Affairs

[Theanswersalemon]

People who begin new relationships by cheating on their spouse/paerner end up "trading down" from their spouse. Often way down. Do you agree, or not?

@Alcemeg no one's said that. Anywhere.

I'm married, and if my husband wasn't meeting my needs or I was unhappy, I'd tell him and either work on it or leave.

I'd never put him through infidelity. Ever. No possible circumstances would arise where I'd consider it best to lie and humiliate and betray someone.

If cheaters choose differently, whatever their motivation, then they've gone about it the wrong way. I think they should own that, otherwise they're not really taking responsibility.

@WorkingOnMyMindset

I think the phrase "Hell Hath no Fury" is designed to describe a woman who has been rejected by a man and may then be ferociously angry and vindictive.

A woman who's husband has an affair hasn't been rejected. She's married to someone who did the opposite of "reject" her. He vowed to love and respect and be faithful to her actually.

Instead he's deceived her, humiliated her, put her at risk, betrayed her and gone out of his way to make sure she doesn't even know.

He's not "scorned" her. "Scorning" her would be an adult conversation where he says he doesn't want to be married anymore. And he treats her with honesty and respect so he can move on with whoever he wants.

Affairs aren't about rejection. OP isn't some saddo teenager crying about the boy who doesn't like her. What mindfuckery is all this.

I don't think that anyone is saying cheating is right. In fact, vast majority of posters are in agreement that affairs are detrimental, cowardly and extremely painful - in many cases with far reaching consequences- to all involved. It is incredibly upsetting, especially if children in the mix.

However, in any given marriage the only people that understand what is going on is the two people in it- not affair partners, friends, colleagues, family. There could be a whole myriad of reasons as to why the cheating happened. And while I agree it is wrong, I don't blanket judge people. I think that's where I have a slight rub with some of the posts that seem so passionately one sided and not willing to listen to another pov. To say all people downgrade, they only want the sex, cheating I the worst form of abuse, that the affair partner must be beneath them etc.... it's all subjective. I really don't believe it's a one size fits all.

And before I get jumped on. I do fundamentally agree that cheating is wrong, I just don't judge the same way as some here.

I agree with you mostly. But unless your spouse is physically abusing you, there's no excuse or justification for having an affair.

Just tell them the truth. They have a right to know and its immensely selfish to deceive someone like that.

@WorkingOnMyMindset "I hope things get better for you soon."

Nice of you to wish me that. I'm happily married to my 2nd husband of 10 years. Can't see how things could be better, really.

@Alcemeg "Sorry OP, I think you need to work on your mindset!"

Thank you for your concerns but your unsolicited advice is 20 years out of date!
When I divorced my first husband for cheating 20 years ago, I did some serious work on myself, learned how to set boundaries, be more assertive and stop being a 'people pleaser'.

I also learned how to not give 2 flying bollocks what other people thought.

This is how I attracted a much better type of husband than the specimen I'd had before - and I didn't have to help break up a marriage to get him.🙂

Good for you @Theanswersalemon . I think your mindset is just great and I'm delighted you have a second husband who makes you happy.

@bingbongbang23 👌

Well hurraaaaaaaahhhhh OP, I am sincerely pleased for you!

But also a bit puzzled about how you can be bothered to get so het up about a circumstance that doesn't even concern you...?!

I proper had you down as a very recent victim of cheating. Where do you find all your wrath? I can hardly summon up that much interest in my own life, let alone other people's 😊

Slightly bemused

There is a thread in relationships board currently 'cheated years ago- should I confess?'

Overwhelming response seems to be no. Take it to your grave and never tell your wife you cheated

And yet, if I looked at this thread, I would have guessed the opposite answer would have been recommended.

Shows how a little bit of background/context can make a huge difference in responses!

I don't think kissing someone 10 years ago before marriage is an affair

@Alcemeg "But also a bit puzzled about how you can be bothered to get so het up about a circumstance that doesn't even concern you...?!"

"I proper had you down as a very recent victim of cheating. Where do you find all your wrath?"

What's with all the emotive language 'het up', 'wrath' ??"

"about a circumstance that doesn't even concern you"

I think that my first marriage going down the chute because of someone else's refusal to "step up to the plate" very much concerns me.

