When you hear the phrase ‘She won’t let me see the children’ what do you think?

[Gardenerboo]

This is my ex husband’s narrative to anyone who will listen and it’s simple not the case.

We have 2 teenagers who have (at present) chosen not to see him following abuse.

Although my priority is obviously the children, I have moments where I feel angry at the injustice of what he is telling people. I know it shouldn’t matter, but it’s hard.

I wouldn't believe it, I would think that teenagers can make their own minds up and it's not up to you to make that decision either way. I tend not to believe anything without hearing both sides of a story.

I am currently on the receiving end of some terrible untruths that my ex is saying about me and have lost many friends who have blindly chosen to believe him without hearing what I might have to say.

There are women who use contact to abuse their ex but the numbers will be much less than the men who abuse their ex and/or kids or can't/won't be bothered with getting up to 50% contact. I nod along but don't take it at face value- especially if the kids are teenagers or adults so have ways of contacting dad if they wanted.

I think any man that says the ex won’t let him see the children is a lying shitebag who is a complete waste of space as a father OP. It’s an excuse trotted out by crappy men that don’t want to bother going through court if their ex genuinely won’t let them see the kids and an outright lie by abusive bastards that should never be within 10 foot of kids.

I'd think "bullshit" - if a dad wants to see his kids enough and actually makes an effort to do so, an exW wouldn't be able to stop him.

i would never trust someone who didn’t see their kids.
If my kids were living with someone else, who was making it hard for me to see them, I would fight for contact beyond any imagining. I would camp outside, I would beg and plead, I would go to court - literally anything. I can’t imagine a day when I would think “ah fuck it, I’m done, I just won’t see my kids again”. That would never happen.

I have known one single case where the ex genuinely weaponised the kid and refused access. She went the whole hog and threatened to make Faldo accusations of Rae and child abuse to the police if he tried (she freely admitted they would be lies). He kept in surreptitious touch via a related kid in his class until his son was old enough to establish contact for himself.

I have known many, many cases of mums trying to get worthless fathers to see their kids. Some pay, some don't, none could be arsed to put their kids ahead of their own desire for free time.

💯

“I don’t want to bother with the kids, it’s too much hassle and anyway that’s women’s work.”

If a man did that it would lead to a restraining order and harrassment charges.

My immediate response is “and what are you doing to save your children from this abuse ?”

Here’s the unhappy reality. One parent can do all they can to alienate their children from their other parent. While the other parent sits and feels sorry for themself. Like they are the numero uno victim. Wallow in the sympathy they can garner. Raise not so much as finger to protect their kids. Because that is not the road that offers least resistance and maximum sympathy.

I'd think there was a lot more to it.

This https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I5VaPQflLq0

Raised eyebrows at his comment at the very least. Sorry you are having to put up with this.

Usually A) I am sure that it is as not as straightforward as just they won't allow contact usually there is good reason and B) where there is genuinely a parent preventing contact with no good reason, so what are you doing about it? You cannot just wait for it to fall in your lap, if you are that bothered you need to proactively take steps for it.

I’d think it’s possibly true but also possibly not true.
I know someone’s ex who was just a plain prick, stopping contact because she didn’t like it that he moved on etc
Everyone shouts court but it costs thousands upon thousands when the ex is vile and constantly sends emails and letters to the solicitors to rack up the bills (he got charged for every letter received about his case)

I reserve judgement for when I actually know the person.

My ex told everyone I was stopping him seeing his son as I had the audacity to tell him to pick a day to come and see him and actually turn up, he said that was unreasonable. He wanted to just come over whenever he liked without notice but also to break plans without notice. Choosing a day and sticking to it might interfere with his social life, I mean, what if he found something better to do? It was unfair to make him potentially miss out on something good, it's not like I had anything else to do as I was a full time mum!

He also said he'd turn up on my son's 18th birthday to tell him what a bitch I am. My son is in his 20s now and still no sign, I guess he found something better to do again. Must be one hell of a party!

I think they can't have made much effort to change that. It's practically impossible for a mother to stop contact unless there is a lot of evidence that the father is a danger to the kids. And even then, clear red flags are often overlooked.

Even in the rare case where the mother is withholding contact maliciously, all it would take is an application to family court. If the father is to incompetent or lazy to manage that, the kids are better off without him.

I think of my niece who made it as difficult as possible for her ex to see their son, just because she no longer wanted to be with him.

