Work wife. Is this cheating?

[parker06]

My husband told me he had a work wife a few months back. All happy and open about it so I didn't mind at all. The other day he confessed that although nothing happened between them he told her that if we weren't married then he would be with her. Is this cheating? Not sure how I feel right now.

You say "fight" I say "doing the pick me dance"

Don't disrespct yourself by begging a man to stay with you who clearly has been disrespecting you

Find your anger. Then Google relationship 180. He needs to feel the fear of what his life would be like if he was with his work wife. 50% custody of children and all the shit that goes with a divorce

At the moment he's got the pick of two women and he's playing you both off against each other. Take away that choice. Make him realise you can do better than being treated like this.

Get on with your life without him. Stop cooking, cleaning or doing anything for him. Expect him to look after the kids 50% and start going out and living your life without him.

Nothing scares the shit out of a man than the rug being pulled from under him. You might even realise you prefer being without someone who has treated you so badly. You've got this.

I live by certain advices I have picked up along the way: a. never try to convince someone to be with you. b. A man will make it happen if he wants to. c. If you ever have to choose between me and someone else.. don't choose me.

It is his job to fight for you and change but by the sound of it he won't. Do you want to spend your life with a man like him? Always looking over your shoulder if he is entertaining another woman? That's not how it works. Commitment is a decision. Being loyal, honest and transparent with each other are choices. He has shown you very clearly who he is choosing.

What are you fighting for? What are you hoping to save?

He's shown you he doesn't care. His priority is with her.

You're not the one who should be fighting...

I did the pick me dance when I was younger and I’ll never do it again. I fought to keep a loser of a man who didn’t love or respect me because I didn’t want him going to her. I should have just let her have him.

And nothing kills an emotional affair like the cold reality of being together - instead of the exciting fantasy of what it’d be like.

Let her have him OP. Kick him out. It’s what he wants but it’s also in your best interest. You’d be fighting a losing battle.

Is he currently fighting?

Trouble is, he thinks 'we didn't have sex (probably), I've done nothing technically wrong. I can carry on at this level, flirty colleagues swapping chocolates and longing glances, a nice wife at home. If I tell her roughly what's happening then I'm not even lying. DW is a bit pissed off but she will drop it eventually as long as I don't go overboard. Where's the harm in chocolates. I may decide to ramp things up with colleague, I may not. It's quite nice keeping the option open though. I'm managing this just fine'.

He is looking at the events in isolation to justify them. And with an EA they can usually be justified in isolation. A drunken outpouring, a birthday present, a look. None of these is individually marriage ending. He is refusing to see the bigger picture from your perspective and wants you to accept his justification for now unless he makes a decision to leave or have a physical affair.

Trouble is, this is all very disloyal and hurtful and more likely to lead to a full blown affair than willingly drawing a line.

If he cared about your feelings he would see your POV and act accordingly. Fight, if you will. Instead you are fighting to make him see your perspective and change his ways. It doesn't suit him to do so, he seems to like things as they are.

Why are you the one fighting when he is merrily buying chocolates for a woman he declared he would like to be with, to you and her?

It's your choice but consider whether he is taking you into account here. 'I don't believe in emotional affairs' isn't an excuse. I presume he isn't holding hands with male colleagues.

I don't want to hijack the thread but what ARE the boundaries with male/female work colleagues outside of work?
Coffees?
Drinks after work?
Meals out?
Work trips away?

I know a couple who seem to do absolutely everything together and there children are often involved too - I often wonder if I'm being overly dramatic.

You can't fight for your marriage, OP. The fact the OW is single makes it even more difficult. The fact you don't have children does, too.

I would just say it's over and be very cold to him. If there's any fighting to be done it should be done by him.

I would say intent and feeling is key. I've done all these things with male colleagues previously. Zero interest in each other romantically. It would be different if I was feeling pangs of excitement and romantic intrigue at the time.

Some people might not be comfortable with certain items on this list but for me disloyalty is only when feelings start overlapping with the main relationship.

Hence, I have no problem with my DP socialising with other women. Great, in fact. However if he developed a crush, I would expect him to try to stop the oxygen flow to this by limiting contact as much as possible and being discreet. That or make a decision to end our relationship and 'shoot his shot' as they say. Not carry on both.

In my last job when me and a colleague were widely referred to as work wife / husband (in a jokey way), we didn’t ever go for coffee, or after work drinks, or meals and there was no need for work trips away.

