Wife doesn't want sex

[studyinscarlet]

Was wondering if the mums of mumsnet could give me some advise.

Been married 25 years. We have a loving relationship and 2 kids grown yp. We are both 50. We have not had sex for 5 years. She has gone through menopause and it is not just painful for her, but before menopause she was no longer interested in it. She has tried HRT etvc - no different. All the advice out there talks about communication etc, but we have already discussed the issue for years and she has told me that she definitely doesn't want sex anymore (any form of sex including non penetrative etc.) and does not want to try testosterone gel (another thing that people usually advise). Our relatiknship is otherwise very good and neither of us are having affairs etc. I keep myself in shape and am a nice normal person (uou'll have to take my word on that!)

There is a dead-bedrooms forum on Reddit but all they seem to say is "get divorced" or "get an open relationship". I 100% do not want to get divorced as we both love each other! There is also absolutely no way on God's earth that my wife would agree to an open relationship - trust me. She would also definitely leave me if she ever caught me having an affair (not that I have had an affair - I'm not really into anyone else)

The only other option is to accept celibacy. I am only 50 and always really enjoyed sex - it feels like a bereavement. I know some of you will advise just solo-sexual activities, which is fair enough but it is really no substitute - it's not the climax i'm after but the physical affection/excitement that goes beyond hugging and hand-holding (we do already hug alot)

There might be nothing any of you guys can advise and probably I just need to accept our sex-life has given us 2 kids and now it's reached the end of the road. I just thought i'd put it out there, though, in case there was something I had not thought of.

I really haven't... which is sort of why I posted it.

It seems to me that, from reading all of the OP's posts, there has been a perfect storm of circumstances that have led to this situation.

Cheating when they were younger (hers only being to redress the balance); imbalanced caregving; an attempt on the OP's part to cheat again; differing attitudes towards extramarital sex/inappropriate communications with others outside of the marriage...

They could both have made other decisions along the way - to not cheat or seek attention outside of the marriage; to end the relationship at any stage; greater equality of caregiving during the marriage etc. But they didn't and here they both are.

She may have been sexless for so long that she doesn't perceive herself as having sexual needs anymore so that she may not actually feel she is missing out on anything anyway.

OP, you say you have discussed it and discussed relationship counselling/psychosexual counselling. It may be that the issues for her are so great that they are insurmountable.

I agree that imposing a life on celibacy on a partner is wrong as is expecting a partner to provide sex. There is no easy solution to the situation.

You also say that you hadn't realised before how much the messaging etc could have affected her.

I wonder if it would be worth having a conversation about this? Take sex off the table so not a conversation about having sex again - it's not necessary as you both know where you stand on that. But one that is emotionally open and about feelings in that respect one that acknowledges everything that has led you both to this point? A conversation about the relationship, the future and what you both want to see in your futures?

Talk about affection and intimacy (not as a euphemism for sex) and leave sex out of it completely.

And maybe a long conversation will open up a solution for the future.

Whats clear is that the relationship can't really continue as it is.

@Fuckingfuming1 NOBODY is entitled to sex. Everyone is entitled to want a sex life without being shamed into celibacy.

Minimising sex as superficial is so utterly deluded. It's a natural drive and part of the bonding process.

I think if it was me in the OP’s situation I’d work on being more lovable and making my other half more inclined to want to have a more loving relationship which may or may not then lead to sex.

Or get divorced and try you luck on Tinder In competition with all the gorgeous 35-year-old men who have a petulance for older women, and are more than willingly servicing The unicorn menopausal MILFs with a high sex drive’s needs.

There are many ways to make love, without penetrative sex. The love, affection and closeness are the vital things.

At 50, I wouldn't have wanted to be without those things.

You both need to talk to each other - it's not fair for one to impose a life sex ban, any more than it is to force someone into sex.😚

it's not fair for one to impose a life sex ban, any more than it is to force someone into sex.😚

FFS. They’re a huge fucking difference!!!

I'd be interested to hear OP's wife's take on this.

Divorce your wife & co-parent, you might find someone else or you might not, but being married to someone who doesn’t want you is the worst of all worlds

I appreciate there are some older women who still have a high sex drive, but an awful lot simply don't post menopause. Add in to the mix care giving and inappropriate communications outside the marriage and it's not suprising that the OPs wife no longer feels sexually interested. Doesn't mean though that they can't have a good relationship. Plenty of people have great sex and very dis functional relationships- does that make it a better marriage?? I appreciate it's not what the OP wants, so he has to decide what he wants to do with the situation as it is- not force his wife into sex she doesn't want. Maybe she doesn't fancy him either anymore in that way- there's that possibility too

but being married to someone who doesn’t want you is the worst of all worlds

She may want him many, many ways, just now sexually.
As a pp said, there are many relationships where people have fantastic sex and it’s awful in other areas, people can choose to stay if sex is top of your list of what’s important. Similarly a relationship can be fantastic in every way apart from sex and people are free to choose whether to stay or go depending on their priorities.

If I found messages from my DH, to an Ex, and he was telling her she looked good, I would be utterly heartbroken. And, I honestly think it would be the end for our marriage. The Op doesn't understand this, which makes me wonder what else he just doesn't get about women. Op's wife is only 50. I highly doubt she has no sex drive, but she doesn't want it with the Op. One has to wonder why. I think him being in contact with, and complimenting an Ex, was probably the straw that broke the camels back. She can't truly trust him anymore. Game over.

Is it really such a deal breaker? You don’t sound like you want to move on OP so I’m not sure if being divorced would make you any happier.

