Think I need to leave .....

[Eteiene]

I'm torn between thinking I'm over reacting to all this ( and it'll just blow over) or it's down to "stress"/ depression ....or I don't know what ..

And thinking I need to leave my relationship..

It gets complicated looking for outside help or support from local women's aid as ironically my husband works ( and therefore has friends and colleagues) in a connected area ..so I feel even more trapped...

I'm wondering if I'm being oversensitive and melodramatic to think his behaviour is "abusive" but there have been lots of things that have happened over the years ( and escalated lately) that make me question it ...

Of course any time I've raised how I've felt about any of the behaviour ( silent treatment for days/ weeks on end, sulking, mocking/ rolling eyes, passive aggressive comments , swearing and storming off when things have happened that are frustrating but he takes as intentional and " to get at him" ( eg if I've lost something, dropped something, need to go back in the house to grab something I've forgotten, lots of other examples but that level of things ...I think he thinks I'm an idiot ...)

There's been a handful of times he has grabbed things off me when angry and then if I've been upset he's got even more angry and silent..and then blamed me like I'm stupid for being upset ...or like he'll suddenly change and be seethingly angry if I get in the car and drive in silence then he'll be all nice to people we are going to see .... Or I'll hear him on a work call all jolly and chatty and he won't say more than 2 words to me all evening I get short, clipped angry replies and "nothing" if I ask what's wrong ...

Everything I do I feel is wrong or I'm second guessing myself ...there's lots more examples but don't want to "out" myself publicly ....not that I think he'd be looking on Mumsnet but I don't know what anything anymore really ...

I don't easily have anywhere that I can go and I'm worried I'm just making a big deal out of nothing ...

But the feeling in the pit of my stomach everyday when I hear his keys in the door ...I don't know ...

Is there any friends or family who can help?
None. My DDs adore him. But once someone has shown me the how then I can keep going and that's slowly happening. I'm well aware that the worst is yet to come and I have to live here with him until the house is sold. That is my only escape.

You should contact women's aid again after a week. I know they were very busy last year when I tried but they did verify that he was abusive and that I was downplaying it. It really does help to be heard.

It's the feeling I'm betraying him by even thinking about leaving let alone saying these things ..like he has no idea.....
That is what had me spinning too. It didn't help when the local refuge group tried to get me to make a police report detailing the abuse, they were quite insistent actually but I was like wtf, he hasn't hit me, why do I need to do that? I cant prove anything as there are no witnesses not even the DDs. That was something I had never noticed before and it gave me another little nudge towards the door as I now see how underhand and manipulative he has been.

Keep posting, keep reading, keep asking questions, keep those eyes opened

Xposted.
I tried women's aid again today ...nothing yet .... I'm worried they'll think I'm stupid and making a huge fuss over nothing and " normal" relationship issues that I should be able to sort out myself ....
That was me. I reread your first post. That was me. They said I was 100% in an abusive relationship. But honestly you can leave for any reason. Have you had enough? If so start looking at the practicalities and break them down into manageable parts.

Finances
Look at the benefits calculator.
See a solicitor regarding what you are entitled to.
Stop having joint account/get your own

Housing - Now and After
Rental or owned? Who by? How easy to split it?
How much deposit do you need?
What is available in your area for what you can afford, not want. Downsize your expectations.
What is the bare minimum you would take? I wanted to take all the furniture that was inherited, gifted or bought by me - then sentimental items only - then he can keep the lot, I just want a suitcase of clothes and my medication. My needs and desires have changed dramatically this year. If he lets me take more then great but its not worth my mental health fighting for it.

Children and/or pets.

What paperwork do you need?

Once you know what you have/need to do that is when you can make plans. Decide to stay. Decide to postpone. Decide to leave immediately. It will empower you, especially if you've found a good solicitor in your initial consult. One who understands what you want and is thinking how is the best way to get it rather than a yes we can do that. You don't want a yes solicitor, you want one who will say no that way is 2yrs and 30k.

Ugh, long post. Sorry!

He's doing just enough to keep you tied up in knots by the sounds of it. That's just not nice is it? It's not how we treat people that we want to see thrive and grow.

Just enough. Take these crumbs, chucked resentfully at you because I could sense a shift...

