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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Affairs

226 replies

Theanswersalemon · 22/08/2023 14:28

People who begin new relationships by cheating on their spouse/paerner end up "trading down" from their spouse. Often way down. Do you agree, or not?

OP posts:
Theanswersalemon · 22/08/2023 14:29

Sorry, that should be "partner".

OP posts:
Tomhanksismine · 22/08/2023 14:33

In what respect, looks? I think they just see something else in the other person, that maybe they are missing in their current partner 🤔

Theanswersalemon · 22/08/2023 14:37

I'm not going to say what I mean by "trading down", because that has a different meaning to different people, so I'll let people give their own ideas.

OP posts:
DontStarveAGirlOfAPalaver · 22/08/2023 14:45

Well no, of course not, that’s a ridiculously simplistic statement. It’s just something that someone who is upset about their spouse having an affair, and has no grasp of the psychology behind affairs, would say to comfort themselves.

ABeesWings · 22/08/2023 14:56

I’ve known 3 people who have had affairs - one went for a partner who was generally more adventurous than their OH, 2 chose someone much richer than their OH and now live very comfortable lifestyles and all 3 have been with the new person longer than they were with their original spouses. So I don’t think what you have said is true.

Kyovashad · 22/08/2023 15:00

DontStarveAGirlOfAPalaver · 22/08/2023 14:45

Well no, of course not, that’s a ridiculously simplistic statement. It’s just something that someone who is upset about their spouse having an affair, and has no grasp of the psychology behind affairs, would say to comfort themselves.

I agree with this. People usually say it to make the other person feel better. It's sad really.

Best to focus on yourself, and be happy with yourself. You're the only person that can do that.

Justlikeyouforyearstoo · 22/08/2023 15:06

DontStarveAGirlOfAPalaver · 22/08/2023 14:45

Well no, of course not, that’s a ridiculously simplistic statement. It’s just something that someone who is upset about their spouse having an affair, and has no grasp of the psychology behind affairs, would say to comfort themselves.

This.

SisterAgatha · 22/08/2023 15:08

I know what you mean but I wouldn’t call it trading down.

they go out with the new person just because they are “not” who their current partner is. So they don’t see the new person as a whole person, just special in that they don’t do the annoying thing the current partner does. They may have worse traits that are overlooked in favour of this.

I have a friend who picked her last 3 partners just because they weren’t like the last one. She is unable to make a proper assessment of the new man because she’s so grateful he’s not like the old one. She’s not happy but cannot be alone.

Theanswersalemon · 22/08/2023 17:38

@DontStarveAGirlOfAPalaver has no grasp of the psychology behind affairs

Now that's interesting.
On another thread there have been a plethora of reasons put forward to explain affairs but no consensus of opinion.
So are you saying there is a particular psychology or even pathopsychology involved in affairs?

OP posts:
C1N1C · 22/08/2023 17:59

It means they have learned that looks aren't everything and that maybe personality counts???

DontStarveAGirlOfAPalaver · 22/08/2023 19:18

It goes without saying that the psychology of affairs is complex and nuanced based on the people and relationships involved. Personally though I think it boils down to this. Erotic experience gives us a sense of aliveness in a way that few other experiences can. It is a very primal, very human need.

Yet in the majority of long-term relationships there is a natural ebbing away of eroticism over time, as lovers become parents and domestic partners, as responsibilities and life pressures increase. You become family rather than lovers. Novelty, which is a significant component of eroticism, is replaced with familiarity and stability. But the need for eroticism remains, a continuous itch to be scratched.

There is a generally accepted assumption that it is morally correct and perfectly acceptable for us to own and control our partner’s erotic experiences, even if we are no longer providing them with those experiences ourselves. Indeed in most cases we are unable to provide them ourselves since we can no longer offer novelty.

We expect our partners to sacrifice their experience of the erotic for life, to never again feel that sense of aliveness, in order to safeguard our own security. So we can feel safe in the knowledge that if they don’t stray physically they are unlikely to stray emotionally, and therefore our domestic security is assured. When both partners are willing this is a fairly typical sacrifice made in exchange for the benefits and stability of a long-term domestic partnership.

People tend to see any desire they might have for erotic experience outside of their primary relationship as incongruous with what they have been socialised to believe love is, and therefore they assume their desire must be symptomatic of a flaw in the relationship itself, even if actually the relationship is a good one. They pull away emotionally, magnifying to their partner and to themselves any small flaws in the relationship, in order to be able to justify their need for eroticism. This is where ‘the script’ comes in.

Too many people equate feeling a spark of lust, the intensity of sexual chemistry with someone new, to finding a new ‘true love’, which is when this idea of erotic monogamy can be dangerous to marriage. We don’t have just one friend, we don’t wear our one favourite outfit every day for our whole lives or eat our one favourite meal every day. But we apply this exact approach to our erotic relationships and scratch our heads as to why it doesn’t work.

