Affairs

[Theanswersalemon]

People who begin new relationships by cheating on their spouse/paerner end up "trading down" from their spouse. Often way down. Do you agree, or not?

@WorkingOnMyMindset such a considered answer. That sounded like a really special relationship you had together, so sorry you lost him.

Thank you @PimpMyFridge . Yes, it was very ordinary from the outside, but special to us. 💜

I laughed as well because it's so predictable

I was waiting for the "I'm sooo embarrassed for you" - I haven't seen that one for a while.

It seems like I have inadvertently uncorked the black hole of blind hatred created by OWs who never 'got their man', in tandem with OWs who got him and then found out he was a dud.
At least if they're spewing bile on here they aren't boiling someone's bunny

😂

Bit of a citrus agreement going on there, Lemon and Tangerine.

The rest of us are maybe less acidic.

But I’m sorry this has happened to you. 💐

@WorkingOnMyMindset no need for you to be sorry.
But I do prefer grapefruit to lemon when I'm not on tangerines.

@cannaecookrisotto 👌

@Theanswersalemon

😂 Just because people disagree with you does not mean they are the 'OW' camp, and it's stopping them from 'boiling bunnies'

It could be they just don't agree with you, and feel you are being a tad blinkered in your views 🤷‍♀️

"Honestly, I feel for you. You seem very bitter," was what you said.

So why are you still trying to engage with me?

If I am so 'bitter' as you say why not leave me alone to 'suck a lemon' as one other nasty poster said.

Why not sit on the sofa and eat some jammy dodgers?

I don't think there's a pattern at all tbh, but in truth if i had to call it, id say the opposite. Certainly in the cheaters opinion.
I've known people cheat because they've had an opportunity to do so with someone they would have never believed would be interested in them, and temptation proved too great.
I've known men who developed obsessive interest in 'aspirational' women and pursued them, sometimes successfully, sometimes not (but the attempt to cheat is as bad, isn't it?)
I've known people who cheated because they felt very much they were 'trading up', as in moving on to someone more suited to them who made them happier. In the eyes of the world the new partner may have been 'worse', but the cheat didn't think so, and its in the eye of the beholder.
My own experience many years ago was to be cheated on for a woman who was an older but more polished version of me. Better looking, better job, wealthier.
I'm not sure it's something to get hung up on though. It's a very subjective concept. The most important thing is that whatever the betrayed person goes on to do, they will certainly have traded up from living with a cheat.

Thanks for your balanced input and for getting the discussion back on track.

I am looking forward to some more erudite postings from your good self.

I think it depends a lot of the reasoning for having the affair. I do this it's a very common phenomenon and this is how it works:

The person who decides to cheat is motivated by some void inside themselves, some level of self-loathing that makes ego kibbles of someone else's attention appealing.

Quite often the people most willing to give ego kibbles and endless attention to someone married, are themselves a complete fuck up with similar self-loathing.

The fact that the affair partner is sort of "beneath" them, can have an added effect of making the cheater feel good about themselves.

I have seen a lot of men who had affairs behind the backs of great women, with affair partners who were clearly less successful, less physically attractive, less appealing by age, less good of character. I have also seen a lot of cases where the affair partner has some kind of problems: alcoholism, personality disorders, anxious attachment.

Basically anything that makes them a bit desperate and shower the cheater in admiration so their void can be filled and they can feel loved and appreciated and special.

Often in these cases the affair partner is someone the cheater would never look at as a potential spouse or serious relationship, but they can become almost addicted to the needs the person meets.

My husband cheated with a woman from work, 20 years my senior, looked like a man, very dramatic, chaotic and with a serious drinking problem. No one could understand it, but I think her being a complete mess was the appeal.

Of course there are some affairs where two people just meet, get on and boundaries are crossed and these are probably people who just happened to meet when they were attached to others

@bingbongbang23

Honestly, I feel for you. You seem very bitter, but belittling other women and talking about them as downgrades in terms of career/looks etc feels very cruel

I completely disagree. Read the posts here. They are full of people who are saying "I cheated and it was an upgrade".

It has nothing to do with "belittling" women or men. There's a broad range of reasons that make a partner an "upgrade" or "downgrade" and a lot of those have absolutely nothing to do with career or looks.

If you have an affair and leave your spouse for them, then for you it is an upgrade - or you wouldn't have done it. That might mean the woman is uglier, less successful but a lot more fun or you just love her.

Those kinds of affairs seem to me to be about leaving an otherwise unhappy marriage - or "exit affairs" as they're known in the industry.

A lot of people have affairs with no intention of any kind of leaving their spouse for the AP, and when this happens, a "downgrade" is common. Not necessarily about look, but as an overall picture this person is often oferring a power dynamic which makes the cheater feel good.

Eg:

They might have emotional problems that make him feel a hero
They might have low self-esteem that makes them chase after him
The might be younger that makes him feel worshipped

I think what they're trying to achieve is feeling good, and quite often someone who feels beneath you can make you feel that way.

