Husband generous with *my* money

[mintcalipo]

I don't know if I'm being unreasonable and I'd love some opinions please.

I'm the sole earner in my household as my husband has a startup, which has yet to turn a profit. We have two kids in nursery and I pay for everything household and kid related: food, rent, nursery bills etc.

Yet he's so quick to offer to pay for things for other people and it upsets me massively. An example is last week, we went out for his birthday meal with his sister and bro in law, and he offered to pay the whole bill... yet it comes out of our joint account, which really comes out of my pocket?! Or he'll buy his mum an £80 birthday gift (completely reasonable if he's earning money), but when I suggest it's quire a lot when he hasn't earned for two years, he says it will.come out of savings... yet I don't see any of these to contribute towards bills?!

Please can anybody relate or tell me if I'm out of order?

Nope I am a SAHP and my response to NEVER have a joint account would be exactly the same.

I work as an SME advisor, I would be questioning whether it’s time to get a job

he says he feels like he has no say in his spending if I'm telling him what he can and can't spend

But he's doing this to you! He's not giving you any say in how your money is being spent!

I can see why. He’s neither a SAHP nor successfully self-employed.

If this were a woman doing such a ‘hobby job’ and claiming any sort of top-up benefit, HMRC/DWP would be down on her like a tonne of bricks, because it wouldn’t be regarded as viable.

I guess the question is whether or not he is constantly over-spending from the joint account. If he is, then I agree it’s entirely unreasonable. However, the two examples you gave were both one-off spending for very close family and so are arguably ‘special cases’.

Buying his mum (who is, of course, also your MIL and your kids’ grandmother …) a present was presumably on behalf of your whole family? If so, £80 is a lot but it’s not a horrendous amount - it’s not like he bought her a car.

The second example was that he paid for two extra people at a restaurant. Paying for other people’s meals sounds overly generous. But it was his own birthday meal (ie, a once-a-year event) and they were, again, close family. Some families like to buy each other meals as a sign of love and gratitude. But other families show love in different ways. There’s no right or wrong.

Possibly your Dh and you might agree that immediate family should be prioritised and that, when money is tight, frivolous expenses should be limited? If so, I wonder if the main issue is that your view of ‘immediate family’ is your DH and kids (a perfectly reasonable and common view, by the way) but that his view includes his mum and siblings too (also a reasonable and common view)? If so, then I could see why you might feel his spending is frivolous but he doesn’t view it the same way.

I know zero SAHMs that would spend £80 on a gift for a family member without consulting the main breadwinner and none who would offer to pay for another couple's restaurant meal. Most of us budget and manage the family finances. In fact the 'spender' ime tends to be the breadwinner and justify it as 'they are bringing in the cash'.

Caveat: I know of any SAHDs personally though so no anecdotes on that set-up.

Don't know*

I find it odd that they let him pay for their meals on his birthday.

If I was out with someone on their birthday I would pay for them!

He's not spending your money, he's spending family money.
However, he needs to reign his generous nature in if finances are tight.
DH and I have always had a joint account and we don't police each other's spending, but we are very aligned in our spending and neither of us is more frivolous than the other. And we don't make big expenditures without running it by the other.
He needs to stop acting like he has unlimited money and stop being so generous.

This is a great response. If the tables were turned, and it was the husband providing the income people here would say it's 'family money'. If you agreed to support him you have to stand by that, but with a clear agreement in place, keeping things separate as stated above is a great plan as it gives him independence over his spends. But also gives him a limit and you both some savings. It's horrible to feel like you can't afford anything at all but there needs to be clear and agreed boundaries in place. Definitely look at his business as well. Maybe give that a time limit also- if it hasn't made x profit by x month/year then you have to be realistic. Good luck.

It sounds like you are getting it sorted OP

For now I’d suggest as much equality as possible, so that you both have the same amount of spending money put into your separate accounts, the shared account is bills. The rest gets saved, his savings need to be both of yours. Everything is saved.

I’m assuming the business is functioning, but any profit is being ploughed back in? Even so two years is a long time. If you think the business has potential now is the time to ask why it hasn’t lifted off yet and what can you differently - it won’t just be working harder - something needs to change.

Be realistic though about the businesses. Most people’s first businesses don’t succeed. Keep in mind the sunk costs fallacy - people are v inclined to keep ploughing money and effort into a business because they’ve worked so hard so far. You do have to know when to call it.

