Wife doesn't want sex

[studyinscarlet]

Was wondering if the mums of mumsnet could give me some advise.

Been married 25 years. We have a loving relationship and 2 kids grown yp. We are both 50. We have not had sex for 5 years. She has gone through menopause and it is not just painful for her, but before menopause she was no longer interested in it. She has tried HRT etvc - no different. All the advice out there talks about communication etc, but we have already discussed the issue for years and she has told me that she definitely doesn't want sex anymore (any form of sex including non penetrative etc.) and does not want to try testosterone gel (another thing that people usually advise). Our relatiknship is otherwise very good and neither of us are having affairs etc. I keep myself in shape and am a nice normal person (uou'll have to take my word on that!)

There is a dead-bedrooms forum on Reddit but all they seem to say is "get divorced" or "get an open relationship". I 100% do not want to get divorced as we both love each other! There is also absolutely no way on God's earth that my wife would agree to an open relationship - trust me. She would also definitely leave me if she ever caught me having an affair (not that I have had an affair - I'm not really into anyone else)

The only other option is to accept celibacy. I am only 50 and always really enjoyed sex - it feels like a bereavement. I know some of you will advise just solo-sexual activities, which is fair enough but it is really no substitute - it's not the climax i'm after but the physical affection/excitement that goes beyond hugging and hand-holding (we do already hug alot)

There might be nothing any of you guys can advise and probably I just need to accept our sex-life has given us 2 kids and now it's reached the end of the road. I just thought i'd put it out there, though, in case there was something I had not thought of.

As for using the menopause as an excuse I think that is low of her as I certainly didn't suffer a low libido or have any physical symptoms such as dryness. If I had, my husband and I would have dealt with the matter together and bought lubricants and sought ways to arouse each other

Well hello. Aren’t you the lucky one?

l bought lubricants. They made no difference. I was give oestrogen cream to insert. It gave me chronic refractory thrush. I still can’t have sex. The pain is unbearable.

Bully for you🙄

If she has said she definitely doesn't want sex anymore, and is not open to trying gels etc, you know your options. Stay and accept it or leave. Are you asking what others would do or waiting for permission? I'd stay with dh if he had a medical/hormonal reason for not wanting sex and had tried to get help but it failed. I mean, in sickness and health. But if he didn't want it due to emotional blockages from a bonk 25 years ago before marriage, I'm fairly sure I'd be divorced long ago. If it's painful for your wife, and she hasn't attempted to get help for that, she is most likely using it as a convenient excuse.

😂😂😂😂 Red Asian

Sorry to hear this its a shit situation ,and probably not all that unusual I expect.You may have to realise that to stay in your marriage with all its hugs and cosiness is never going to include sex.I think maybe some older ladies may go off sex as they get older .The soreness and pain are difficult. Thing is you could go OLD and get on OK with lots of ladies willing to give you what you want .They may lead further or not .Many people take this route but as you say a long marriage and DC is a heavy price to pay.You are still a fairly young chap to accept celibacy as a life choice though ,and as you age it will become more difficult to meet ladies .Also just as an aside you would possibly be able to have a second family if you wanted to .Just things to weigh up

OP, this isn't going to get any better. Due to your previous actions, she obviously never forgave you and l cant say l blame her.
You either accept a sexless marriage or
separate and find someone else.You can still co parent together and be friends.

Sorry OP, that sounds very depressing. I personally think a marriage without sex is a sham. You're mates who love each other. Go your separate ways and remain friends, nothing lost then really. Friends can hug too.

It seems to me that you and your then girlfriend (now wife) had a rather shaky relationship with you both messing around before marriage

You then got married and had great monogamous sex for a few years

But it appears that your wife didn't ever learn to trust you, snooped, found a conversation you had with an ex, and decided you were being unfaithful

Maybe your wife doesn't want sex now because of trust issues, because she's pissed off with you, because of hormone problems or because of something else

I've got a suspicion that the whole no sex thing is a punishment tool. But i might be wrong

You could try couples counselling

If she won't give you pleasure even though she's not bothered , there's not much hope ....although maybe counselling might help her say the things she wants to say

He did leave though. When he was still having a sexual relationship with his wife, he decided to look elsewhere. He wasn’t successful because the ex didn’t bite and his wife found out but he had decided then that his sexual needs would be met outside the marriage. He just thought he could mix and match and continue to have sex with the wife too but she’s had other thoughts about that.

So now he needs to suck up the consequences of that decision and either leave fully so he can have sex with anyone who will offer this to him or stay and enjoy the financial benefits and status of the marriage and recognise that he threw the sexual side away by his own actions.

As for the faux disingenue act, if there was nothing to hide about his interactions with his ex, why was he not upfront with his wife that he was messaging her? It was the deceit and the flirtiness which caused the problem, not the fact that he had any contact at all with someone from his past. I have male friends from school and previous jobs I keep in touch with by email and on social media and even meet up with them occasionally for coffee or lunch. But it’s not hidden. My husband knows about them and if he wanted to read any of the emails he could do so and wouldn’t discover anything inappropriate in them.