I could have my view skewed by my own experience here but the holiday thing came up when mine knew something had changed. Having never wanted to book anything in advance, suddenly a holiday planned a few months off? And it was for me to go...erm...no? And get the second degree as to why I was so awful that I couldn't even commit to a holiday (in my case because I obviously didn't love him and how fucking awful was I etc etc).

Avoid the holiday talk. It's a trap...

Thank you both .
@Pixiedust1234
It's so hard isn't it when you are weighing up who will be impacted by leaving but I keep telling myself too im no good to anyone if I lose "myself" through this ( which is the direction it's felt it's heading).
That's a great list of things to figure out and work through ..I'm lucky in that I work full time so could afford rent/ mortgage in future if needed on my own ..
I'll give women's aid a ring next week again I can only imagine how busy they must be ...

Good luck to you, you are making brave steps.

@Beenhereforever1978 that's what it feels like ..crumbs and confusion and just enough "nice" for the previous month's not to feel quite so "real" or jarring anymore ....

How did you get on writing down history?

What you may notice like I did, it was a cycle of nice and hatred. This could be that, it's just enough to make you doubt until the next time then it repeats. I can tell you from my experience, that cycle year after year your lose your mind and sense of reality, I did and I was severely mentally impacted and nobody could tell me why. I'm now seemingly cured.

With the holiday, days before mine showed me true self I was guilted into purchasing a holiday in advance. Now, I've paid for that holiday and I'm not even going, they will likely now take the children without me while I'm going through courts to regain access.

Think too, is he worrying himself to insanity about how you are feeling or what he's done? I suspect not and honestly, these kind of people tick on a completely different way to everyone else. Something is missing inside, void and they can do whatever they like without recourse. You on the other hand...

The best thing I read that described it was a chocolate Easter bunny. Nice on the outside but completely hollow on the inside.

You can lea s for any reason at all. Or for no reason.

It's entirely in your power to say 'I don't want this as a relationship'. For yourself or as a template for any children.

You know this is wrong, in your heart you know that.

But he's not the boss. He's not in charge.

And you can leave.

Thank you . I need to keep reminding myself I have power in this. No kids (just the 4 legged kind!!) ..but you are right I can do this for myself as much as anyone else...

I just feel frozen sometimes imagining his reaction to me saying I want to leave...

Thank you @JibbaJab
Thats a good description of it - nice vs hollow. And no I don't think he is worrying at all about it, or if he is it's not to the extent I am and he is worrying about different things.. no acknowledgement of the impact of any of this and all of it is being blamed on me..

I started the list... ..I'm torn between thinking there's a clear pattern (All of these things have been going on for years ) , and thinking maybe it's me that's caused this (or at least not stood up for myself) or perhaps none of it is really that bad...

Grabbing things off me when angry/frustrated (a handful of times) then blaming me for why he has done it (not listening to him/ being distracted, not doing things "right"...so a stroppy "I'll just do it" way of whatever I'm trying to help with) .

Road rage, driving in seething silence the second I get in the car (no idea what's set him off) , swearing (Calling other drivers a "btch or a cnt" if they don't thank him for letting them pass or get in the way ) .

silent treatment for hours, days on end.. (months sometimes of very limited interaction ranging from not saying hello if I come in to minimal "fine , you?" if I ask how the days been and that's all the conversation I get ..)

blaming me for things- saying I never listen to him or care, accusing me of things that aren't true or my fault..

snapping at me to do (or not do ) things ...eg. where I'm standing or walking when out (not always just when he's in one of those moods)

openly ignoring or being angry if I'm crying... angry if I'm crying at something he's done (eg. being humiliated in front of people or ignored) ..

passive aggressive talking about me but not to me... sarcasm... (but not in a lighthearted way , in a hurtful way )

Other times he is nice...like he is trying.... or trying to please me or be nice...

Im sorry to hear you are going through this. Your partner is a narcissist.Try looking into the topic of relationships with them, you will likely find a lot of useful information as to how to get out of it. My personal view, therapy with a decent psychologist is the way out. They will support you and guide you.

Remember - you don't have to tell them.

I didn't, I judged it was safer not to.

I just packed up and left while they were at work one day. My heart was pounding non stop for about 6 hours while I was packing up. A neighbour came out and I told them we were going on holiday but still worried they'd somehow contact me.

