DH’s brutal take on self love

[SpectacularSalt]

Looking for suggestions on how to deal with a big issue that’s affecting my marriage. It’s been like this for about a year or so and things aren’t changing. I’m at a loss at what to do it say.
DH has had a kind of ‘moment’ in his head when he turned 50 whereby he has decided he’s put up with negative people who criticise him for too long. He decided that he has the right to just not take ‘their shit anymore’. And that was it. He changed. This change has been demonstrated in his behaviour towards all manner of things, but has caused the most difficulty for me in that he refuses to:

• compromise with me on anything as that involves a degree of personal sacrifice/negativity for himself. The most tricky one in this for me was an online friendship he started with a single woman. When their public messaging on social media began to include calling each other gorgeous and sending heart emojis, I really began to worry what they were sending each other privately. He wasn’t willing to compromise on this friendship as talking to her made him happy and I was out of order and putting myself first for asking him to stop messaging her (since it was upsetting me).
• speak to any of my family. He’s cut them out as they make him unhappy. He can’t see that this makes life very difficult for me and is annoyed that I question his right not to see them/socialise with them etc
• For a period he refused to speak to him own mum as their political views are not aligned. He’s softened on this as she’s now terminally ill.
• Doesn’t like me talking about our relationship problems with anyone, not even my best friend of 30 years.

He also spends lots of time online, with lots of different profiles, arguing with strangers to make sure his view on the world is heard.

When I try to talk to him about the impact of all of this on me he says I’m not supporting him to stand up for himself and that I should be backing him. He’s also refused to see any of our friends who he thinks I’ve talked to about his behaviour as he thinks I’ve lied to them about his mindset and painted myself as a victim.
So for the past year or so I’ve gone to all friends and family meet ups with the kids, but alone. But this just makes him more pissed off with me. I don’t know what I’m supposed to do here. He says that he’s not putting up with anyone if it doesn’t make him happy, but it seems like the reverse is happening. He’s getting more and more unhappy and can’t understand why I’m not celebrating this life change he’s made. Is he just working up to telling me that I’m the cause of his unhappiness?
He works shifts and only gets the occasional weekend off, so often we are on different time tables. This makes it very difficult to talk. Plus we have 3 kids in the mix too.
What do I do? How can I see things from his perspective?

Is he trying to get her to sort out issues for him? Or does he just not want to be around them?

It doesn't sound like he's asked her to sort anything out, he's just saying he doesn't want to be around those people.

If I didn't want to see my partners family again then I wouldn't see them again. There's no 'issue' to sort so my partner wouldn't be stepping up to sort anything out.

But rather that he is using the OP as a shield to do whatever he wants instead.

Such as?
Obviously the emotional affair is completely wrong and I would have left him for that anyway.

But apart from that what is it that he's actually doing apart from cutting people out of his life that he doesn't want to speak to? I am genuinely confused.

And HOW is he using the OP as a shield?
I don't see any mention of anything like that such as him asking her to make excuses.

Yet seems to display all the self centred selfishness of someone very very rightwing. Individualism not society.

He could easily be being brainwashed by online evil that tells him to cut people off if they slight you, once you are isolated IRL you are much easier to further influence, watch the videos, go on notice boards, they just want his attention, they get paid ads.

He thinks he's a bit of a cut above everyone else? Perhaps. Yet he is so unsure about his opinion he creates numerous accounts, so he can log in and "back himself up online". If he was that brilliant one twitter account should suffice.

He is letting SM dictate his, your, your kids, your family and friends lives. He's an idiot. And sounds like he is doubling down so you can't challenge his dumbness you have to excuse it.

Honestly the best way you can help everyone is to be honest. Tell him you aren't going to excuse him or lie.

If he has to keep so much of his life a secret it's probably not a life you should be living.

No need to argue, if he asks "who you been seeing, what you talk about" say you first, what you been tapping who you talking to.

If pressed further say you haven't told anyone anything that isn't true.

If pressed further say you have been engaging with people who make your life better (you can avoid the word happy).

If pressed further you can say saw sister. You can tell him lots you spoke about that isn't him. In fact you can just get to the point of not discussing him with your family. You can also tell him that. Say they know you won't come they have stopped asking now.

Men hate being ignored. So if he knows he is no longer even an interesting passing observation he can stop asking.

