What the fuck am I going to do?

[Richandstrange]

I have posted about this before (under another name) but things feel like they're coming to a head now and I still have no idea what to do. Basically my stepdad was a creepy perv around me when I was growing up and my DM turned a blind eye and dismissed me when I tried to raise it with her. I've pushed it down inside me for years and 'tolerated' him for the sake of my relationship with DM but he recently said something to me on the phone which has brought it all back to the surface and left me unable to stand speaking to or being in the same room as him.

This is getting difficult with DM now, I haven't seen her for weeks (she lives 10 minutes drive away) and she's obviously questioning why and badgering me to get together. But they come as a package (both retired) and I genuinely don't think I can be around him, the thought makes me feel physically ill. And I can't tell her what he said because she'll minimise and defend him and I will feel even worse than I already do.

I'm not sure why I've reacted as strongly as I have, probably because what he said involved my teenage daughter, but it's like I literally can't pretend everything's ok anymore. If I'm honest part of me wants to walk away from the pair of them, I'm almost as angry with DM as I am with him for dismissing me all those years ago but we've always been close despite all that and I'm not sure I can do that to her now, she's in her 70's and not in the best of health. I also think I will be made out to be hysterical, she has very different views to me about (for example) the Me Too movement and historical SA cases in the media and I know she will think I'm making something out of nothing.

I know it must look like an easy fix, go NC and don't look back but that would utterly devastate my DM and, despite everything I've written here, I'm not sure I can do that to her, she's been a good mum in lots of other ways. I feel so stressed about it all I'm genuinely worried about my MH and the pressure to see DM is mounting, I just feel like it's all approaching boiling point and I have no idea what to do.

Also it's worth pointing out that everyone, including women, may have been affected by the shit standards of behaviour and minimisation and acceptance of sexual harassment and abuse in the past ..... But views have changed and are different today. Many many women have changed their views and recognise that it was not right, and have contemporary views now. Regardless of age.

Op's mother has not.

That says a lot about her.

Would it be worth writing it all down in a letter to her? I think sometimes things said in heightened emotions don't come out in the way you mean them to or aren't heard by the recipient as they're still processing what's been said earlier. A letter she can read and re-read and think about what you say calmly, over time. tell her everything and tell her what you want for your relationship with her going forward.

She shouldn't have the views she has on metoo and historic child sex abuse cases.now.

She shouldn't continue to think her husband's behaviour was ok, she should have apologised to op, and should (at the very least) shit him down/make it clear it's unacceptable and won't be tolerated. Plenty of older people have says sorry for past poor behaviour that is recognised more as wrong now. But no, she's not done any of those things, and continues to hold reprehensible views about sexual abuse and rape/assault.

I think you can still have a relationship with her as long as you set boundaries when it comes to her denial. She is an adult and she has chosen to live in denial. The denial is HER problem now. When you were young, she basically manipulated you into going along with the lie. But you’ve outgrown it.

I think she can probably handle a bit of the truth- that you don’t want to see her husband again. If she really pushes you for reasons you can tell her the truth. “I know you don’t like hearing this, but…”

I had something similar in my own family- it’s painful, but just because someone’s older and had a hard life doesn’t mean they get to impose lies on everyone else, especially when it causes harm.

This x 100.

You could look into charities or helplines for victims of sexual abuse or even the Samaritans if you need to talk about it whilst DH is away. Saying things out loud is an incredibly effective way of taking away their power instantly.

OP I hear you.

I've spent some time coming to terms with the SA I endured as a child. In some ways DM did act, but untimately I was failed by all adults involved. Some was denial, some was ignorance, and some was the way things were dealt with in the early 80s Ireland. Nobody explained to me, I was just harshly told to stay away from the man (who I never willingly went to in the first place, as it was only ever parents sending me to him with errands) and I remember being very confused and ashamed at the time for reasons I couldn't articulate - I was a child and didn't have the vocabulary. It was only in therapy that I managed to put some sort of narrative of my own on it. They were told I was so young, I'd forget. I never have but did bury it for years of my childhood until a pervy neighbourhood dad tried to touch me and it triggered the memories again. I felt much like you feel now.

DM has forgotten. It hurts when she says that of all the things she's proudest of, was that none of her children "were interfered with" She's jokingly compared my baby son to my abuser. And yet, we've discussed it, when I was a teen, and when I was an adult, but she always seems to default back to forgetting - and I never understood how she could do that. If it was me, I'd lie awake raging at the fucker that touched my child forever, imagining all the ways I'd hurt him. What @GarlicGrace says in her first post resonates strongly with me, I know DM was SA by her step-grandfather. She mentioned it once and then clammed up denying it ever happened. So it gives me some insight into the reasons why they brushed what happened to me under the carpet.

However that's only one part of my upbringing and relationship with my mother that I'm unpicking. Oddly enough, I've recently discovered that two of my siblings are also on their own unpicking path. Our parents were adequate I suppose. But they damaged us emotionally due to their own beliefs and ignorance, and in DM's case, I've come to suspect that she's got an extremely low IQ /EQ, which obviously limited her parenting abilities.

