What the fuck am I going to do?

[Richandstrange]

I have posted about this before (under another name) but things feel like they're coming to a head now and I still have no idea what to do. Basically my stepdad was a creepy perv around me when I was growing up and my DM turned a blind eye and dismissed me when I tried to raise it with her. I've pushed it down inside me for years and 'tolerated' him for the sake of my relationship with DM but he recently said something to me on the phone which has brought it all back to the surface and left me unable to stand speaking to or being in the same room as him.

This is getting difficult with DM now, I haven't seen her for weeks (she lives 10 minutes drive away) and she's obviously questioning why and badgering me to get together. But they come as a package (both retired) and I genuinely don't think I can be around him, the thought makes me feel physically ill. And I can't tell her what he said because she'll minimise and defend him and I will feel even worse than I already do.

I'm not sure why I've reacted as strongly as I have, probably because what he said involved my teenage daughter, but it's like I literally can't pretend everything's ok anymore. If I'm honest part of me wants to walk away from the pair of them, I'm almost as angry with DM as I am with him for dismissing me all those years ago but we've always been close despite all that and I'm not sure I can do that to her now, she's in her 70's and not in the best of health. I also think I will be made out to be hysterical, she has very different views to me about (for example) the Me Too movement and historical SA cases in the media and I know she will think I'm making something out of nothing.

I know it must look like an easy fix, go NC and don't look back but that would utterly devastate my DM and, despite everything I've written here, I'm not sure I can do that to her, she's been a good mum in lots of other ways. I feel so stressed about it all I'm genuinely worried about my MH and the pressure to see DM is mounting, I just feel like it's all approaching boiling point and I have no idea what to do.

@Richandstrange With women who brush this stuff under the carpet, minimise and dismiss it, it is often the case that something happened to them and they had no choice but to square up and "forget about it".

When "forgetting" is your only viable survival strategy, you do forget - but your subconscious doesn't, which explains the variety of weird attitudes many older women (and some men) have about sexual impropriety and even talking about it.

I'm not suggesting you psychoanalyse your mum, and I DEFINITELY agree with PPs' advice to make her a non-negotiable offer of a relationship that excludes her husband. By all means tell her why when she asks, and you will then have to be very determined not to get into arguing about it. It's your way or no way.

I'm pointing out that things are rarely as simple as demonising a woman who has clearly done her best, with the best will in the world, flawed as it may be.

@TedMullins, for years I stayed close to my mother only, despite Dad constantly breathing down her neck. If he answered the phone, I just asked to speak to her - and hung up if he tried to stretch it. It can be done, can't it!

But your dm has been a bad mother - she turned a blind eye to her dd telling her something be very serious. Could you do that to your own daughter? Why does her being in her 70s absolve her - shouldn't she know better? Tell her exactly why, this anger that you're feeling is also due to her. She deserves to be held accountable. And you don't have to make any excuses, your dd isn't safe and that must be made known to her! She should be ashamed of herself.

Exactly - she allowed this. Let that sink in before you feel the need to protect her.

Thank you for this, I've spent quite a bit of time psychoanalysing my DM already and a lot of that rings true. I worked out a while back that she was 5 months pregnant with my DB at her wedding to my real dad which was no doubt a bit of a scandal at the time and I suspect she was seen as having brought shame on my (fairly Victorian attitude-wise) DGP's. Then he cheated on her (spectacularly publicly) and they divorced (more shame) and he cut all contact with us so she was completely on her own with us kids.

I adored my DGP's but, with adult eyes, I can see that they treated her really badly in some ways and I doubt she was left with much in the way of self esteem after all that. Leaving her perfectly set up for a man like my step dad to take full advantage of, I get the impression she was/is even 'grateful' that someone still wanted her. And he has taken full advantage over the years, the term 'cocklodger' was invented for him.