Theanswersalemon · 22/08/2023 21:39

DontStarveAGirlOfAPalaver · 22/08/2023 19:18

It goes without saying that the psychology of affairs is complex and nuanced based on the people and relationships involved. Personally though I think it boils down to this. Erotic experience gives us a sense of aliveness in a way that few other experiences can. It is a very primal, very human need.

Yet in the majority of long-term relationships there is a natural ebbing away of eroticism over time, as lovers become parents and domestic partners, as responsibilities and life pressures increase. You become family rather than lovers. Novelty, which is a significant component of eroticism, is replaced with familiarity and stability. But the need for eroticism remains, a continuous itch to be scratched.

There is a generally accepted assumption that it is morally correct and perfectly acceptable for us to own and control our partner’s erotic experiences, even if we are no longer providing them with those experiences ourselves. Indeed in most cases we are unable to provide them ourselves since we can no longer offer novelty.

We expect our partners to sacrifice their experience of the erotic for life, to never again feel that sense of aliveness, in order to safeguard our own security. So we can feel safe in the knowledge that if they don’t stray physically they are unlikely to stray emotionally, and therefore our domestic security is assured. When both partners are willing this is a fairly typical sacrifice made in exchange for the benefits and stability of a long-term domestic partnership.

People tend to see any desire they might have for erotic experience outside of their primary relationship as incongruous with what they have been socialised to believe love is, and therefore they assume their desire must be symptomatic of a flaw in the relationship itself, even if actually the relationship is a good one. They pull away emotionally, magnifying to their partner and to themselves any small flaws in the relationship, in order to be able to justify their need for eroticism. This is where ‘the script’ comes in.

Too many people equate feeling a spark of lust, the intensity of sexual chemistry with someone new, to finding a new ‘true love’, which is when this idea of erotic monogamy can be dangerous to marriage. We don’t have just one friend, we don’t wear our one favourite outfit every day for our whole lives or eat our one favourite meal every day. But we apply this exact approach to our erotic relationships and scratch our heads as to why it doesn’t work.

So what you're actually saying in this great word salad that it's all based on finding an adrenaline rush?
Nothing to do with someone's characteristics or personality?

OP posts:
DontStarveAGirlOfAPalaver · 22/08/2023 23:50

Apologies for the word salad, I had so many thoughts it was hard to get them down in a thread friendly way 😅but I disagree that erotic experience, as opposed to wham bam thank you mam PIV sex which a lot of (absolutely not all) long term relationships fall into, should be dismissed as just an adrenaline rush. It’s a primal biological need on both an emotional and physical level and is programmed into us. And if we’re talking about a full blown affair rather than one night stand or paying a sex worker, then good sexual chemistry will absolutely be dependent on someone’s characteristics, looks and personality. Those things are just as important in the affair partner as they were when the cheating partner met their DH/DW.

jlpth · 22/08/2023 23:52

Possibly trading down in that the person who they have taken up with is clearly happy to shag a married person, so a bit lacking in morality/humanity. But I guess they are a good match for the cheating married person!

Theanswersalemon · 23/08/2023 01:04

@DontStarveAGirlOfAPalaver It’s a primal biological need (erotic experience) on both an emotional and physical level and is programmed into us.

You've lost me.

If what you say is true and it is so basic, then why are there so many instances of sexual mismatches? And so many guys with erectile dysfunction? And so many "older" men popping viagra to keep going?

There is a generally accepted assumption that it is morally correct and perfectly acceptable for us to own and control our partner’s erotic experiences,

What does that even mean?? To suggest someone can control what goes on inside another one's head is ridiculous.

It doesn't explain why the lady of the manor wants to do a "Lady Chatterly" with the handyman. Or why the managing director wants to bonk the cleaner in the stationary cupboard after hours?

Your post of 14.45 was quite scathing about a betrayed spouse having no grasp of the "psychology of affairs", and having read your response I'm not surprised !

To me it seems like a load of monogamy-bashing psychobabble best saved for the next psychology conference you attend.

OP posts:
Theanswersalemon · 24/08/2023 15:25

Justlikeyouforyearstoo · 22/08/2023 15:06

This.

So do you understand the 'psychology of affairs' ?

OP posts:
LemonPeonies · 24/08/2023 15:41

Personally I upgraded. In that I had a short affair whilst with my exH who was below average looking and treated me like shit (no idea why he was so arrogant or narcissistic as he had nothing going for him). My AP and partner now for 5 years is 1000x better in every way. However usually people have affairs for the thrill/ they're bored of their partner etc. So sometimes the AP is similar or not as good in some ways because I suppose they're blindsided by the excitement of new and illicit etc. And can't see their flaws.

Tangerinedreams3 · 24/08/2023 19:01

To me yes they do trade down.
Not necessarily with looks but to do with how "easy" the affair partner is to push around and manipulate.
For example a guy who is running away from his responsibilities as a husband and father will trade down to a woman who is less hassle, less demanding of him and most importantly of all, willing to put up with his bullshit.
So in summary it's not about looks. It's about trading down to someone who has poor boundaries, poor self-esteem, often low earning power and who is easy to push around.