She's almost 80 and has various serious health issues. So I know there's no point in trying to bring it out into the open, and it's frankly not worth the hassle of going NC or LC for the few years she may have left. She wouldn't even understand if I tried to explain to her. Therapy some years ago helped me a lot.

I don't have any suggestions to add to the excellent ones upthread but wanted to let you know you aren't alone, and that I understand your dilema - and hope you find a solution that brings you peace.

When I was 16 my Dad's BIL (second marriage) squeezed my bum in a 'jokey way'. I remember how uncomfortable I felt and I told my Dad immediately. His response was to shrug it off and say 'that's just what he's like, it was a joke'.

My Dad has been great in lots of other ways and this is one incident over 20 years ago, but it still bothers me he thought that was fine so I can only imagine how you must feel with having to live with someone like that and a parent minimising it.

It's easy for others to say 'just cut contact'. It took me two decades to cut my mother out after being both emotionally and physically abusive my whole life (the physical stuff wasn't all the time so that was another thing brushed under the carpet, even when she punched me while I was holding my baby it was a kind of 'that's just what she's like sometimes when she loses control').

Agree with PP's that counselling would be a good first step. And of course only seeing your DM separately while you work through your feelings.

Also please read up on FOG (fear, obligation, guilt). I remember being blindsided when someone suggested it on here. I found it difficult to process at first but once I had, it helped me understand why I kept making excuses for my parent which, with kindness, is exactly what you are doing with your DM.

I think you have counselled yourself pretty well OP. You have unpicked it all well and with lots of empathy for your mum.
And from what you say, you have a raised a sensible, confident, well-informed, worldly-wise dd.
However you do need professional help for the next bit which is telling your mum exactly why you will only see her on her own. It’s time to reveal your own feelings now after pushing them down for so long.
You already understand that while your relationship with her as it is, is good, it is also hiding a lie. So now that it’s crunch time, either your mum has to be faced with the facts or you have to keep the lie going to the detriment of your own mental health and at risk to your relationship with your dd who already knows this is wrong.
I think your fear is knowing that, given an ultimatum, your mum won’t do the right thing. She will want to protect her DH and won’t agree to seeing you alone for the reasons you give her.
Her rejection of your feelings is hard to face up to. It’s as hard for her to give him up as it is for you to give her up. But she is the one who has to find the way forward now.
I'm glad you have the support of your DH and your dd.
Please take your time, don’t rush into anything for fear of keeping her waiting.
But be determined in your refusal to see him.
In the meantime try to budget for some progressional support.
When your mum kicks back, tell her you are seeking counselling and have been advised to only see her on her own until you are feeling better and more confident about everything and can understand your own feelings properly. Put the ball in her court. It’s not too much to ask her to see you without him for an hour here and there and to respect your wishes on this.
Good luck OP.

I have something very similar going on with a situation that awakened previous buried childhood /teen feelings. I recall feeling elated that I had decided to go NC but it later dawned on me what the reality of that NC actually meant to my life.

For me it meant no more family gatherings and this has impacted my children as they don't get to go either. I don't attend family parties (and there are lots).

This has been going on for a year or so and it preys on my mind constantly. Everyday I think about this situation. It's draining and worrying. I worry about seeing this person because I have called them out for aggressive bullying, controlling behaviour and they would rather cut me off than apologise to the person they have mistreated (who I am defending).

Everyone one else turns the other cheek. They say - you know what he's like, what do you expect to get out of this, just forget it....

Ah yes, I see.

I still think though, bum pinching your own teenage step daughter was taboo back then though, surely? I dont ever recall that being thought of as "normal" or just a bit of fun or a joke. Also the leering and pulling on to his lap is creepy AF. I dont think that can be thought of as the norm or acceptable even back then. So it does indicate concern that the mother didnt flag that as unacceptable behaviour. I think its possible to accept that both can be true- the culture was very different then but also, that doesnt really fully explain her brushing it off either. There are women who prioritise their partners over their children and this is what it sounds like is happening here, culture taken into account.

I had similar issues with my stepdad. His violence was my main concern but the suggestive comments, accidentally interrupting me in the bathroom etc were also an issue.
He's dead now and I sometimes wonder what mine and my mum's relationship would have been like had he not died when he did.
I work indirectly with victims of abuse now and am very aware we were the victims. My mum was a domestic abuse victim. She was trapped like many are and she protected me as much as she was able. I don't blame my mum, I blame the culture that enabled him and made her feel powerless and I blame SD for being abusive, angry and cruel.
I don't have to deal with it as an ongoing issue unlike you. I'd like to think I could deal with it compassionately and maturely. Explain my position (as little contact with SD as possible) and seeing her on her own when I could.
Why should you lose your mum because of him?

Yes, this. It's on her, not you.

I've had a similar situation.

