When you hear the phrase ‘She won’t let me see the children’ what do you think?

[Gardenerboo]

This is my ex husband’s narrative to anyone who will listen and it’s simple not the case.

We have 2 teenagers who have (at present) chosen not to see him following abuse.

Although my priority is obviously the children, I have moments where I feel angry at the injustice of what he is telling people. I know it shouldn’t matter, but it’s hard.

I would always wonder why rather than assume the ex is withholding access out of spite.

I'd assume there was good reason why he wasn't allowed to see the kids.

In fact the only person I know who used this narrative (married someone I know) ended up being charged with voyeurism after being caught taking naked photos of his step daughter...

I don't think I'd ever take that on face value. Depending on what the bloke seemed like, I'd either think that he was a deadbeat who couldn't be bothered to see his kids, or yes he was being prevented for good reason.

I don't put much thought into why. But admittedly I think if I did, I would assume a bitter ex wife using kids as a weapon.

49.95% - yeah right. You feckless wastrel of a father
49.95% - i wonder what kind of abuse she and your children were subjected to.
0.1% - maybe its legit but significantly more info needed

I would presume that either he is abusive, or he can't be bothered.

If the person earns good money, I would be a little suspicious. If they are low waged, living in poor accommodation, I wouldn't be so surprised. There is no help for single males in housing, etc. ( usually the NRP)
Parental alienation is real and far more common than MN recognises. Mothers can and do ignore court orders. Otherwise well looked after children are not going to be removed from a resident parent and handed to one living in a houseshare. The resident parent will get top-up benefits to keep a roof over their heads, and non-resident gets nothing.

Red flags would wave, though, as regardless, there would be drama all round.

I immediately wonder if he’s a danger to children, or was violent to his ex.

I used to think he would be an abuser, especially having worked in a domestic violence unit.
However, DH (who is a loving, kind, man who's worse quality is failing to wash up brilliantly) had years of DSS not being allowed to see him on and off. When it's suited her he would have him more than 50% off the time, but then would cut contact for weeks. His ex would some times stop all contact or say she was moving abroad. She didn't give him PR until he was 10 (this was before the law changed). For about 4 years he gave her cash, so as not to affect her benefits (again long ago). She would use it against him and say she would go to the CSA.
Most the time it was amicable, I would do most of the communication as we got on better. But she would turn and deny access. Solicitors would quote about 4k (we had not even half that) to get a court order but advised us i
might not follow it and little would happen.

I also had a friend who was a very complicated character for so we are no longer friends at she was very difficult. Over a couple of years I watched her alienate her teenage daughter against her ex. Horrible to watch. I knew her ex first and he was a decent bloke. She lied about everything and has been in court twice for fraud. Poor kid. Poor ex.

I have however seen far far more terrible behaviour by men towards their exes.

I'd think it was far more likely that they don't see him for a good reason. I do know a case where the mother has been abusive, though she lost custody anyway, but I know far more cases where the father is.

Stbxh has told his friends and work mates all sorts about me, he criticises me to the kids and bullies them if don't agree with him. It does hurt, it is hard, it is unfair after everything he's put us through. It doesn't always help, but when I'm feeling angry or sad about what he's doing I try to focus on what matters. People that are fooled by him don't matter. My DC and getting them through this with their mental health intact matters.

There’s only one man I know who was actively denied access by the ex wife.

every other one though there has been a reason and 9/10 times it’s because they just cannot be arsed either in time or money. Usually because he’s got a new girlfriend and he’d rather see her than use the weekend to see the kids.

I know men who see their kids at the weekend but often the kids are looked after by grandmother so dad can still do hobbies so he’s still not really doing any co parenting. He’s just facilitating transport between mum and grandmother.

Same with my ex.

Annoyingly women would very often encourage him to “fight” to see the children. Totally not understanding that every new gf did that, every new gf helped him when he got access (courts are shit and repeatedly picking up and dropping your children is acceptable), and then when they realised he was a dickhead and dumped him it was me who got to pick up the pieces when he abandoned the girls again.