MrsMagistrate · 24/08/2023 23:04

LemonPeonies · 24/08/2023 15:41

Personally I upgraded. In that I had a short affair whilst with my exH who was below average looking and treated me like shit (no idea why he was so arrogant or narcissistic as he had nothing going for him). My AP and partner now for 5 years is 1000x better in every way. However usually people have affairs for the thrill/ they're bored of their partner etc. So sometimes the AP is similar or not as good in some ways because I suppose they're blindsided by the excitement of new and illicit etc. And can't see their flaws.

So you upgraded.

But what would you say your AP/partner did

Up or downgraded ?

iloveautumn3 · 24/08/2023 23:08

DontStarveAGirlOfAPalaver · 22/08/2023 19:18

It goes without saying that the psychology of affairs is complex and nuanced based on the people and relationships involved. Personally though I think it boils down to this. Erotic experience gives us a sense of aliveness in a way that few other experiences can. It is a very primal, very human need.

Yet in the majority of long-term relationships there is a natural ebbing away of eroticism over time, as lovers become parents and domestic partners, as responsibilities and life pressures increase. You become family rather than lovers. Novelty, which is a significant component of eroticism, is replaced with familiarity and stability. But the need for eroticism remains, a continuous itch to be scratched.

There is a generally accepted assumption that it is morally correct and perfectly acceptable for us to own and control our partner’s erotic experiences, even if we are no longer providing them with those experiences ourselves. Indeed in most cases we are unable to provide them ourselves since we can no longer offer novelty.

We expect our partners to sacrifice their experience of the erotic for life, to never again feel that sense of aliveness, in order to safeguard our own security. So we can feel safe in the knowledge that if they don’t stray physically they are unlikely to stray emotionally, and therefore our domestic security is assured. When both partners are willing this is a fairly typical sacrifice made in exchange for the benefits and stability of a long-term domestic partnership.

People tend to see any desire they might have for erotic experience outside of their primary relationship as incongruous with what they have been socialised to believe love is, and therefore they assume their desire must be symptomatic of a flaw in the relationship itself, even if actually the relationship is a good one. They pull away emotionally, magnifying to their partner and to themselves any small flaws in the relationship, in order to be able to justify their need for eroticism. This is where ‘the script’ comes in.

Too many people equate feeling a spark of lust, the intensity of sexual chemistry with someone new, to finding a new ‘true love’, which is when this idea of erotic monogamy can be dangerous to marriage. We don’t have just one friend, we don’t wear our one favourite outfit every day for our whole lives or eat our one favourite meal every day. But we apply this exact approach to our erotic relationships and scratch our heads as to why it doesn’t work.

I agree.

MrsMagistrate · 24/08/2023 23:28

iloveautumn3 · 24/08/2023 23:08

I agree.

So what's the conclusion of your theory.

What advice do you advocate for this incongruance between safe love and erotic experience.

LemonPeonies · 25/08/2023 06:22

@MrsMagistrate He was single for years before me

TammyJones · 25/08/2023 06:45

@jlpth

Possibly trading down in that the person who they have taken up with is clearly happy to shag a married person, so a bit lacking in morality/humanity. But I guess they are a good match for the cheating married person!
^^^^^^
Possibly the best answer.
You always expect (thanks Hollywood) the ow to vampish temptress, with gorgeous figure and long luscious hair- they are not.
They are just ordinary people looking for love / affection/ attention/ something- and it very rarely works out.

Epidote · 25/08/2023 07:27

Depends on the people and depends on the affair.

DontStarveAGirlOfAPalaver · 25/08/2023 08:14

MrsMagistrate · 24/08/2023 23:28

So what's the conclusion of your theory.

What advice do you advocate for this incongruance between safe love and erotic experience.

a) knowledge is power, both partners being aware of the limitations of monogamy makes it easier to understand, and therefore not act, on any erotic feelings they develop for other people.
b) it also means you're aware of the fact that you're likely to get to the point where you face the same issues in your next relationship, so you either choose to make it work, or you accept that you're choosing serial monogamy rather than lifelong monogamy, which comes with serial upheaval.
c) being aware of the security/novelty conundrum helps people to realise that at a certain point in long-term relationship, once the novelty which created the initial spark has worn off, you need to actively and consciously work to create novelty and excitement and to keep the erotic side of your relationship alive.

It's also pretty well accepted now that the 'low libido' than women are often labelled with is actually down to the fact that women lose sexual interest in their partners much sooner than men. Women are more likely to accept this in exchange for the benefits and stability of home and family that a monogamous relationship offers. But it's really important that women in long-term relationships try keep in touch with their sexuality and work out for themselves, and communicate with their partners, what their erotic needs are, rather than accepting that part of themselves as lost until either they or their partner meet someone else to fill the gap.

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