What the fuck am I going to do?

[Richandstrange]

I have posted about this before (under another name) but things feel like they're coming to a head now and I still have no idea what to do. Basically my stepdad was a creepy perv around me when I was growing up and my DM turned a blind eye and dismissed me when I tried to raise it with her. I've pushed it down inside me for years and 'tolerated' him for the sake of my relationship with DM but he recently said something to me on the phone which has brought it all back to the surface and left me unable to stand speaking to or being in the same room as him.

This is getting difficult with DM now, I haven't seen her for weeks (she lives 10 minutes drive away) and she's obviously questioning why and badgering me to get together. But they come as a package (both retired) and I genuinely don't think I can be around him, the thought makes me feel physically ill. And I can't tell her what he said because she'll minimise and defend him and I will feel even worse than I already do.

I'm not sure why I've reacted as strongly as I have, probably because what he said involved my teenage daughter, but it's like I literally can't pretend everything's ok anymore. If I'm honest part of me wants to walk away from the pair of them, I'm almost as angry with DM as I am with him for dismissing me all those years ago but we've always been close despite all that and I'm not sure I can do that to her now, she's in her 70's and not in the best of health. I also think I will be made out to be hysterical, she has very different views to me about (for example) the Me Too movement and historical SA cases in the media and I know she will think I'm making something out of nothing.

I know it must look like an easy fix, go NC and don't look back but that would utterly devastate my DM and, despite everything I've written here, I'm not sure I can do that to her, she's been a good mum in lots of other ways. I feel so stressed about it all I'm genuinely worried about my MH and the pressure to see DM is mounting, I just feel like it's all approaching boiling point and I have no idea what to do.

You do want to go NC with your DM.

You are offering her a choice.

If NC ensues that is a consequence of HER choice around YOUR choice to protect your DD and your own emotional health.

Maybe you will be a good role model to her of boundaries and values - that somethings are non negotiable - that there doesn’t have to be a histrionic row - you are simply stating facts and outcomes.

Her choice to make.

There are ZERO compromises here that you can make here to keep her and him happy.

It seems as a family you have all been dancing around his cocklodging behaviour and inadvertently enabling it but this is a step too far.

Don’t worry if she erupts, cry’s, pleads etc ignore any emotional volatility and manipulation.

Be straight and calm. You don’t need to be drawn into discussions, details etc

who WANTS a relationship with her mum who she loves. Would it serve her in the long term to lose that? I don't think so. This kind of black and white approach is easy to take when you're not the one in the middle of it.

It's not a black & white approach, first of all.

The b&w issue is not seeing the SD - but OP knows that.

She is conflicted about her mum - loves her & wants to see her, but thus currently involves seeing her mum.

However, OP's mum is part of the harm that was done to her. She needs help to navigate this. She doesn't truly have a loving relationship with her mum, who let OP down badly.

It's very painful to realise when our parent has done us harm in some way. OP has minimised what she experienced from her mum & SD (SD was facilitated by mum).

There doesn't have to be a massive row. But a redrawing of boundaries & recognition that her mother let her down is important. For OP's long term wellbeing & sense of self

@nidgey

No. This is nonsense.

Certain sexist behaviour might have been tolerated but abuse which is what OP experienced was never acceptable & most attentive parents would have addressed this, not facilitated it.

Btw, the bum-pinching & laughing you describe was also assault & deeply wrong. In no way can it be excused as the product of its time.

It is going to be a hard conversation with your mum OP, but you have to have it. Bad enough that the creep got away with abusing your right to bodily autonomy because your mother refused to see what was happening under her nose, but if you don’t say something now he is starting to do the same to your daughter, then your response is echoing your mothers “ignore” response all those years ago.

And once you have had the conversation with her I hope it gives you the courage to challenge the pervert directly about his past behaviour.

... am angry with her for turning a blind eye but it doesn't stop me loving her and I honestly don't think I can tell her

I understand OP, having gone through the same thing with my own "father" and seeing the blind eye turned by my much loved mum. Sadly this was back in the days before children were believed, which gave them an opportunity to hide his abuse and also meant there was no support for me at all (or for my mum, come to that)

Like others I was about 30 before the consequences of this hit home, and in the end I had no choice but to tell her the full story. Naturally this didn't go down well, especially when I also opened up to others who know the family, but it was the only option both to protect myself, the DS I'd had by then, and also to move forward

Fortunately mum and I somehow maintained our relationship; it was never quite the same again, but losing each other would have been too much after what had already been lost, so an accommodation was reached as I hope it will be for you too

This.