Watching my friends and colleagues lives unravel, seeing them lose their homes, almost their minds, money, lifestyle (that they have contributed to) having their hearts broken, for the same reason does also concern me.

That's because I care about people. Maybe you don't?

If your own life is so boring that you can't 'summon up any interest in it' maybe that explains a lot ?

Gosh 😊

Like you, I had a lousy first marriage and am enjoying a much better second one.

I post quite a bit on MN trying to help women find their way out of similarly abusive relationships to the one I once endured.

But it would never occur to me (especially now, many years later) to invite scathing comment on DH#1 or dismiss him as a human being, or to encourage sweeping statements about abusive husbands. Everyone is different. Yes, he was probably what you'd call "deeply flawed" but life moves on and, like me, he has the capacity to grow and change, and was acting out of his own limitations at the time, just as I was.

I'm curious, do you work as a barrister? or in contract law? You have a very "business transaction" approach when describing what happens in relationships.

If you're still angry about the way things turned out in your first marriage, I do honestly think it might help to read that Daphne Rose Kingma book and work through the exercises at the end. The insights I gained from it really enabled me to let go and move on.

@Alcemeg you said - "I can hardly summon up that much interest in my own life, let alone other people's"

For someone who has little interest in other people's lives, you certainly seem to be taking a big interest in mine!

Maybe I should be flattered that you have such a boring life.

My work is not your concern, so MYOBB.

And who are you to tell me I shouldn't talk about 'D'H1 in scathing terms. Sure he has the capacity to change (as have any of us) but why should he? He's getting all his needs met from his squeeze who has obviously set the bar lower than a snake's belly.

"If you're still angry about the way things turned out in your first marriage, I do honestly think it might help to read that Daphne Rose Kingma book and work through the exercises at the end."

I'm not interested in what you think, so just give it a rest.

I'm not interested in what you think, so just give it a rest.

So why did you start this angry, bilious thread, @Theanswersalemon ?

The OP started a thread to discuss reasoning for infidelity. Many have engaged with that.

Others have gone off on a tangent trying to paint the OP as bitter, with an attitude problem.

She's got every right to be as pissed off as she wants with her cheating ex husband and there's no need to try and belittle her.

Having a spouse have an affair is a lifelong wound. As the saying goes; if her ex husband wanted her to think better of him then he should have behaved better.

There's always a tendency to get snipey with any confident, strong women on here; especially if you're angry.

Women are allowed to be angry. They're allowed to feel however they want about their cheating spouses

The OP started a thread to discuss reasoning for infidelity. Many have engaged with that.

Others have gone off on a tangent trying to paint the OP as bitter, with an attitude problem.

She's got every right to be as pissed off as she wants with her cheating ex husband and there's no need to try and belittle her.

Having a spouse have an affair is a lifelong wound. As the saying goes; if her ex husband wanted her to think better of him then he should have behaved better.

There's always a tendency to get snipey with any confident, strong women on here; especially if you're angry.

Women are allowed to be angry. They're allowed to feel however they want about their cheating spouses

I think this thread shows how PTSD can be triggered by not only your own memories, but also the situations of others going through betrayal, as op has stated that she has seen the destruction of affairs and how it has affected some the people she knows and loves.

Every situation is different, one person's betrayal can be totally different from anothers and the level of hurt is difficult to quantify.
Op's trauma occured over 10 years ago, I know many people whose betrayal lasted way longer than this in terms of how it affected them.

There is no time limit on the affects of betrayal and no handbook that tells someone how long they should be over something. In fact I would say going through something so devastating will make you incredibly passionate about the perpitrators of this type of abuse.

Op, has something triggered you recently for you to write this post.

Well said @MrsMagistrate . I know someone who's wife had an affair and he was quite relieved. The marriage had been dreadful and it was an escape route. He's married much more happily now.

I have met many others who believed they were in loving, safe, secure relationships with their most trusted spouse only to discover astonishing betrayal.

The scale of pain and destruction for some can be completely life changing.

I am happily married to someone else now, and wish no ill on my ex.... after all he lost everything. But the scars he gave me were for life. I still have PTSD, still have nightmares and it stripped years from my life and I lost so much.

If he'd swanned off after all the pain and destruction he caused me and started a lovely new life with OW, I think I'd still be fuming.