Hi all , im not sure what im looking for here, maybe different opinions maybe just to vent but here goes…..
i (43F) have been with my partner (43M) 29 years (childhood sweethearts) we share 4 children together. Weve had more than our fair share of ups and downs and for the most part have came through them all together. Well last night my OH confessed to having received oral s** from my cousin (36F) and him touching her ……17 years ago!!! I am devastated, about the act, the continuous lie, all of it, i honestly dont know how to process it all! The weird part is 17 years ago i found messages that insinuated stuff had gone on but after a hellish time and speaking to them both they both denied it was anything other than sexting!! I knew deep down in my gut something had happened but chose to forgive as there was so much going on at that time (between us as a couple and in the family) i didnt want to hurt my children any further or throw a bomb into my very close family! The thing is i forgave it then but i didnt know definitely, now i know what happened and i feel sick to my stomach knowing this , i feel so betrayed and hurt…..so angry he couldnt have been honest earlier (he says it was through fear of losing me) that ive sat with her (the cousin) in my house /at functions/ babysat for her and i feel so stupid knowing she knew what she’d done with him and all the while knowing i was in the dark! How do i sit in the same room as her ever again, how do look at him the same way, the said cousin is know to be very manipulative and spent years trouble making but that doesn't excuse his actions! I feel so overwhelmed with it all i just dont know what to do or how to feel right now, im glad he was finally honest but honestly its broken my heart!

@Theanswersalemon

A bit of support here, because it's like Mumsnet bingo with this "you sound bitter" and "don't knock other women".

Here's the truth: If someone shagged your husband you're perfectly entitled to be as pissed off and mean as you like about it. It's a complete shit sandwich and you're

Heres' the second truth: Anyone who says "you sound bitter" sounds bitter themselves

Heres' the third truth: Telling women they sounds bitter is in itself knocking other women down

@Snowwhiteredapple

Perhaps men sometimes leave for the simple reason that their wife is insufferable

Then they can divorce her and meet someone new afterwards. Having an affair, whether your wife is insufferable or not, is the wrong way to leave a marriage.

Husband been unfaithful with my cousin

@Daisy098 You'll probably get more responses if you re-post it as a new thread of your own - mostly people answer the original post and your post will get lost, and it's just like MN netiquette to start a new thread for yourself. https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/create-thread?topic=relationships

@Daisy098. I'm sorry that this has happened to you.

I've been where you're sitting and it's a lousy place to be.

May I gently suggest you start your own thread and then you'll get answers specific to you?

Hang on in there, it does get better.

x

Thanks for that posting.

I agree that telling anyone that their feelings are somehow 'wrong' is belittling and nasty, as is making assumptions about anyone's emotional level.

Consciously or not, these posters are trying to control others' reactions to something, guiding them back toward MN "hivemind". They're confused why these others are not connected and they are trying to get them back into range so they can be "normal."
If others continue to fail to connect it makes these posters more and more uncomfortable, because these others not predictable and not controllable using typical social manipulation.
Even if these others are not a direct threat, they represent a threat in the sense that they might make the critic do extra thinking, which they are wired to avoid due to its high emotional/psychological cost when overindulged.

There's a simple formula at work in affairs.

If it is an ongoing affair and the AP (affair partner) - can be male or female - is making virtually no actions towards leaving the spouse, it is usually an 'affair down' situation and the AP is simply a sperm receptacle/talking dildo that is used for some extra nookie and some strokes for the ego.

If the cheater is packing their bags and planning to leave, to be with the AP, it is an upgrade.

If the AP is clearly "better" than the spouse, the cheater usually leaves. sometimes literally in days - and I've known this happen.

If the affair is going on and on and the cheater says they are unhappy and/or they are leaving but after months or even years of one excuse or another, it's because it is a low hanging available fruit situation for the reasons mentioned above.

(The measurement of upgrade/downgrade is, of course, subjective to the cheater)

I think that assessment does leave out a couple of other variables.
The first being that the 'upgrade' AP may not be willing to make things official with the cheat, who would actually leave like a shot if they would. The cheat then remains in their primary relationship because its preferable to sitting alone in a bedsit.
The second are the cases where out of some misguided sense of morality/loyalty, the cheat believes it would be worse for their primary partner if they actually left. That they can manage the affair with discretion and no one gets hurt.
This often tends to be the case where there is some dependency on the part of the primary partner, financial, health related etc, children involved or where the spouse is perceived as vulnerable ("They threatened suicide when i tried to leave")
There are cheating partners who genuinely believe their spouse and/or children would be 'destroyed' by their departure. They would much prefer to be with the AP, but believe they need to sacrifice that, while 'grabbing a little happiness for themselves'.

I disagree. Why would you leave a long term relationship for something inferior?

What are you on about. In my circle its men (usually relativwly wealthy) leaving their wives and kids once the wives hit early 40's for a late 20's version of what they already had. Then they replicate their original family.

New wife generally has benefit of youth. Old wife gets half the money and once they have dealt with the fallout generally looks much happier than they have in years. New wife looks dissolutioned as suddenly rich older man isn't so rich after all.

This is only one type of affair situation. It's the stereotype because it plays into the narrative that men have more options than women and in middle age can take their pick from younger models, whereas women in middle age are obsolete.
In the real world the vast majority of men are nowhere near wealthy enough to 'trade up' to a younger model. Nor do they have the necessary good looks, youthfulness or personality to attract one on merit.
Joe Bloke (who is by far in the majority compared to the six figure silver fox) who has an affair, will usually have attracted someone around his own age and attractiveness level. He may see her as an upgrade because he likes her more. But she won't be the hot 20s goddess of myth.