In previous jobs, where I have not had a work husband, yes I would go for coffee with male colleagues but they would be primarily for work catch up reasons. Drinks after work would be in groups, meals more for special occasions and again in groups.

When I was younger and single, I did sometimes go out for meals and drinks with male colleagues one on one. All absolutely innocent and generally when still single but not always.

Also when I was younger, I did a lot of travel with work and I would go out for drinks and meals with whomever I was travelling with and often it would be a married man but it was always the norm to spend the evening with travel companion. Again completely innocent.

The fact they don’t have children doesn’t make it more difficult. It doesn’t make it easy, but it makes it easier than when you have children involved.

How did he come to being drunk around her? Assuming he wasn't intoxicated at work.
Was it a works night out for drinks or had they gone out and had some drinks together?

@parker06 you are taking in and processing a horrible, horrible realisation at the moment.
You are blindsided, forced to face the possibility that your marriage is over, that your life has changed and might change in the near future into a future you neither invited nor wanted. It’s not weakness or a reflection on you that you are still asking yourself (and us) if there is any possibility that this can be saved, that what you see as the worst case scenario can be avoided. It takes time to absorb stuff like this, we can read this then say what we think and get on with our day. You read this and respond from a state of pain, anxiety and trauma. So ignore the ‘pick me dance’ comments, whether true or not they can only serve to shame or belittle someone in deep shock. It is perfectly normal to not want something to happen, regardless of the circumstances, and try to stop it at all costs. It’s normal OP.
However, when you can bear to, you need to look at what has happened, what he has said and is still saying, and then you need to get selfish. What do you want to happen? What will make you happy? And he needs to provide that instantly. He’s already telling you that he’s not prepared to give this woman up, even as a friend.
Ask yourself if you want to live every day that he’s at work, in a state of panic and pain, wondering what he’s doing or saying. Ask yourself if you will never wonder what’s on his phone and what he’s doing with it. Do you want to live your life constantly looking over your shoulder, knowing that he’s going to go to work with a woman he had told that if it wasn’t for you he’d be with her?
It’s very hard to face stuff we just don’t want to, and there’s no shame in taking your time wrapping your head around it and making a decision. But the only way back for me would be him to end it, cut all contact and get a new job elsewhere. And he should be on his knees offering to do that, offering to do anything you want him to. That’s what remorse and fighting for a marriage looks like OP. Him begging, him making huge changes and sacrifices, him willing to move heaven and earth because he can’t stand what he did and wants to change. Unless this happens there is no way back, the fantasy imagined relationship will always be better than real life, you can imagine a scenario and colour it in any colour you like. Reality usually tells you how you actually feel about anybody. At present there are no consequences for his actions, he thinks he’s got you where he wants you, he’s got her where he wants her.
Think carefully what kind of relationship you want (and deserve) and then he has to provide that. Him. Set clear boundaries and ask the questions you don’t want to ask. “Are you giving her up or not?” If the answer is no, then it is far better to tell him to leave than live a life of torture. Take your time, think carefully and be honest with yourself about what is happening. It hurts to face the truth, it’s hard when you are in a state of trauma. Treat yourself gently but try to stick with what you can actually see, what you can actually hear, rather than trying desperately to see what you want to see and what you want to hear. I know because I did it initially. It’s the denial stage of trauma and normal. Face it in your own time. Get support to help you. You can’t dress it up any other way to make this understandable or excusable, it isn’t. I’m so sorry OP, I know that this is your worst nightmare. Put yourself first now, you owe it to yourself, you deserve to be put first. X

What is their workplace policy on relationships between staff?
You need to tell him how much he is disrespecting you. If he did have any respect he wouldn't behave like this. Pack his bags and show him the door.

He thinks by telling you 'everything' that he's absolved himself from any wrongdoing.
What a manipulative cunt.
She either wants to be with him or is enjoying the thrill of making a married man want her.
What's the age difference between them?
Personally I'd be fucking fuming and bin him off.
Your sister is a good barometer for you when your judgment is clouded

You have been incredible, than you for all your kind words and helpful advice, I'm trying, I didnt think I would ever do the pick me dance i thought i was a strog person but ik feeling so anxious. You've really helped

He's showing you all these things, not to be open and honest but to be able to come back and say that you were okay with it in the future.

He has no intention of removing her from his life, he's waiting for you to push him because the weak bastard hasn't got the balls to jump.