You are not powerless in this situation and neither is she. If she chooses to prioritise her husband, that's down to her and not your responsibility. She's an adult and she can make her own choices but you (and your daughter) don't have to take the consequences of her decisions.

Have you access to counselling? I would get support and advice on what to do. I wish you all the best, and well done for keeping your daughter away from that creep.

I’ve been in a similar situation. Your intuition is telling you what to do, trust it.
i did refer to therapy via my GP (there is a service near us that you can self refer to called let’s talk) which was very useful (4 intense but very helpful sessions to unlock the scramble in my head). That made me see what my intuition was telling me to do.

Continue to protect your daughter. Get some talking therapy. See your Mum once a month on garden centres for coffee etc. Draw very very clear boundaries and rehearse them to say to her (and him) if required. If you have a partner or a best friend get their buy in too so you have someone to talk to when you feel
wobbly.

Sending you love . You are not alone xx

You have to tell her OP.
In her heart she knows what he is. He has probably managed to convince her that she couldn't manage without him.
Maybe she will use the info you give her to finally move away from him.
I can't imagine what it would be like to live with a controlling bastard like that.
I don't think I could find it in myself not to go round and thump him though for the way he talked about DD.

Yes this.

I worked with a lady whose mother did this to her, always preferred her step husband and ignored the lady when he was rude and explicit to her daughter. My coleague was early 20s, she just went no contact with her mother due to this. I wonder what have you been doing all these years, you have now a teenage daughter and this bastard is still alive and trying to spread his filth around. Come on, wake up.

I had an incredibly similar situation. You are holding all of the responsibility at the moment and you will not be able to move on with things this way. My honest advice is this: tell your mother everything, and that you will no longer have contact with him.

She will have to choose and, she will probably choose him. It will hurt you, a lot. But the weight is off your shoulders. It is her choice and you did all you could. I can't tell you the relief I felt after going through all that and realising I was no longer complicit in an abusive man's games.

We avoid these things because they will be hard, but for me it is exactly what I needed. Consider this too - he knows EXACTLY what he is doing. Do you want to let him get away with that?

If you can't go no contact, just tell your mum you will only see her from now on if she wants to maintain a relationship with you and your children.

If she doesn't then least you know you've tried. Then no contact will have to be the way. Don't ignore your gut instinct. It's kept you safe so far from this man.

@BeverlyHa you are victim blaming! These men manipulate situations to make their victims feel they can't say anything without pulling apart the whole family, which to be honest is probably correct. If you havent been in OP's shoes you have no right to be so scathing about what she has been through. The mind plays incredible tricks to help us survive situations like this.

OP i see people saying "maybe your mum will take your side". The truth is she probably won't. Don't get your hopes up is my advice, from experience.

What's nonsense? That generation did grow up in a culture of absolute sexism where pinching/slapping girls' bums was normalised - I didn't say what OP experienced was acceptable, particularly not from a father figure, but it's true that boundaries were more blurred. I wish OP's mother and other authority/care figures could have protected her and others more and it's not a justification but it is important to understand cultural norms as well to understand how she may have turned a blind eye.

I know bum-pinching was assault - but it's true that it was also laughed off and pervaded popular culture from Benny Hill to the infamous Fiat ad where the byline was 'if it were a lady it would get its bottom pinched' (see screenshot)

she has very different views to me about (for example) the Me Too movement and historical SA cases in the media

You mean she has very different views from anyone with a brain and integrity.

You mean she is a sexual abuse apologist.

You mean she is a handmaiden.

And she's tolerated in being so because your Dad "shat on her". But plenty of women were shat on from a great height by first etc husbands/partners and are not like she is

So she is what she is, regardless of the trauma of her first marriage.

You've all been giving her a free pass for her views (and her ignoring/facilitating her 2nd his SBDs sexual harassment of her child/ten).

You see her as a victim because of her first marriage breakdown etc. but actually she's a perpetrator. She's made you victims.