He does need a pathway to return to work if it doesn’t work out. I would put it that he returns to work for 18 months to clear he head and then starts something else BUT he has to keep up freelance work while he does it. It is generally not a good idea to quit work to start a business.

I don’t think most peoples definition of family money extends to where the person not earning is not earning because they are following their passions as opposed to bringing up kids and doing the housework, and with no consensus on the budget the person not earning is generously spending on items that are 1000% frivolous and don’t benefit the family 1 bit.

a woman who is at home looking after kids not consulting before buying herself a new dress or going out to lunch as long as she knows that as a family they have that money, is a completely different scenario with no crossover whatsoever. She’s not spending money they don’t have. He is benefitting every day from having his children cared for and his house looked after (not all of it, he still lives there and is their dad).

Just to say with a start up its normal to not break even (never mind make a profit) for 2 to 3 years even more depending on the investment need at the start. Doesn't make it a hobby! However if they are turning over income consideration shld be given to salary for the people putting hrs in even if they are shareholders. But I agree with the other poster re joint account bills only rest of the money split to savings (in your name if he already has a pot elsewhere or shared names) then agree a monthly spend as you will amount.

Exactly @AffIt why is it different for women? How many SAHMs have their partners fund their presents to family and don't think twice about it...? Or their partners never complain. This is why I wouldn't do it. Inbalance of finances and earning is an in balance of power in a relationship.

I think your response is bang out of order.
There have been someone threads where the main earner's money is considered household money. If this was a man, moaning about his wife spending his money on flowers for her mother, he'd be accused of being controlling and financial abusive.

I wouldn't describe this as your husband being generous with your money, given that you are/were fully supportive of his start-up plan. You knew that you'd be the sole breadwinner while that was getting off the ground. So instead I'd describe it as your husband over-spending from your joint account, or spending joint funds without consulting you.

Do you talk to him before you make a big purchase or offer to pay for a meal or something like that? I appreciate that you earned the money, but as others have said, it's 'family money' if you've agreed to merge your finances. So I think basically you both need to sit down and have a chat about your budget and what you can and can't afford as a couple, and agree how your spending works.

He has mentioned that he has 'savings'. Did you know about those? How much savings does he have? Do you have any savings? Absolutely fine for you to have separate savings accounts (I don't have any joint accounts with my DP!) but I think you need to at least have a conversation about it - if he has savings while you can't save because all your salary goes into the current account, then there's an obvious issue there that needs to be discussed and resolved.

He thinks the savings belong to him???

I'd empty joint account into personal account and not let him touch it.

The sahm argument is irrelevant because in those cases the sahm isn't earning as she is doing the main childcare, instead. In this case the children are in nursery paid for by the OP and the other parent still isn't bringing a penny to the table.

@SunWorshipping I don't think this is quite the same. When I was at home and not earning, my husband's income was completely considered as joint money. However, we made joint financial decisions and discussed what was coming up in a given month and what we.might spend on presents, holidays etc. It would have been unacceptable if I had decided to act as lady bountiful and splashed around cash we couldn't afford without prior agreement. I was also at home.looking after children and saving us literally hundreds of pounds each month in childcare fees.
Now I am working full time and bringing in a decent amount but our approach is still the same. We view all money as ours and discuss what and how much we want to spend on expenses. Most importantly, we can afford our expenditure and both hold savings for our future.

Typical MN. It's only family money when the man earns it. Different story when it's the woman. Tbh I wouldnt tolerate a situation when I was financially supporting another adult.

@mintcalipo are you actually me?! This is exactly my situation - DP hasn't brought in any money for 3 years as he's working on his Community Project that apparently is going to change the world.... The only wold it's changing right now is mine cos I have no money left, but it's still OK for me to pay for his kids holiday apparently!

Time to stop paying for his children frankly.

If he's earning nothing I'm assuming he's not paying CMS either.

If he does earn lots eventually from his business will he be cautious with spends or will he want to show off and blow large amounts??

@Viviennemary - but usually the woman in the situation is enabling the man to work- doing childcare housework etc, in this case, they are still paying for nursery, she’s still having to do housework.

that said I do know two different men who had what appeared to be hobby jobs in their 30s, wives having to support the household and still sort childcare because he was working but not earning for years - both of them got 7 figure payouts when they finally sold their businesses to other companies in their 40s. They are having fabulous lifestyles with their dcs now in their teens, but it looked horrendous when their dcs were toddlers.