@parker06 you’re welcome, only wish I could do more. You never thought you’d have to behave like any of this because you never thought this would happen. When it happens to you out of the blue your mind is reeling and you do more reacting than calm thinking. Please, please don’t beat yourself up about anything, in the initial stages you are in shock and it is just about surviving. Doing the ‘pick me dance’ is a response to the panic inside you when faced with the realisation that you might be losing your marriage and the life you thought you had. You don’t think, you can only just about react to what is going on to try to just survive and catch a breath, in a spiralling situation where you feel out of control and reality has suddenly turned into a hall of mirrors. You see distorted reflections of your reality and don’t know which one is true any more. It’s like falling into deep water and struggling to keep your head above water. When you feel calmer you will realise that floating, being still, is what you need to do to survive. You stop struggling with ‘pick me’ type arguments and you stop trying to make sense of the senseless, and the realisation hits you that now you feel calmer you can see him and your reality for what and who they are. Instead of reacting in a panic, you calmly float and begin to think clearly again. You set boundaries and consequences and you carry them through if he refuses. Doing this will bring your power back, put you in the driving seat. You’ll stop listening to him and responding out of desperation, trying to find out what you can do to make it all stop. You’ll see that actually you can’t, you can’t control the behaviour of another person, you can’t help him make decent choices. If he can’t do this for himself then that’s on him. So concentrate on you. YOU come first now OP. What he does or says is on him. Don’t ask yourself “Why am I not good enough for him?” You are enough, OP. More than.
Behaving as he is currently, ask yourself instead, “Is he good enough for me?”
No, he isn’t.
Try to breathe, think about floating when you feel the panic rising and set your stall out. He won’t like it when he sees he can’t control you, he’s doing it by fear because he thinks you are terrified of losing him. Show him that you’re not terrified of losing this version of him. He shapes up or he leaves. It will shock the life out of him OP to see that God’s gift to women he most certainly is not. And that you can see this too and are not afraid to say it.
Then he can feel the fear of loss, really feel a consequence of his behaviour. You regain your power and he shrinks to the pathetic, entitled, cake-eating man toddler he’s currently being.
I repeat, don’t beat yourself up or allow any comments here to make you feel ashamed, nobody knows how they’d react when this stuff hits them until it does. We might cringe and regret stuff we said initially when we look back at it all, but you are in shock, this is appalling, you reacted as you did to just try to survive.
You are enough OP, you will survive this and though it doesn’t feel like it now, there will be a day when things are better, you feel the old ‘you’ coming back. This too shall pass, OP. I know it does. X

@Thewookiemustgo

You are absolutely unbelievable 👏, your ability to deconstruct the situation and help OP is incredible. If only we all had advice like this when similar happens.

@Treacletoots thank you but I’m just someone who got damaged by infidelity and in a crisis I believe that knowledge is power. Real power. I have read so many books about this stuff, forums, blogs, podcasts, and in my work I worked with families so I witnessed stuff and I learned. I’ve had therapy myself and suffered with mental health issues (before infidelity screwed me up for a while) so I know we’re all only human and we’re all flawed to a greater or lesser degree. The hardest thing in the world is to know something is true but not want it to be true. To have your belief systems and trust trashed. To have to rethink your life, your beliefs, your views of how you thought life should go. We resist because if things aren’t the way we want them to be then we have a lot of tough work to do. We are brought up being entertained by stories and tv and movies which tell us good guys always win, villains get punished, good things happen to good people and not bad. That you get what you deserve. Not always, no. I hate injustice but have to accept that it exists. I resisted with all my might, this bad thing must have happened to me because I’m a failure as a wife, as a woman. I was devastated. I learned that I couldn’t be further away from the truth about myself if I’d tried. I’m human, yes, perfect? No. But I’m a bloody decent one. And so are many of the amazing women on here. Tell yourselves that every day. XX

I second everything@Thewookiemustgo says. Initially you don't think logically. This is all on them OP. Their need for an ego boost , someone who hasn't heard their stories hundreds of times, who laughs when they are being a twat, who clearly thinks they are amazing. So find your calm- find the fact that their behaviour at the moment isn't good enough for you. I've been there too - I changed the dynamic and if it happens again- I'm off - with a clear conscience.

Shouldn't I fight for my marriage though?

What is the point of you fighting to save your marriage when your husband doesn't want it to be saved.

You are amazing, thank you so much. Your advice has helped me so much through this x

@@parker06 you’re welcome. Just want something positive to come out of what happened to me. If my experience helps then at least it’s benefitted somebody. X

Hope you’re ok @parker06