I have a sister who is quite a lot older than me, and her partner is 9 years older than her, so there's quite an age gap.
They got together when I was in my mid-teens. My sister was in her mid-30s and her partner had just turned 40.
He used to contact me privately, and say things like "I'll send you the money for a spending spree, if you buy some knickers and then send me the receipt." Or "I'll buy you a new phone if you wear a short dress the next time we meet up." That went on, one and off until I was in my early 20s, until I basically told him I thought he was a creepy gross perv and didn't like him.
Since then, I've kept contact with him as low as possible - whilst still maintaining a good relationship with my sister - and nowadays we generally muddle along reasonably well and I see him about 3 times a year.

But then he started getting friendly with a cousin of ours. A cousin that he'd maybe met 5 times, in larger family gatherings, in the past 15 years. Said cousin just happens to have a step-daughter, who is about 18-19, and absolutely beautiful. And then he's taking them on family trips to London, overnights in good hotels, front row seats at the ballet, etc etc. And it morphed into "Oh, I'm happy to take "step-daughter" to the theatre any time she likes! Tickets on me!" There also started to be murmurings of him taking the younger 2 girl cousins, who are, 10-11yos.

Did I email my cousin to warn her about his previous behaviour towards me at the same sort of age? OF COURSE I DID. I figure that women should protect women, and I'm sorry no one did that for you OP.

I'm pleased to report that there have been no further trips between cousin, her daughters, and creepy dude.

You do what you need to do to keep yourself and your DD safe.

Hi OP. I think psychotherapy might be useful if you have the money available. It helped me to unpick and figure things out in a way that brought new clarity and a way forward. My situation was different but I can relate to the feeling of not quite being able to see what was wrong and to articulate it. And to see the impact on me then and now.

I think being frank with your mum about the experience you had growing up, and the fact that he is now showing the same behaviours (as far as he can) towards your daughter, will be hugely freeing.

Yes, she should have known already but parents can be spectacularly good at overlooking things*. Once it's out in the open, the ball's in her court. It should be possible for you to see your mum on her own, and if anyone is left out of family gatherings it should be him.

I'm so glad you've been clear with your daughter than "grandad" is a creepy twat who should be avoided at all costs.

*I didn't have your experience but there was definitely a creepy "uncle" and a verbally abusive "uncle" - my parents suddenly developed a realisation about this when I was about... 30??? But mum will still speak fondly about me "giving as good as I got" with verbally abusive uncle - which means trying my best to argue back when he said horrible things to me at a very young primary school age.

I'm so sorry op, we had a "family friend" who did to me and my sisters what you describe your stepdad doing.
It's so difficult when they do it right infront of the ones who are meant to protect you, you feel confused because you hate it and everyone is acting like it's ok, so when it carries on in private as well you really don't know whether it's wrong or right even when it's pushed a bit further.. makes my blood boil now.
I have so many mixed feelings towards my mum (who has now passed) because she could be a lovely mum but she was at times a terrible mum and having kids myself it has made me see how bad some of the bad bits were.
Just know what he did is very wrong and he's an utterly disgusting man, he is a creep and your mum should have told him to cut it out and get out, she didn't and you are allowed to be pissed off about that so don't let either of them tell you otherwise.
I think the pain will never truly go so I just try to forge on with my life now and focus on my husband and kids so I've no advice really as im a push it in a box kinda person as well, probably terribly unhealthy and if you can afford therapy do whatever you need to feel better and not let the bastards in life bring you down.

OP not sure if anyone else has already answered you, but you can now self-refer for mental health care support without needing your GP. In my experience (south east) it was very quick and helpful.

I agree with this.

That generation did grow up in a culture of absolute sexism where pinching/slapping girls' bums was normalised

What generation? I'm assuming I'm broadly in the same age bracket as OP. Sure, a culture of sexism was tolerated more so than now. No, pinching / slapping girls' bums was not normalised. Either in my own or my parents' generation.

it is important to understand cultural norms as well to understand how she may have turned a blind eye.

No. Definitely not. Any good mother would have protected their daughter from what OP experienced, regardless of timing or culture. Talk about making excuses!

just the OP clearly wants a relationship with her mother and some of the comments here are suggesting that's wrong in itself.

No they are not. They are trying to help OP realise that while there may be reasons for her mother's inaction, it was wrong, and OP needs to prioritise her own well-being. This might mean limiting her contact with her mother.

OP what sort of comment was it, something about her appearance ? Something lecherous ? Really I think you need to tell your mother, depending on what he said she may find it easy or less easy to dismiss . Eg “what a beautiful young girl” in a lecherous tone, may be really easy for her to shrug off, compared to something that in black and white is not ok, eg not tone of voice dependent.
But your mother needs to know, how she deals with it is not your problem. Having back up from other family members might help maybe ?

I am thinking of the father of a friend, he was raping her, and tried to groom me. On paper his comments were pretty innocuous, and yet horrible to receive because of the creepy tone and intent behind them.