I had a great friend with me, otherwise I'm not sure I'd have got through it and I'm no shrinking violet normally. But as soon as I was out I felt soo much better. Free and I could relax. It's taken a long time though to feel like I'm in charge of my own life again.

He rang me as soon as he got home and saw my stuff gone. He was furious but it was great because I could hang up then turn my phone off. He drove past where I was a few times (I didn't tell him where I'd gone but he guessed).

It truly sounds horrific.

You poor woman accepting this when you don't even have the tie of children.

Really heartbreaking and horrifyingly sad.

Yeah that's the same kind of stuff I have had the entire time, although it did at times turn physical but mostly emotional and psychological.

I have the patience of a saint and I like to work and fix things so I kinda excused it and hoped it would get better but it actually got worse.

The silent treatment is the worst out of them all to me. Mine went to the point where I was shunned and the children were in the spotlight and made it obvious. I was then a ghost, I wasn't allowed to interact, the children couldn't speak to me and used to walk past me as if I wasn't there.

What you need to think is you can't make anyone behave in a certain way, that's not on you. Do you act the same when it's happening to you, or do you have control of yourself?

Look up narcissistic abuse cycle and narcissistic abuse syndrome, I'm fairly confident that's what I've been dealing with. There's a fairly good channel on YouTube called 'Understanding Narcissism'. Videos are short but concise and kinda explains how it is.

Like you, everything was my fault even things out of control and each time it just got brushed over but should I have an opinion that went against, I was then deemed the awful person.

But yes as others have said be wary of discussing things because for me at least it got 100x worse. I made the fatal mistake of calling them out and unmasking and now I am enemy number one and a totally new persona and narrative has been created as a result.

I'm another guy that agrees with the other guys.

I was raised by a mother who suffered at the hands of abusive people and having raised two daughters who don't speak to their mother for that reason, I can tell you that you must break the cycle and leave.
It is not men or women who are worse or capable but people are very good at hurting people. I have just left an abusive relationship for all the reasons you describe above. Stupidly on my part, after being in surgery and been very ill from an accident for over a year, dropped my guard and at my lowest point. I said things back to my Ex-SO to try to regain some control in my life and all it does is backfire.
I have sent 6 months prepping to leave her, to not have to live under silent treatment, dismissive behaviour and constant negativity. When she found out it got worse, the cycle escalated when she heard me planning with a removal company for a quick escape with my belongings. At this point i experienced an almost demonic alteration in her character who then made all sorts of accusations.
Their whole life is about control and being in a situation that suits their narcissistic needs. They will do whatever they want and then when you want to live your life, you won't be allowed to and the cycle of abuse will increase to the point where you will feel suicidal and lost.
I wish you luck, it's hard to escape because we want to see the best in people. Once you go, you will only miss the illusion of the person you thought they were and very quickly remember how horrific their real character is.

I have started counselling but there's quite a lot of focus on what he might be thinking , how I could "communicate" etc...and how my actions may have contributed to him feeling ( reading between the lines/ my interpretation " justifiably" angry). I feel like the counsellor is wanting me to either stand up for myself a bit more and/ or put in more effort to try and get the relationship back on track. ....it makes me feel worse a lot of the time as I then question maybe whether all the behaviour is okay and I'm making a big deal out of nothing ....

The thought of not telling him.im.leaving feels more dangerous and frightening than doing it with him knowing .... I feel trapped ....and then crazy for feeling trapped when he's being so nice and "normal" ...
I'm glad you got out and your friends helped ....I know mine would if I asked them too ...

Hi love,

This is doing my nut in. How about getting a plan together?

The counsellor sounds shit.

Can you do a CAADA risk assessment on yourself? (Google it) Not ideal at all but a start - be honest and then count the ticks.

If you are scared tho and walking on eggshells, then he is abusing his power over you and that's that. You're living with DV and it's either carries on and gets worse, or you take action and leave.

So then it's exit plan time.

Tell me what your goals would be - would you like to tell him honestly and plan it, and then slide away amicably and that's that?

Or would you like to do it one day out of the blue?

How do you think he would respond to any of these scenarios?

If the goal is -
To become safer - you'll need to ens this relationship
To tell him - it may not go well and he might do anything to keep you
To not tell him and do it behind his back - what about when he finds out? Well, having orchestrated TONS of these, you manage it by a) leaving a note b) blocking all forms of comms from him c) threatening and then USING the police when he does make contact and d) asking friends and family not to pass on any info to or from you.