As it was, he ruined his own life too. But my feelings are up to me, as are the OPS. It can be one of the most painful and shattering experiences and we have a right to feel however we wish.

It's not a flaw in us.

If you think it is so "angry and bilious", why are you even engaging ?!

You keep posting so obviously it's bugging you.

Maybe there are a lot of mirrors in your house ?

@MrsMagistrate "Op, has something triggered you recently for you to write this post."

Not specifically, no.

But I have seen quite a few 'live' threads on this topic, so I thought I'd add my own, 'with a twist' if you like.

@LemonyTicket "But the scars he gave me were for life. I still have PTSD, still have nightmares and it stripped years from my life and I lostsomuch."

I am very sorry to hear about that, no-one deserves such a situation.

I must admit I do not like the way women'wives are patronised for betrayal affecting them for longer which is deemed necessary by many people, you expect it from men, from ow and women who have never been affected by betrayal but it often comes from women who have themselves been betrayed.

Surely those victims must know there are different circumstances in every case, cheating and betrayal can be a mere blanket term for a devastating period in your life, but there are some for which it is not quite so devastating and for some much more devastating.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for that.

Yes @MrsMagistrate

I remember when I was 26 I had an awful relationship with my baby's Father. He drank, he was unkind and we argued a lot. I remember seeing a text on his phone from another woman that made it clear he'd been unfaithful. I couldn't have given less of a monkeys. I packed my bags, left and never looked back. I don't even really think of it as betrayal as the relationship was so flawed.

When my husband cheated many years later, it devastated me beyond belief. It was worse than a death. Because the relationship was so deeply founded on love, trust and respect.

An injury like that can cause horrific damage, not to mention all the collateral damage like friendships, losing your home, financial security and so on. I look back on it as surviving a tsunami. It was an experience I'd wish for nobody.

Hence I've stood up for OP here. Infidelity by a trusted spouse is on par with rape or domestic violence. The fact the perpetrator enjoyed it or was in luuuuurve a la Matt Hancock makes absolutely no difference.

We all have choices and lying to and betraying the person who trusts you most in the world is a terrible choice and the victim, not perpetrator, deserves empathy for however long they need it.

Infedelity is never just isolated though, is it.
It often goes hand in hand with abuse, domestic violence, mental health issues, sexual diseases and god forbid worse, which the police know full well can be a direct link with infedelity.

Emotions run incredibly high, not just for one evening like violence on a night out, the home becomes a pressure cooker with couples exploding on a regular occurance and even extended families becoming involved.
Children are always affected, work suffers, finances suffer, people have lost jobs through not being able to function and houses lost with an inability to keep up.

It affects all areas of your life.
I've seen some terrible outcomes because of adultery, the fact that society minimises it, is an even bigger blow to the victims with the usual affects of there not being much support out there for the betrayed.

I really don't know of any situation whereby you feel you are continually being kicked in the stomach and have to slap a smile on your face whilst it's happening.

Oh absolutely @MrsMagistrate . It would be unthinkable that you'd say to a woman "aren't you over it yet?" if a beloved husband had died, or "why are you so bitter towards your ex?" if he'd hit her.

But I've had a partner die; my fiance passed away when I was much younger and it was truly devastating, but it was very different. Everyone allowed my grief. No one judged me for the days I couldn't get out of bed, and ultimately he hadn't betrayed me or deliberately harmed or traumatised me - so it didn't affect me mentally in the same way.

My husband knew all this, he knew my history and he gently coaxed me back to life and then once I felt truly happy and okay again, he ripped the rug from under me. There's no way to describe that feeling. The utter bewilderment, confusion and all the trauma that surrounds it.

The infidelity was much more traumatic. And on top of that, no one understands. They just expect you to get over it. There's no cards of sympathy, no casseroles brought over, no "infidelity leave" from work.

You're just expected to say "shit happens", and really it doesn't. People say we're not wired for monogamy and I completely disagree. We're wired for family. For trust. To depend on others to feel safe. We're wired to bond, and if we have done so deeply and its violated; its one of the hardest things to go through.

I've also met many men who've suffered horrifically from this. It's obviously not just women, but society does still seem to hold us up to these 1950s standards doesn't it?