At this point you can ask again, your turn, who you been tapping out messages to? Any interesting conversations?

And if he still won't tell you remember and next time he asks you say no no you first, you always expect me to tell you and never tell me so you go first this time.

Repeat etc etc etc

Bore/ignore him into realising you are not going to be controlled or dictated to by his utterly irrational demands.

If he starts shouting let him run out of steam and calmly say OK.

No longer be a go-between and stop letting the conversation at home be all about him too.

There:
'Why isn't he here?'
'You'll have to ask him. That is an amazing cake - who made it?'

Back at the ranch:
'What did you say about me?'
'Nothing. I think that we were distracted by an amazing cake - you should have seen it!'

It sounds as if he feeds off the reactions of your family and your concern about his reaction to them. Bore him with grey rock responses on this.

'Grey rock' is also good advice if he tends to shout and twist your words.

If you wait - he will probably change again.
Is he worth the wait? Does the emotional affair change how you feel about him? Do you actually want the old him back... or is it not so different from the man of the day?

@SpectacularSalt sometimes the left and the right meet around the back.

My DH is a bit like this. Very liberal etc. but can go a bit conspiracy loco about data harvesting etc, meanwhile berating his brother for believing anti-vax YouTube videos.

Imagine not needing to deal with this.

You don't have to.

Re-read the words of the marriage service. It's very clear - all the expectations are mutual.

Well he could have progressed from an emotional affair to a full relationship with another woman so disentangling himself from his old life. He may plan to move away so won't need this social)/family network anymore.

My DILs father did this. He cut himself off from his children, family and friends for a younger woman. Fast forward 16 years they've heard that he is in poor health, living in a flat with second wife, permanently retired, his wife supporting them both.

@MumGMT what he’s doing is causing arguments about the people he’s cut out because he seems to think there is no difficulty in me both supporting his reasons to cut them out and still be able to maintain a relationship with the cut out people. I can’t even mention these people without it triggering him. So for example I saw my sister on BH Monday. When I got home he was snippy about everything I said about the day, things like ‘Well I hope she had enough money’ and other things like ‘Oh she always gets what she wants. Life must be lovely being her’ etc etc until I got so fed up I asked him to stop. He brewed on it for a day. Then my mum called on Tuesday to discuss this family birthday thing. This caused him to flip and start another row about it and how he doesn’t intend on going and that I need to make that clear and can they stop infringing on our time etc etc.

I know. But he sees this as me not being able to compromise. Not him. That’s what I’m trying to fathom.

Well you won’t will you? Because it’s not logical.

Leave him to it, get on with your own life, and when and if he decides he wants to play ball again you can choose whether to let him or not.

@SpectacularSalt he's trying to isolate you from your family. It doesn't matter how he's doing it, that's what he's doing.

He can do what he likes but he cannot expect you to follow suit, or be difficult if you don't. That is emotional abuse.

You don't have to convince each other who is right.

You don't have the understand his behaviour.

You don't have to make him see sense.

You just have to be clear that it is not acceptable to you.

Then my mum called on Tuesday to discuss this family birthday thing. This caused him to flip and start another row about it and how he doesn’t intend on going and that I need to make that clear and can they stop infringing on our time etc etc.

But it isn't 'our' time is it, its your time that is taken up by the conversation, not his because he isn't communicating with them. The 'our time' gives me shudders if I am honest, what he is saying is that any communication you have with your family has an impact on him, so you should stop doing it when he is around. Which is a slippery slope and not one I would be willing to go down.

My DH can be a bit like this sometimes. He suddenly has an issue with something so illogical and random.

However things got a lot better when I just started ignoring it and carrying on as normal, rather than having a conversion about it.

People can't be reasoned out if things they weren't reasoned into.

100%

Just get a solicitor and start proceedings. I don't know how anyone could live like this

Your children (if you have them)ust think he has lost his mind

Where are YOUR wants and needs in all of this OP? It's all about him.

Everything is about him. Where do you factor? You're spending all your time trying to figure him out when you should really be trying to figure out if you can live with this new version of your husband. It doesn't really matter why he's done this, what mattes is if you can live with it.

I guess living with it is the heart of the issue.
I’ve basically told him that I cannot live with him cutting everyone out as it’s causing arguments- between us and between me and my friends and family.
He’s told me that he’s not willing to compromise on that because he doesn’t put up with anyone’s shit anymore.
So is that what kills our marriage? We’ve been together for 23 years.