So yes, she was wrong, and weak, and she didn't protect me when she should have. But she went through so much that led her there that I find it hard not to see her as a victim too despite also being angry with her, it's very confusing.

I am sorry but all the justifications in the world wouldn't make me forgive my mother if she had turned a blind eye to a stepfather's inappropriate behaviour and refused to listen to me. My mother had a dreadful childhood in many ways - probably far worse than your mother's - and I would never think she would have done something like this.

What do you want to model to your DD as behaviour that she should adopt as an adult?

• People-pleasing towards women who put their predator partners ahead of their own DDs.
• Having rock-solid boundaries and putting women's safety first.

Your mum did not protect you because she put the pervert first. Whether she was groomed to do that or not, she let you down. She cannot expect to have your or your DD's company until she demonstrates that she has changed her priorities by kicking the pervert to the kerb.

I didn't say I could/would forgive her and I agree, there is no justification but it's easy to be black and white from an outside perspective. For me I'm seeing this in amongst everything else that makes up my mum, she's a whole person to me, not just the aspects I've written about here.

I'm also still in the very earliest stages of facing up to this and it's hard when you've been shoving it into a tightly sealed box for 30-odd years. I'm seeing everything through new eyes atm and it feels like slowly dawning horror so maybe I'm just not ready to accept that my step dad might not be the only monster in all this. I'm already feeling pretty devastated tbh so effectively losing my mum on top of everything else is too much for me to deal with right now.

I haven't modelled anything to DD as yet, there's been nothing inappropriate in his behaviour for many years, since my DH arrived on the scene funnily enough. DD has always kept him at arms length (maybe I did model something) and openly dislikes him in the same way we all do in our family, he is a very difficult man to like for reasons unrelated to him being a perve.

I've been honest with her about him saying something inappropriate on the phone (but not that it involved her, she doesn't need to know that) and about his behaviour in the past and she's aware that I'm struggling with how to go forward with DM so I don't think I've set her up to be a people pleaser just yet. She's actually fabulously fierce and a tiny bit ruthless when it comes to how she allows people to treat her, I'm very proud of her.

Have you had counselling? I would say to your mum you want to see her one on one. I wouldn't want my children to have a relationship with someone like that nor would I want to pretend to be ok I front on my children knowing what he's done.

Make a monthly hair or beauty appointment with your mother. Offer her a girly afternoon, with or without your daughter.
You don't have to have a realationship with the SD.
Explain your feelings if she asks but only do and say what you are comfortable with.

I agree with pp, why would your mother see his behaviour and excuse it? She should have protected you OP, as you have protected your DD. Your mum is very lucky that you are prepared to have a relationship with her. See your GP and get some support. Wishing you all the very best going forward

I agree. You've been conditioned to worry about her but what about YOU? she didnt seem to care much when you were younger about your feelings. Why are they less valid than hers? Actions have consequences.

So yes, she was wrong, and weak, and she didn't protect me when she should have. But she went through so much that led her there that I find it hard not to see her as a victim too despite also being angry with her, it's very confusing

This explains her actions but its not an excuse not to protect her daughter. What happens to us in childhood is not our fault but it IS our responsibility to process it and to protect harm from coming to others, especially children. If this wasnt the case then abuse would just continue to happen to every generation and it would never stop. You can hold those two pieces of information at the same time- yes, she was a victim and no, what she did wasnt ok. If she cannot protect you then she wont protect your daughter either- thats quite a horrifying conclusion and the only natural consequence is that you only see her alone.

Why are you protecting a woman who didn't protect you as a child? You say she's vulnerable and you don't want to upset her, but what's more vulnerable than a child stuck in a scary situation she cannot stop?

I'm sorry OP but it's time to step up and be the Mother you didn't have.

Tell your Mother why you won't see him and protect your daughter, like she failed to do.