It absolutely can be done.

I do wish you had a DV advisor because half the battle is understanding it and talking it all through.

I know I go round in circles a lot on it all ...honestly though if you knew him he presents this front to everyone like he is so nice and kind (and he has been/can be don't get me wrong) or any "bad mood " (aka sulking/ silent treatment) is due to work/ stress/ (or more recently as I've found out according to him "Me" ) .

I've googled the risk assessment (Actually had a look the other day as well) - there are "only" 4 risks - mainly to feeling the emotional side of things has escalated and got worse (frequency of sarcasm/ silent treatment/ body language to intimidate) and more frequent. My feelings of fear (mostly his reactions which feel completely out of kilter to the situation in front of me and how hateful he has become and irrational at times ( in terms of how he sees me) and the impact on me (fear, anxiety, depression etc.)

Exit wise, my preference would be to plan , talk to him about what I'm doing and why and then have somewhere to go pretty immediately (ie. I'd have to have sorted it out in advance) because I feel like I can't predict how he would react.. I don't think it will escalate to physical violence ... but.... I just don't feel like I can make a judgement anymore on how he will see/ react to things...

I did buy the freedom programme (on the advice of WA chat) and the more I go through that there is so much I can identify with . I went to counselling initially , much more certain that I was experiencing emotional abuse (at least that..) and now a couple of months down the line feel like I'm not getting something about the relationship "right" ..

I will phone women's aid again tomorrow- they only have an answerphone any time I've rung , I've left a message once but don't want to bombard them..

I think I need to spend the next few weeks planning the exit...

I know I post going round in circles on here.. it's just hard especially while it's not "as bad" (he suggested we go out for a meal today and I feel like such a liar / so awful as I'm also writing on here/ thinking about how I leave) . Weekends are particularly difficult when he is home...

My best friend is coming to stay in a couple of weeks and he is away ... she could help me sort some of the stuff (I wouldn't leave at that stage) but it could be another head/ pair of eyes on what I need to sort out!!

Well done - progress made xxx

OK so the risk assessment was four - people often think that emotional abuse is 'low end' but it is absolutely not.

So your plan then is to leave and find somewhere else to live.

And your friend is coming to help think it through - excellent.

Have you started a list anywhere, of tasks you need to complete? Just add anything and everything to it.

As for staying safe at home, I'd suggest two things - 1) be quiet and avoid him, long baths, read in bed, early nights, cooking in different room - anything to avoid him and 2) go with his flow to keep the peace, and say little / be good to keep things on an even keel and avoid abuse. If he starts wondering what's up, just toe his line and patronise him to keep yourself safe, until you can slide off.

When it comes to actually leaving him, will you prepare the place to go to and pack behind his back? Or will you tell him and think you can pack under his nose with all the abuse going on?

One thing I really would advise is to get things out of the house now that he could harm to punish you, like precious photos or jewellery etc. If he grabs your clothes while you are packing, at least he is not grabbing your grandma's engagement ring and slinging it out of the window, or your one and only baby photo.

Thy say that the point of actually leaving - when you have told him and start packing - is THE most dangerous time of all - he will use any and all tactics to make you stay - we don't tend to advise telling for this reason but sometimes I understand the feeling that we want to do the right thing by them - even when they have NOT done the right thing by us - and it is that last bit that gets me every time - why are you going to be good to him and consider his feelings when he blights your life with his moodiness and threatening behaviour?

There are all sorts of ways out you know and you won't recognise yourself when he is no longer leering over you. x

But for now, well done - and just let everything he says slide off your back like water - yes sir / no sir / three bags full sir - and don't take anything he says to heart x

I know I post going round in circles on here.. it's just hard especially while it's not "as bad" (he suggested we go out for a meal today and I feel like such a liar / so awful as I'm also writing on here/ thinking about how I leave) . Weekends are particularly difficult when he is home...

You are thinking out loud, looking at the problem to see if you have missed anything. And that's good.

Start looking at things slightly differently. He suggested a meal. You both have to eat and this way there is no cleaning up to do so don't feel bad. I went on holiday with mine and two adult children. My thoughts were 1) probably the last time 2) children would ask why I didn't go 3) it was already paid for 4) I might be liable for half the credit card debt anyway 5) who knows whether he would angrily berate me or shrug his shoulders.

