How to split things in a new relationship when one earns masses more than you?

[datingred]

So I know the general consensus on here is if you are married/committed with kids that everyone should either put their money in the same pot, or you should split things in proportion to what you earn, but what about early on in a relationship?

I'm struggling to decide how I feel in a new relationship (3 months) with a wonderful man but he's not as obviously generous as I'm used to and it's sort of grating on me (yes, I'm prepared to be flamed..!)

I think he earns 3 or 4 times more than me (perhaps even more than that) and he's on a minimum of £150k...maybe more like £200k or more.. I know he also has masses of disposable income and is planning on remodelling his house (nothing wrong with it - just choosing to turn it into his ideal house).

He's made a comment in passing about having had one ex that was after him for his money so I feel like he's made it a delicate subject - although I appreciate money always is!

Generally (because of the above, and also because generally I always offer) we have been taking it in turns or splitting things when we go out. A couple of times I have paid and maybe 4 times he has paid. He has probably paid for things slightly more than me - i.e we have 3 rounds of drinks and he's paid first and I've paid 2nd so he's paid 3rd and last though. So it's not like he's not generous at all..

I'm just struggling to decide if I'm being totally unreasonable to expect, at this early stage, him to consider the fact that he earns multiples of my salary and therefore ought to perhaps pay a bit more often or not? I guess I feel like if you're in a committed, loving relationship with someone and you're doing something that week that costs one of you, say, 60%-70% of your fun spending money for the week and the other one, say, 10% of the spending money, that perhaps you'd think more often that you should pay? I would if the situations were reversed...but of course I earn a LOT less and have a LOT less disposable income.

There have also been a few times were he has let me pay for something (say a takeaway at his place) where he said he would pay me back and he hasn't and it's grating me.. I know it'll be because he earns a lot and so £30 here and there means nothing to him but it does to me! But then it feels awkward/mean to ask for it.

What are people's thoughts? At what stage does what each other earns come into play to adjust things away from 50/50 split?

No kids on either part...

No I only dress up for dates and outings! So for me it very much is a dating tax.

I have never ever had a good experience with a man who expected me to pay for him on a date. There is nothing less sexy than someone pretending that they can't find their wallet.

Don’t expect anything. Easy peasy. Don’t expect to be taken to posh places and just do simple things - if you’re truly not with him because of his money this should not be an issue.

I think this is a problem you have with having less money. It seems you are somehow embarrassed to say you can not afford it so you do not as you feel awkward. If you can not solve your feeling, I am not sure this is the right relationship for you.

I don't think she's missing the point at all, she just doesn't agree.

Your view isn't the gold standard view about equality. It's just your opinion.

I'm uncomfortable with men paying for me but respect other womens choices and views on what they find attractive in a partner.

I don't care if a woman never pays for dates, acts like a delicate flower who can't change a fuse, who chooses to be submissive to a man in the bedroom and even in her marriage in general.....that's all to do with her personal relationships and personal choices and is unrelated to work and our employment rights.

This idea that women can't expect equality at work unless they do x and y in their personal lives is harmful and it's that kind of thinking that does people striving for equality a disservice.

A man is allowed to value whatever he wants in a woman and it has no impact on how he's seen at work, he could value generosity in a woman OR he could value women who allow him to pay for dates and to be chivalrous, he could value a driven career woman OR he could value a woman with no career aspirations who wants to be a housewife and SAHM....but god forbid a woman should be allowed to have a preference or things she values in a man.....and if she values the 'wrong' thing then apparently she shouldn't expect equality in the workplace.

Values or expects? Two very very different things.

Values OR expects.

A woman can value whatever she wants in a man she dates or expect him to treat her in whatever way she wants and none of that should have any bearing on whether she should be consider equal at work at all.

It will however have a bearing on her personal life, she might rule good men out, some men could rule her out. She could be treated better because she expects more. She could ruin a good thing because her expectations are so rigid.

But nothing about how women choose to engage in their personal relationships should have any relevance to equality in the workplace.