It can take a very long time - through childhood and teenage years and young ish adulthood where you are still programmed as such to love your parents and not see them in a detached way .... To realise things. It doesn't mean you have to go NC with her totally, if that is not in your best interests, but it does mean you have to see her realistically/critically and enforce very strong boundaries.

Agreed.

*ignoring/facilitating her 2nd husband's sexual harassment of her child/ren

I've had similar and unless people have been in the situation it's hard for them to imagine the powerlessness you feel and the long term conditioning to keep all 'ok'. I agree with @Plantymcplantface try and get some counselling and validate yourself and your intuition and gut instinct. Many situations like this exist because children naturally develop coping mechanisms to continue to comply with caregivers. It's a survival instinct, but now it's no longer serving you. I just want to say, you do have choices although I know it won't feel like that right now. At present until you can access some support to unravel things could you tell your mum that you are not in a good space right now, don't currently wish to speak about it and say you will catch up with her alone on short outings (shopping, garden centre etc. so you can avoid in depth probing). Keep your home a space safe for you to navigate this, you don't owe anyone explanations until/if/when you are ready to do so. Thinking of you, this stuff is very hard.

What's nonsense? That generation didgrow up in a culture of absolute sexism where pinching/slapping girls' bums was normalised - I didn't say what OP experienced was acceptable, particularly not from a father figure, but it's true that boundaries were more blurred. I wish OP's mother and other authority/care figures could have protected her and others more and it's not a justification but it is important to understand cultural norms as well to understand how she may have turned a blind eye

I agree things were different then but this doesnt affect the outcome now does it? she cant say to her teen DD, well, just put up with it because in the 80s it was accepted. Things are different now thank goodness and if the OP's mum refuses to meet her without the SD being there then it really doesnt matter what was acceptable in the 80s, OP still doesnt have to meet up with her. The choice is entirely in her mum's hands. She can meet the OP alone or not at all. If she chooses not to meet her alone then she'll have to deal with the consequences of that. She has a choice here, the OP sounds like she's quite happy to keep contact as long as the SD isnt there too. You are talking as if her mum has no options- she does, she can meet with OP alone but it doesnt sound like she's willing to do that.

OP i see people saying "maybe your mum will take your side". The truth is she probably won't. Don't get your hopes up is my advice, from experience

I agree.

Her views on historic sexual abuse cases and metoo demonstrate very clearly what her views in general are, and those views have her. (and would continue to be) applied to personal relationships too.

It's very easy for people to not realise just how monstrous other people, in particular women can be in this front.

There was a poster on here who said that her Mum (or maybe mil, I'm not totally sure) had expressed views on the Ian Huntley murders case that the little girls were somehow responsible. She says this in the middle of discussing her mum/mil - thrown in with lots of other stuff. She did not less with it and only saw it as something to mention, alongside other things, when clarifying & discussing her mum/mil.

When I latched onto that and said it was one of the most horrifying things I'd ever heard and that her mum/mil is clearly insane/warped etc. The poster seemed genuinely a little bit taken aback. It was like her mum/mil saying it hadn't seemed all that bad, it was just an older persons view/culture ..... The woman dudbt even appear to have been called out on it by the op or wider family.

We are in danger of letting people, esp women (while making excuses about their cultural background or their own experiences) who are actually fkg monsters, away with it.

I would seek counselling. There are alot of comments here about your mother and her behaviour, but this is about you and your feelings. Unsure where you are, but I'm a trainee counsellor and all of my placements are pay what you can afford. Google counselling charities or even placements, as most placements offer low cost counselling. One of mine is donate if you can but if you can't then fine. Most pay 5 a session. There is low cost options.

*She did not lead with it and only saw it as something to mention, alongside other things, when clarifying & discussing her mum/mil.

Op your Mum may have been a type of victim in her first marriage.

But she has also facilitated/enabled/essentially supported you being made a victim of her 2bd husband.

And that would continue with your dd if you weren't aware and well adjusted enough to be stopping it, like you are.

Sorry if I didn't express myself clearly enough. I agree - it absolutely doesn't affect how the OP protects her DD. All it might affect is how OP comes to terms with her mother not protecting her. I absolutely agree she should not have to have anything to do with the SD, and only see her mum alone - if at all.
The mum does have options now - and needs to not be a prisoner of the past.

I'm not trying to downplay anything that happened, just the OP clearly wants a relationship with her mother and some of the comments here are suggesting that's wrong in itself.