Plenty of people are in that situation though.

Their partner doesn't talk to their family, they accept it even though they don't like it and they keep the relationships separate. And if talking about the people triggers their partner they just don't talk about them. While it would be great to be able to listen to your day with your family most people don't like hearing stories about people they don't like. It can of course be triggering to hear about someone who irritates you.

You said yourself you moan after the phone calls with your mother.

Years ago my exes mother was a nightmare struggling with an alcohol problem who said some vicious things. I didn't want to talk to her. My ex accepted that. He still took calls from her and had plenty to moan about but didn't to me because he knew at that time I couldn't deal with her or hearing about her.

This caused him to flip and start another row about it and how he doesn’t intend on going and that I need to make that clear

Is he annoyed at the fact you've been making excuses for why he doesn't go to things instead of just saying he's not going?

You should of course be able to take phone calls and go to the events yourself without him moaning about them but it does sound like a lot of it is caused because you keep bringing them up too and moaning about the phone calls etc. with a person he doesn't want to hear about.

Can you not try to compromise so that you see them and talk on the phone whenever, but that he doesn't have to and doesn't have to hear you moaning about the phone calls or details about the family he doesn't want to listen to? And in return he just stops complaining about them and arguing about them?

Or does your version of compromise mean that he has to see and have a relationship with your family?

@SpectacularSalt

When I got home he was snippy about everything I said about the day, things like ‘Well I hope she had enough money’ and other things like ‘Oh she always gets what she wants. Life must be lovely being her’ etc etc until I got so fed up I asked him to stop. He brewed on it for a day. Then my mum called on Tuesday to discuss this family birthday thing. This caused him to flip and start another row about it and how he doesn’t intend on going and that I need to make that clear and can they stop infringing on our time etc etc.

Read my earlier post then tell him that since you have decided he is right and that you, too, are 'not putting up with shit' and are 'entitled to be happy' that he needs to shut up because his words are shit and making you UNhappy so you don't want to hear them. And that you have no intention of 'making anything clear' to your family because that would cause you stress and unhappiness. So if he wants things 'made clear' to them he can disrupt his own 'happiness' to tell them himself. Oh, and that it's no longer 'our time', it's 'his time' and 'your time' because you are both pursuing your own happinesses.

Honestly, I'm pretty much 90% serious with this, unless you have good reason to be afraid of him, either physically or emotionally. Fight fire with fire. Or leave because you are absolutely justified in doing that. Because he is NOT going to change. Why should he when he's getting everything he wants?

@MumGMT

I see it like this. I can never mention any of my family, any plans I might have to see them or any news about their lives. The same for the friends he’s deemed to be in cahoots with me (particularly my closest friend), who have never said or done anything to upset him? I just have to pretend they don’t exist? And that’s normal?

But it’s not that that has killed your 23 year marriage, it’s his complete change of personality and refusal to think about anyone else’s needs or feelings. Not to mention the cheating.

You’re talking through your arse ! He’s abusive and OP is lonely because he’s basically checked out of the marriage and is carrying on an emotional affair online under the OP’s nose. He’s behaving like a complete arsehole, he wants OP to accept this as the new norm and he’s also isolating her by objecting to her confiding in anyone else about what he’s doing. Why are you defending him ?

You’re doing your best to blame the OP. Why ?

One day I hope you wake up and say enough is enough and make plans to leave and live a peaceful life with your children At the moment you are trying to understand him and hoping for change it is not going to happen.Don’t waste any more time on him ignore and make plans for your new life.You are flogging a dead horse.Good luck.

Why does he think that about your friends? I asked but I don't think you responded to that part?

Has he been asking if you were talking to your friends about him or did you tell him you were or how did that whole situation go down?

Well I know a lot of people who don't talk to family etc. I know a couple of groups of sisters where some of the sisters have fallen out.....they wouldn't hide that they were going to spend the day with them or anything but they don't pass on news or give them a run down of what happened because the other sisters don't want to know any stories about them.

@Rosscameasdoody

I'd leave him for the emotional affair but genuinely don't understand why he's wrong for not wanting to be around her family...and it seems like a lot of the arguments arise because the OP won't accept that he doesn't want to be around them again.