You do what you feel is safe for you to do, even if it feels underhand or sneaky. You wouldn't have to do that if he was a reasonable, normal man, and it's only for a short while.

Thank you. I wouldn't ever say to anyone else that emotional abuse was okay or less serious... but I constantly question myself maybe I'm misreading it/ over exaggerating, misreading tone etc..

Because I have absolutely "behaved myself " (in his eyes) for the last couple of months in terms of , like you say, dancing to exactly what he wants... he's been nicer... which makes it even harder to feel justified in leaving (it would have been easier in some ways to have gone earlier in the year where he was being silent/ sulking/ angry all the time) .

But yes.... I think finding somewhere so the majority of what I need can go into it before I tell him would be the plan.. I've moved sentimental items somewhere safe out of the house already ...

Something else ( rather than us going out for dinner) happened last night (not against me but similar behaviour towards someone else and completely justified by him) that felt like it had drawn a line for me....

I'm starting to make a list of what I need (other than my stuff/ sentimental stuff) :
Marriage certificate/ passport/ insurances for various things.
Work stuff .
Will order medications extra beds food for the dogs (think one of my friends could store this if I needed to go anywhere immediately .
Changing passwords ...this feels overwhelming no idea what he might know/ guess..
Searching for somewhere to rent.
Speaking again to solicitors (I did do this a few months ago )

I feel as well like I'm not sure how he will react .. either towards me (genuinely don't think he has any idea this is coming) or in terms of whether he might just get really low in himself ... I feel like I need to make sure there's some support for him ... although I know that's not my "Job" .....

Got a call from Women's Aid today but couldn't talk as he was home... they said they'd ring back this afternoon but haven't so I'm hoping maybe I'll get a call tomorrow..I'm just worried it will either make it feel more real (or they'll be things that are taken out of my hands.. )

But yes my friend coming up in a couple of weeks there will also be time to help think through things...

Thank you @Pixiedust1234
It's a good reminder it's not forever and it's for a reason I'm doing things this way....

Just remember you don't have to justify anything to leave. You don't need to be sure that things are "bad enough" for you to go. It doesn't matter if other people think he's nice and will be surprised if you leave him. People say all the time that it's "not that bad" so they feel like they can't/shouldn't leave, but that's fine, leave because you don't want to be in a relationship with him anymore. There is no threshhold of badness that any relationship needs to meet in order for it to end. Anyone can leave any relationship, for any reason, at any time. You don't owe anyone an explanation, (especially him, he's never going to agree with you anyway, so what purpose could it serve?)
Don't let a false obligation of justification prevent you from doing what you know will make your life better.

I know this logically , and don't get me wrong I've left shorter term relationships earlier in life for this... I think I just overly question myself as it's been SO many years now whilst it's slowly crept it's way up to something that now feels completely unfathomable and alien to me........... at the same time as inescapable.

I know it isn't inescapable, and talking here is prompting me to take some actual real action too - so to anyone reading this who has commented or just read, honestly thank you ...

I've booked a solicitors appt for next week as well as a viewing for somewhere to rent (wouldn't be for a couple of months if it even comes off but they would allow the dogs.....) .
I spoke with the national WA but the local one to me still haven't been back in touch - it'd be a different one if I did move to this new place but not sure if they'd be able to work with me before moving.... I might ring them and ask ..

I know I'm doing the right thing .... and then I get hit by a pang of when things were (or seemed? ) "good" there wasn't the constant walking on eggshells and wonder if I "should" be more sympathetic to whatever's going on for him... but I've made plans with friends for this weekend and am thinking about the need to put me first (even though this is one of his biggest arguments that I am "selfish" "Only think of my own needs" don't compromise etc... ) .

If I do find somewhere to move, it doesn't feel safe to tell him before.... despite the fact that everything that feels "moral" and "ethical" in me is telling me I should try (again ) to talk it though , reminds me of marriage vows of "for better for worse" , wonders how much "in sickness " (I'm sure he is not happy or well mentally right now either...) and health" should count....

I feel very conflicted.. but trying to listen to my gut, which I don't think is wrong.....

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to comment, it's really made me think more as well as take some concrete action.

Eteiene