I'm sure there are mums out there who do alienate, but honestly any man who phrased it like 'she won't let me see the kids' would trigger alarm bells, I would sort of expect a decent man to phrase it as 'we are struggling to communicate/agree on access at the moment so I'm due in court on xx date' - and that's probably a bit unfair of me.
Anyone whose like 'she won't let me see the kids' in real life I've known are honestly all the same, dad's who think being a good parent is playing football with his son and taking his daughter to the toy shop, who think two evenings a week and every other weekend is a perfectly acceptable amount of time to spend with their kids, who spent the majority of their annual leave to go on holidays with their mates/girlfriend even though they have school aged kids who need childcare over school holidays, who book holidays (without the kids) over contact time then just tell their ex they are away, who will fight over being asked to contribute to new uniforms,hobbies etc but then be off on holiday or have a new toy every other week, who take their kids round to their parents basically so they can avoid doing any parenting, who are constantly on at their kids over not doing things they 'should' be doing, then complain they are 'playing up and instead of oh, I don't know, asking others for advice or researching, just getting angrier and angrier that their kids aren't doing what THEY think kids should be doing, introducing their kids to new girlfriends after a couple of weeks so they can look like dad of the year PLUS rope the new woman into entertaining them on contact time.... I could go on

Very much he’s the problem and when I hear women say their new man is amazing but his ex is a bitch who won’t let him see the children I want to slap her.

Of course there are some women who make it difficult and are total bitches but I agree with whoever said 90% of the time it’s down to the bloke if he’s not seeing his kids.

My husband’s brother is weaponising the “she won’t let me see the kid” with his soon to be ex-wife. Both me and DH think good on soon to be ex-wife, that child needs stability and he isn’t providing that at the moment. As far as I’m aware he’s not abusive (obviously only for his side) and so no reason the courts wouldn’t grant access but he can’t even be arsed to start the court process. It’s a convenient lie to gloss over the fact that he wasn’t an involved parent, only wanted to be there for the good bits and can’t put his kid first for even a moment.

As PP said, the starting position in a divorce or separation is that the children should have regular contact with both parents.

I know someone whose partner left her suddenly when her child was a baby and didn't have any contact for a couple of years. I believe there was domestic abuse. Then he suddenly started demanding access, despite having made his child homeless as a baby and not had any contact for two years. Even then CAFCASS and the courts were pushing for him to have access, which my friend was willing to agree to but she wanted it to be supervised, in a contact centre, and she didn't know what to do about the fact that she didn't want to see him, because of the abuse, but didn't want her child to be traumatised by contact with their absent father if she wasn't there.

Another person I know (actually an ex) was married and his wife left him when she was pregnant. She didn't even inform him of their child's birth until a few days later when she had already registered them. So the child had the mother's surname (which I don't disagree with in principle) and the mother's choice of very silly first and middle names. He had no input at all, and would have liked to at least choose a middle name. I'm quite sure that his now ex wife would have left him off the birth certificate altogether if they hadn't still been married. He's had a huge battle over contact with his child and other issues like the fact that he wants the child to be vaccinated against childhood illnesses but the mother doesn't. But he persisted and he has regular contact and a seemingly good relationship with his child.

I would tend to assume that if a father doesn't see his child, the most likely reason is that he hasn't made any effort to see them or that he js abusive or that the mother has ignored court ordered arrangements and for whatever reason he has not gone back to court to enforce it. There are always outlier cases but in general the courts will encourage regular contact between fathers and their children unless there is a very good reason not to (and sometimes even if there is a good reason not to), and so it is likely that most men saying they've been stopped from seeing their kids aren't telling the whole story.

Personally it's a big red flag.

As pp's have already said 50/50 is the start point for access so if someone is not getting any contact there is a reason why not that is likely to be far more complex than one parent being a refusenik.

Actually this has just reminded me of a school dad who was bitching and moaning to me he missed out on his DDs first sports day because his ex didn’t tell him when it was. I pointed out it was on the newsletter had been for about 2 months, but apparently his ex gets the emails, so I said the newsletter is on class dojo every week, so we’re lots of posts to remind parents, o his ex gets that..hmmmm I said no any parent can download it both my DH and I have it, his response “o the ex didn’t tell me that” I also pointed out its on the school twitter account anyone can see and school website no parental logins required.

He quickly moved on to another parent he thought would be more sympathetic.

I would never ever ever be with a man who had no contact with previous children. Just a major red flag whatever the situation.
Someone I know recently married and had a kid with a man who wasn’t allowed contact with his previous 2 kids. What planet is she on.

I remember one of dhs friends when we first met, he was about 19 and used to wind on about never seeing his baby daughter cause his ex was jealous of his new relationship/wanted to play happy families with her new fella/wanted more maintenance (later found out he wasn't actually paying maintenance).

I used to think ah poor lad until the excuses kept coming and any suggestion (fighting it in court) was turned away with whatever stupid reason he thought of ('I want to get a solid job and my driving licence first, make myself look as good as I can' ). 10 years on and he still doesn't see her (or have a job or driving licence) and now has three more children the 'mother doesn't allow him to see' 🙄

All that to say - - now I just tut, say ah and wonder what the woman's story is!