I also remember this unwanted hugs as a child. You can just feel when it’s wrong. Luckily not someone we saw regularly, it must have been awful living with a man who did that to you. Now that you have started coming to terms with the memory of this, take the time you need to process it and maybe there is a helpline you can call (I’m sorry I’m not sure who) who can help you talk this through. It sounds like you might be at the point where you are ready to cut ties with your mums partner, I don’t think it necessarily means the end of the relationship with your mum. But the touching and comments were so wrong and you sound like a great mum for protecting your daughter.

I think you need to first speak to your GP to get some support. Or an organisation like the Samaritans? What about your workplace, can you get councilling through them? Keep putting your Mum off if you can't face talking to her, you need to look after yourself right now.

I have had a very similar situation but the male was my grandad rather than my stepdad. I pushed it down and played along until I had children. Then suddenly I just couldn’t do it anymore.
I’ve gone NC. She still plays the victim because that’s her default role and prevents her from having to face up to any responsibility.
That’s her choice.
My choice is to break the family cycle of abusive men and women who utilise their own abuse to excuse them ignoring the abuse of their children.
I don’t care if that makes my fully grown mother sad.
I spent an entire childhood being sad and scared and let down.
It’s not happening to my children.

I'm concerned about all these people piling in and blaming the mother, suggesting OP should cut or reduce contact. It sounds like your mum has been a victim herself when younger. Yes, the time period these things happened in does matter. You can't judge the things that happened in the seventies by today's standards. If OP otherwise has a close relationship with her mother it isn't worth losing it.

Of course she's justified in being hurt and also in never seeing the creep again, but cutting contact with the mother is extreme and heartbreaking.

I think you need to seek counselling about this. Obviously it has got to a point where you can no longer supress your feelings and carry on pretending nothing has happened. But you don't want to go no contact or tell your Mum because she isn't in the best of health and would minimalise it.

Of course she's justified in being hurt and also in never seeing the creep again, but cutting contact with the mother is extreme and heartbreaking

OP said "they come as a package" which implies she wont meet her alone. If thats the case, then what choice does she have? If her mum wont compromise and see her alone then there isnt another option. Thats on her mum, not the OP.

I have a complicated relationship with my own parents for reasons different to yours OP and its hard when you need to face up to the fact that the 'good parent' was actually pretty shit too. I agree with you. It's not as black and white as some people like to make out. There is a lot of bad in my relationship with my own parents. But there was also a lot of good.

I would start with telling your mum how you're feeling. Ask to see her alone if you want to. See how that goes down and take it from there.

Rather randomly do a Sexual Offences Disclosure Request on your stepdad. Cos you never know. If your DM is anything like my DM, she will not accept a word thst comes out of my mouth. But if a 'Professional' (even though I am a Professional!) were to say the exact same thing, she will then accept it and 'mumsplain' everything I already know back to me.

Abuse is abuse no matter in what time period it happened. I do agree that Ops mother was herself targeted deliberately and also because she had a girl, such men also are highly skilled manipulators. She has been manipulated too BUT she has not readily believed her daughter when this happened. her best too was not good enough .

OPs mother would rather put her marriage and life with this man first and foremost rather than face discomfort over the fact her husband has made inappropriate comments towards her granddaughter and otherwise letched over the OP. I’d also be wondering if he had a criminal record.

Her mother may well be devastated (no more likely annoyed) etc but too bloody bad She is also culpable here and has failed both the OP and her grand daughter. Sod not rocking the boat here, it’s easier to chuck the woman overboard.

You have to do what your mother did not do ie protect the child from his malign influences. This will involve also you not seeing either of them.

OP - would also suggest you contact NAPAC here rather than just the GP because waiting times for such in the NHS are miles long as well as limited in number of sessions offered.

He cuddled you and hugged you as a child, as many fathers would, and continued to so as a teenager-as some fathers would

It wasnt just normal familial hugging though was it? you think making inappopriate comments about a teenage girl's body, touching her bum, staring, and pulling her onto his lap is normal dad behaviour towards a teenage girl?

Geez.