You're not there yet but you'll get to a point where you'll finally realisze that there is only one option, so start planning your exit and leave on your own terms.

realize , sorry typo

Divorce
Celibacy
Affair

Personally it would be a deal breaker for me

The updated version of OP's story says it all really.
Hopefully the wife will find someone else who ignites her sex drive again and who she can trust.

Yeah. It seems it really is stay and embrace celibacy or leave. I'm 50 now and although sex is still important to me, it's not like I'm in this situation at 30, I guess. Both my kids have mental health problems and getting divorced would destabilise them. Also, I'd really miss my wife because i love her and I think she probably loves me in her way. My job is so busy and stressful I don't think I could cope with destabilised home life, as I also suffer from anxiety and physical disabilities. I couldn't leave my job as I'd never find anything else as well-paid as that which I currently do, so I need the strength and stability of my relationship to get out there every day and perform. So, I suppose you could call it a marriage of convenience, but there is genuine love there (from my side). All your answers have been really helpful.

agree.
If I were the OP I'd also ignore all the stuff from the judgemental folk pretending to see inside the wife's mind when they are I think talking about their own minds. It's extremely common on here - the LTB crowd. Amongst some good empathetic advice from folks who actually read the posts and show signs of caring for OPs, there is way too much stuff from folks with a personal axe to grind.
In many ways it's a terrible place to come for advice - I fear it has trashed a fair few relationships - to much cheering from the galleries.
Agree with poster who said that this is about intimacy as well as sex.

100% agree.
but it’s MN, far too many people just want people leave their partners most of the time.

Those are not the only two options available but if it helps you to act like they are, then that's great. You seem more at peace with your decision to stay and accept celibacy already. It's definitely a better option than staying and being unhappy about the celibacy

Is there a middle ground? So no intercource or penetrative her but would she touch you so you could experience some physical intimacy?
I'm not suggesting you just ask for a BJ (they're quite hard work BTW) but could you kiss whilst you touch yourself, maybe caress your balls or give you a hand job, even if you finished it. If she's she'd away from all physical intimacy it could be that she feels you'll expect more. If you make it clear that all you want is to be touched, and maybe a kiss and a bit of closeness then I think if you have an otherwise good relationship she'll oblique. It doesn't seem an u reasonable request. You're forgoing intercourse and touching her, but you're also foregoing straying or leaving her.
Has she said you should leave her?

But don't any of you guys who are happily in relationships ever speak or message an ex-boyfriend. Is that really a dealbreaker?

Can you not see how you're minimising things?

You isn't just speak to / message an ex. You proactively messaged her complimenting her appearance.

Completely different to a general chit chat.

@studyinscarlet

Would you both accept going to Relate? They do have sexual counsellors who while they would start from that might discover other underlying issues.

It would be a neutral area in which to have focussed discussions as to any "future"

And to be clear I doubt that has anything to do with your current situation, it doesn't sound like a massive deal. I'm just saying that comparing it to 'just' catching up with an ex is a bit disingenuous when you messaged proactively to compliment her appearance.

You don’t sound sure she loves you and there are no hand holds or hugs. I think if she was going through the menopause and explained this to you but tried to be intimate then I’d say that there was hope. However sounds like your relationship intimacy wise is very much dead and it is a marriage of convenience. Don’t have an affair though because that will cause too much pain for everyone including yourself.

"we do already hug alot"

There is nothing anyone can say that you don’t already know. You have no good choices but you still have to make a choice. Stay and never have sex again with all the emotional and spiritual loss of that, leave and try to find another relationship ( probably not that hard as there are few decent single men your age), or cheat with all the pain that will bring your wife if she finds out, plus the fact you will be living two half lives instead of one full one.

Staying and hoping things will change, or staying and requesting sex is not an option. Your wife has been honest and clear with you.

This is high on the list for reasons for divorce! You’re only 50 for goodness sake. I think you should broach the topic of an open marriage. It’s not right for her to expect you to just your nice bits 😉for urinating and self pleasure only for the rest of your life as long as you’re married. It’s incredibly frustrating and could drive you to resentment of her.
she either agrees to an open marriage under terms ‘co-signed’ by you both, or you file for divorce….or cheat 🤷🏾‍♀️

Lordy what a panic and a spin everyone gets in when a woman says no … 🙄

Suddenly she’s ‘cruel’ ‘selfish’ and should be instantly abandoned as being worthless. What a load of misogynist bollocks. Lots of women go off sex during the menopause. Lots of women never liked sex and the lack of oestrogen gives them the honestly to finally admit it. Lots of women carry on having sex and endure pain and unpleasantness.

A woman should be able say ‘no more’ without judgement. A lifelong marriage and love is more than just sex. Yes it’s clearly important to the defensive posters but middle-aged sexless (or duty sex) marriages are very common.