This!
You need to be upfront now else it's just going to continue, you will feel obligated to do things and pay for things you can't really afford. It's not sustainable, believe me I've been there. If you can't talk openly then the relationship isn't being built on good foundations.

Just tell him that it's really kind of him to treat you to the tickets but you are feeling the pinch and concerned about spending money for the day. Tell him you wouldn't expect him to pay for everything so will have to politely decline.
Better you are open about things now than end up getting in trouble financially trying to keep up with him. If he genuinely has money to spare and wants you around I expect he'll happily pay your way

It’s so interesting to read different POVs. My partner earns approx 5x my salary and his ex partner’s salary was on his level. To start with, he expected me to pay 50:50 and I had to educate him that it’s not possible, whether we like it or not. It’s just not fair on my budget, and I cannot afford to live beyond my means. So if we want to be together, there has to be a compromise.
I pay proportionally to our earnings: if he pays for a lunch out, I pay for coffees etc. Same for holidays: the budget is more or less proportional to our earnings. Same for gifts: I can’t match the value of his presents, so I make sure my gifts are meaningful, even if less expensive.
If DP insisted on 50:50 I would not have stayed in the relationship. Too expensive, and a massive turn off, too.

Oh fuck that, if I was a dude earning 200k a year my date would never 'have to' put her hand in her pocket. Tbf I'd still think it was respectful if she did for things like the odd coffee though.

Like 30% of the date costs maximum. Maximum.

The word gold digger or 'after me for my money' would never escape my lips because I'm not a total loser.

If she never paid, seemed entitled, wanted me to buy her gifts early on or insisted on always going to expensive places - I'd ditch her the second that became apparent. Because she's not for me. and yes, she might be a gold digger but, who cares, to each their own. I'd exercise common sense, leave, and not take it out on the next woman. Because I'm not a spiteful, insecure asshole.

If that's the standard I'd hold myself to in that situation, then why wouldn't I hold someone else to that same standard?

"I am always astonished by how often people with plenty of money forget that other people might well have less. I've spent a lot of my life saying "Sorry, I can't afford it." I get incredibly pissed off by people who choose all the most expensive things on the menu, and then suggest splitting the bill by the number of people, because I've usually picked the cheaper things and had fewer courses.

I think being oblivious to other people's lack of money isn't a very nice trait. I'd be prepared to give him a chance by explaining, though. But I don't think it's sustainable. If you're not prepared to say anything."

Yes, there's a very good Friends episode about this where half the gang don't give a passing thought to the other half not being able to afford the same things.

@Pinkbonbon I love your view and this seems to be my boyfriends view! If it wasn't I wouldn't be with him regardless of how much he earns!

This is tricky and to me, you do sound entitled and yes grabby. It sounds like he does not want to 'keep' a woman (I don't blame him). You have known him for 2min amd you do want him to pay for you. You seem to feel almost entitled to this treatment. There is nothing wrong with that, if that is what he wants as well but it does not sound like it is, at least for now. He refers to women who has been bank rolled by him and he is making it clear that those expectations is not something that he finds attractive in a partner. He prefers someone who is more independent financially.

Neither of you are wrong, your expectations are just not aligned.

Ok, if you have not been in this situation I’ll explain it with apples.

You earn 1300 a month and can afford to go out once a week and spend £40. He earns 4000 a month and is used to go to pay for £80 pp dinner several times a week, you go on holidays choosing all inclusive for £500 inc flights once a year. He likes 5 star hotels and Michelin starred restaurants where the bill for two people (without wine) can be easily £300. On top of that, you don’t have fancy clothes for all those occasions so you need to spend at least £150-£300 a month just to look reasonable, he needs to be proud of you remember? So the jeans and blouse you normally use won’t cut it.

He is asking to go halves, she is asking to spend less, he doesn’t give a shit she is getting short of money, half is fair for him even if she is always trying to avoid the starter and the £75 bottle of wine. She is grabby? FFS she is NOT, if anyone is grabby in this situation is the rich man, who dating a woman with less resources to cover half of a bill she cannot afford so he can order at pleasure and pay less than he would if going out on a date with himself and no one else.