I think you have given your wife 5 years for her to try to make an effort. I understand she might not want penetrative sex anymore but she could at least give you a hand job or a blow job. If she won't engage with you at all then you have to accept she doesn't fancy you anymore. Under these circumstances you should divorce. You can still be friends with your wife and your children should be able to accept this. No sex since you have been 45 is really unfair of your wife. There is still plenty of time for you to find a new partner who you can be more sexually compatible with. You never know if you suggest divorce to your wife she might rethink some sexual activity with you.

@CollagenQueen exactly what I said earlier- to be frank he's bloody lucky if he still valued the relationship that she didn't tell him where to go at that point. I'm sorry if the OP isn't getting sex to suit his needs which less face it are 'wants' not needs but actions have consequences and the consequence here is on a sexual level she has the ick. It is not punishment as someone else described it - if you mentally you go off it, you just do and it's very obvious you aren't into it. He is fully entitled to end it if he feels he can't go on in a sexless relationship, he is not entitled to force her into something she doesn't want. If he ends it, I don't think she will be suprised either but given he has said he has physical issues too she probably feels a responsibility and doesn't want to be the one pushing the 'end it' button. Many long marriages continue as someone described as marriages of friendship and convenience (on both sides) and whilst that is very hard to understand if you are younger and still very into your partner , it's easier to understand when you get older , after maybe 30 to 40 years of a sex life and maybe various partners. This aspect of life I think is harder on more men than women (although it affects some women too) and is one reason I think you get a lot of late 40s through to early 60s divorces. As others have said be careful what you wish for, the idea there will be a load of rampant women who you like and fancy in that age group and who reciprocate may not be quite as you think. A male friend of mine felt exactly the same and divorced, only to find himself several years down the line with a complete gold digger who raided his assets and then dumped him when she had spent his cash . You may well end up in an identical situation within a couple of years when the novelty has worn off. I would say if it's not just sex, it may help to look at general closeness that doesn't involve sex- she may respond more to that. We don't know you OP and it may be that you come across as simply wanting sex if she initiated anything at all affectionate.

It's a lose lose situation for the people deprived of sex and forced into celibacy. If they love their partner and life together they have to just suck it up. It's a horrible situation to be in.

You should not be that surprised that women’s experiences are not well documented or known about or reported tbh. ( women’s orgasms are also poorly researched). Especially when women do not really go to the Drs about increased sex drive as it’s not really a problem to be sorted. It’s a definite real thing that women talk about to each other about on menopause support groups and you’ll find women talking about it on here. My sex drive supercharged at peri. When I asked my specialist menopause healthcare provider if HRT would reduce this, as I did not want it to, she said ‘oh no, it won’t’. But it did. Just down to normal levels, but it did. Which is not a surprise. If the hormonal imbalance was increasing my drive, normalizing them would reduce it.

OP, you say that sex is painful for your wife. Does that concern you at all? Or do you think your problems are more important? Are there any medical conditions you feel you might potentially develop, aside from your current mental health problems and physical disability, that would entitle your wife to message compliments to/begin flirting with a former partner? Actually, would you be ok with her dumping you because of your existing mental and physical problems if she’s fed up of you not being the man she feels ‘entitled’ to share her life with?

Her life doesn’t sound great to me and I hope she dumps you before you decide to leave. It’d be a shame to see you back on here in the future bemoaning the fact that as a divorced man you’re struggling to find a partner for sex unless you’re prepared to give certain things in return, such as money or taking care of her or helping raise her children from a previous relationship. Or perhaps you think there’s a vast pool of attractive, independent women, with no commitments just gagging for no strings sex with a chap who’s got to help out with his adult children due to their mental health struggles, judging by what you’ve said. Personally, I’d run a mile from someone like you.

@NarcNarc It's like you read some other post where a man said he didn't give a shit about his wife, he wanted sex, or he was going to leave and shag about. Total opposite of what was actually said.

That’s your interpretation and you’re welcome to it. I have a different view.

@NarcNarc It's quite literally written in black and white - it says he doesn't want a divorce, and is wondering if there's anything to be done or he just needs to accept celibacy now.

This is the first thread I've read where I'd be fascinated to know which posters are men and which are women.

Like I said, that’s your interpretation of his post. I read it differently. To me he sounds self absorbed, focuses solely on his own wants and he gives no indication that he’s prepared to step up and either help his wife find solutions to the medical issues that are causing painful sex (if that’s what she wants) or alternatively, have a loving, non judgmental talk with her to find out what her needs are and how he can be a better partner and try to rekindle their mutual love, affection and respect. I’m certain that flirting with his former partner isn’t achieving his goal and he doesn’t mention any other approaches he’s tried.

Perhaps. But there are plenty of mammals (and indeed other animals) that mate to reaffirm their bond.

@GreyCarpet I wouldn't want to have sex with you either. Actually, I'd have divorced you already.

she never wanted to divorce him, she just wanted to stop having sex.

I know. Clearly mistakes were made on both parts.

Like many men, he looked outside the relationship for sex and validation. Like many women, she tried to make peace with it in her own way.

Years down the line, it hasn't worked and a further attempt at infidelity on his part has pretty much scuppered it.

I suspect she stayed for the reason many women do - the children, financial security, social appearances, fear of the unknown; sense of responsibility and duty.

He didn't ever really understand (until this very day, it would seem), the impact his infidelity would have on his marriage. She has tried to bury her head in the sand and hope the lack of sex went unnoticed for a while I suppose - kicked that can down the road to be picked up another day. Which is exactly what he has done too.

Neither of them has cared about the other enough to work through it together; neither of them has had the impetus to leave. He was the first one to stray, she chose to marry him anyway. He hoped she'd just eventually come round; she hoped he'd forget about sex.

They've both fucked it up but now one of them needs to finally pick that can up and chuck it in the bin, I guess.

I also suspect she wouldn't be as devastated by him suggesting divorce as he or others imagine. She might not want to suggest it herself but she can't be happy either.