Exactly the same has happened at least a dozen times in the last 20 odd years.

That’s he’s done something major to warrant that. I work with two men that say the same, one is heavily involved in drugs and the other is a functioning alcoholic so that alone would make them only be suitable for supervised visits.
I have a friend who stopped the dad seeing the kids because he always let them down by cancelling last minute and having no routine or structure as to when they would see him.

I've seen both sides. Some women are awful, vindictive, bring another man along to play daddy, whilst clealy alienating the bio dad. Some are genuinely abused, father is abusive, drugs and alcohol involved. Really can't judge the whole picture without all details..

My first thought would be why?

So many woman I know date new blokes who slag off their exs, don't see their kids. But all the ones who are not allowed to see their kids turn out there's are extremely good reasons.

Sadly a lot of women I know do fall for the "poor bloke, ex sounds alfwul" until they cheat on them and disown their kids and then move onto to next woman as the victim..

One friend was gushing that her bf had married his ex out of pity for her. Who thinks that's attractive?

The one guy who wasn't lieing that he wasn't allowed to see his kids. Now in prison for gbh. There are few reasons why men genuinely can not see their children and they are not good reasons

First I'd think "yea right, I bet you choose not to"
Then I'd think "that's a bit unfair. Some women do stop their exes for no reason"
Then I'd think "that's rare though. I bet you can't be bothered"

My own experience of this was ex telling his family I'd banned him from seeing the DCs, then his family calling me/ sending abusive messages about how awful I was.

I pointed out to them, truthfully, that I hadn't banned him from seeing them at all. He just couldn't see them that particular Saturday as we were on holiday. I had instead offered him any day he wanted the following week. He didn't take me up on that offer.

I think he's a deadbeat dad, a liar and was probably abusive

I think "that's probably because you're a dick and have been an awful parent".

I think “must be a good reason, very rarely do women stop good dads seeing their kids”.

My ex would probably have said this of me. The reality was/is that he is a spoilt selfish alcoholic narcissistic mummy's boy and his mummy is the same.
Ample opportunities for his side of the family to engage with my DCs but they couldn't be arsed
Grandad more interested in his step kids than his bio kids.
Do I and my now adult DCs care?
No we dont

A work colleague used to say this all the time. His ex wife was a friend of a friend. He wanted every other weekend and one day in the week, seems fair except he only wanted those days if there was no football on, as he wanted to keep his season ticket. Oh and not during the sis nations either! She told him no it was consistent or nothing. He chose nothing

I always think it would be interesting to hear her side of the story. My mum used to work for a firm of lawyers and they would deal with these cases - there were deadbeat fathers who played the system and caused the mum and children no end of distress, and there were deadbeat women who did the same to the fathers who were perfectly reasonable men who wanted to have a good relationship with their kids and vice versa.

Unless I have more facts I don't think or assume anything. There are loads of men who are complete twats but unfortunately there are lots of women who are too. Lots of woman don't want their ex's to have a relationship with their Dad and make it impossible for them to see them.

There are plenty of MN posts that confirm this.

Abuser, control freak, nasty, narcissistic.

I assume that they’re at best useless dads who don’t make an effort for their children, and at worst they are abusive. Either way it’s a big huge red flag.

I used to side with men, think “poor thing to have such a mean ex”, but time and experience has shown me that I’m not one case that I know of was the woman at fault of alienation, which is inevitably part of the script.

Dd learnt this young - she went out with a young man, he had a 4 yr old at 20 and was only allowed supervised contact. Dd fell for it hook line and sinker, thought what a good dad he was, how loving, and how sad to
be kept away from his son by his psycho ex.
It didn’t take long for his true colours to come through, showing that he was an absolute nightmare to his poor ex, cheated on her, took cocaine every weekend, emotionally abused her and their son, and what little money he sent he demanded receipts and full breakdown of what she’d used it for.
Too many young women fall for it. By the time you’ve lived a while you get wise to it.