Wow, this took off a lot since I last posted! A lot to address!

Ok, so the comparisons about behaviour in relationships and work are totally out of whack in my opinion. They are totally different areas of life. I certainly agree with being paid the same as a man doing the same job etc. That's a given (albeit we all know that doesn't actually happen still - statistically, across the country still). That is totally different from a situation where you are in a loving, caring relationship with someone where you are earning much less. I've never actually dated a man who earned less than me - which is purely circumstantial before anyone jumps on that! - but if I did I wouldn't expect them to pay more because they're a man. I think the earning a lot more is more of the valid reason as to why it might happen and if I was the one earning more than my partner then yes I would want to treat them more (if they were comfortable with it) as it's just a kind thing to do in my opinion. I have certainly paid more for friends on lower incomes with rounds/getting an extra bottle of wine for us to share or whatever when I've been in the position to do so. And I do think it is normal and to be expected to want to treat a partner/ give them nice surprises etc. Or perhaps to use the phrasing of a PP - I value this as a trait - generosity. I have actually done this for my bf but obviously well within my budget so I'm definitely not "grabby" - whatever this has been interpreted to mean.

I'm not sure why he was against the idea of taking it in turns to plan/pay for dates. I guess maybe he felt like that was too contrived and too forced, rather than the more relaxed way we've been dating so far. I'm thinking now also (based on my update coming below) he might just have taken on board what we discussed and just felt himself like he was going to change things going forward.

To the posters who have been shocked that we touched on discussions about maternity leave etc, are you also the posters who have a go at women who are pregnant/have children with men who refuse to pay evenly for childcare or expect to keep splitting bills evenly whilst women are on maternity leave? Surely the earlier you discuss things like this in relationships, the sooner you find out if your views are aligned or if you're wasting time!? We've discussed lots of big issues early on - it was just money remaining as the last elephant in the room until now!

So following on from the below, we've had a few nights in where it's been casual/easy re money - I've picked up food on the way to his once and he's then cooked at his a few times/sorted breakfasts etc. We went out for the first time since the chat the other night - a walk with a few drinks and planned to grab a bite. He bought the first round of drinks (I was planning on buying the next ofc and assumed we'd split dinner) but when it came to paying the bill for the restaurant he ended up paying. I said I was happy to split (I was, it was within my budget and I had no other plans to spend money that week) but he said he'd like to get it and made a jokey comment about how it wasn't to do with the chat we'd had but he'd just like to, so I let him. Surprisingly it didn't feel awkward or difficult - perhaps due to the chat or just in general we're obviously getting closer/more comfortable/stronger feelings as time goes on. We had another drink on the way home which I paid for and now I've got that "extra" money I will of course plan to pay for something for him soon. It felt genuine from him re paying and I of course don't/won't always expect it but I appreciated it. Hopefully it'll be less of an issue between us in future...

That’s a great update, well done for having the tricky chat!

Thanks for updating OP, I had a similar awkward but necessary chat with the man I am dating recently and it has actually brought us closer. That is how you build intimacy, by getting stuck into tricky conversations and saying what YOU actually think instead of speculating what the other person thinks! So much grief in relationships could be spared if people did it more but in a positive and respectful way.

I agree with this. Glad he is trying to modify his behavior, but him expecting you to pay halves on upscale activities that you can't afford, was not ok. If he wants you to pay halves, that's totally fine and reasonable, but then he needs to be content with restaurants and other activities that are affordable to you. Also, even if you are in a relationship where you each pay half, if you invite someone to an event then you pay. You don't invite someone and then make them take out their wallet and pay for a bunch of stuff they wouldn't have had to pay for if they hadn't accepted your invitation. Also I am still giving red flags to him saying he would pay you back for the takeaway and then "forgetting" to do so. Again, if he wants to be exacting about money, no problem, but then he needs to actually pay his part without being nagged, not just make you pay yours.