Had a baby with a hoarder but I can’t cope anymore with him moving in.

[Onetwothree45]

We have been together 3 years and have a 6 month old. We lived in separate houses. His house was always a mess and full to the brim. I then got pregnant and he has moved into my house. His house is going to be rented.

I can’t cope anymore every drawer and cupboard is getting filled with things he has never used or did 15 years ago. He brings empty packages and rubbish. He won’t sort through and organise anything. I can’t put his clothes away as his drawers are full of crap like memorabilia or wires and old tablets etc. He has clothes from childhood in them when he’s 33 now. There is shit absolutely everywhere. He keeps going to charity shops and car boots and getting more when his house is probably only 30% empty. He gets quite angry when I put my foot down. We’ve got 5 bookshelves full of dvds now and several drawers. So nothing can be put in them.

I can’t cope anymore and have been crying all morning. He’s thrown a strop and filled up his car and taken a load back to his house. I can’t see this working. I’m really unhappy and don’t like being in my house. The baby will be crawling soon so it’s dangerous. Every time I speak to him he has an excuse or say Im just moaning again. It’s never going to end we will be surrounded by rubbish.

He got upset yesterday as I threw away a chocolate fish that was 6 years out of date but he wanted to keep it as a memento.

It is FOG op. You keep getting stronger and then reverting back to saying it's only stuff in the shed and he doesn't mean it etc etc.

People have been very honest with their lived experiences with this.

You are stuck.

You need to put your children first here.

Perhaps. I’ve experienced fog in my abusive relationship but then I was terrified of him and he told me constantly how much I owed him. I didn’t actually love him I’m not like that now. I think it’s because its not that bad currently and it’s hard to see the future when it’s not in hindsight or have the experience. My feelings are balanced became I actually love him for his positives and for all that he adds. Yes there is a counterweight. It’s this good side that is throwing me. He isn’t like those people who throw away there family, he is extremely loving. It’s a hard calculation. He adds so much and he also has a side that takes.

He isn’t like those people who throw away there family, he is extremely loving.

I appreciate how tough this must be but remember he wasn't willing to just throw away all his worn out, broken shoes when asked to do so. Despite loving you and your baby, which I'm absolutely sure he does. His hoarding disorder is just too strong as he hasn't had any treatment and hasn't proactively been seeking any out. He does love you, I'm sure he does. But sometimes love isn't enough to create a healthy environment when someone is unwell

And I fear the longer you try to have him staying at yours, the more this will take from you mental health wise and the more it will as a consequence take from your children as on top of everything else you're dealing with, you'll also be trying to essentially manage someone's unmanageable behaviour.

Monsteramunch has it. But when you say "he isn't like those people who throw away their family," most don't start out like that. They end there when they have gone through all the cycles and threats and promises and non disposing 'solutions', and either family or SS make them choose on the spot. They can't and the other party removes the children out of it.

Send him home with his stuff to sort it out and show you he can and is prepared to expend the time and energy sorting it prior to moving, and prioritize you and the children on some level at least. The fact he's insistent in bringing it "as is" to sort at yours, is big alarm bells to all who know about this stuff, no matter how well intentioned or kind he is. The fact his life is planned around more acquisition when he can't cope with what he has, is even louder bells.

Those who are trying to change or move on, are usually between determined and desperate not to to bring the past mistakes into their future even when towards the end they often fail and end up having to move the last portion as is, because life got in the way and everything was harder and took longer than planned. The 'last portion' to this guy, is most of it.
But also this guy has only just invested in plastic boxes after his shed's been built. In nine months he could have had half sorted and packed ready if he was interested. He doesn't want to do or face the work. He's not planning is he, just telling you what you want to hear (may believe it himself) until it comes down to it, and then you're seeing reality.

He either knows what he's doing and it isn't good, or has zero self awareness and is living with the delusion that he can infinitely stretch time and energy, while meantime ensuring those 100's of projects, work, 'helping you,' and acquisition trips as exiting days out, take up all his time.

ATM he is physically able to clear his hoard. What will happen if he becomes ill or has an accident - even chronic backache could make moving the stuff impossible.
The worry all that stuff is causing you both (because it is unlikely he doesn’t wish it would all just go away) will draw you into his MH issue.
I believe that there is a strong genetic link to this disorder so you need to present a healthy “normal” role model for your baby.
(Seems logical that the tendency to hoard is an evolutionary relic of the Hunter gatherer lifestyle. Much later impoverished ancestors who had few possessions and one change of clothing if they were lucky, were wise to hold onto anything useful. Even the comparatively wealthy left their clothing and bedding to in their wills. ) I digress, but want to illustrate that urge to hoard can be deeply ingrained and expert help is needed to break the pattern.

he told me constantly how much I owed him

And now you're telling us how much you owe this man.

He isn’t like those people who throw away there family

He doesn't even throw away shoelaces or manky old chocolates, so that's not as significant a positive as you seem to believe.

Elleherd · Now
Longdarkcloud's right. It's exactly what's happened here. I became seriously unexpectedly disabled and now struggle with what used to be easy. Also unable to let go of things that are a big part of non disabled me and life I used to have. I've written most contributions to this thread from hospital while life was at yet another enforced standstill and another week passed by.
On that note I'm away to decluttering!

OP, I can see that you love him and his traits apart from the hoarding.

But he needs to face up to this and deal with it, clear his house, rent it out, or he stays there on his own and doesn't move in. As I said in my earlier post, he cannot bring this into your life.

He does have a mental health issue, and the only way forward for him is to accet that and get some counselling and help to clear his house.

He needs definitive lists:

Does it work?
What do I need it for? and define a use
Find a home for it
If its a precious memory, put it in the memory box
Clothes - when did I last wear it, are there any holes etc
Shoes - as above

He needs to stick to this. Nobody needs 5 kettles, 6 toasters, broken shoes/whatever, and he needs to get past the mental block that is making him keep falling apart shoes, that nobody in their right mind would keep.

Find safe storage for the things that do really have to be kept, like stacking Really Useful boxes etc, or racking .

Any genuine collections, either go on display or get boxed safely in secure sealed tubs until they can be displayed. I used to collect mugs and special candles, my brother used to collect model cars. People can collect stuff without hoarding it.

He has got up this morning and filled up a boot full and taken to the dump. All the shoes bar one pair have gone. He says he finds it hard when people are stood in front of him pressurising him and he needs to get his head around it himself rather then someone making him. It makes him anxious to be put in the spot. He said he wanted to find all the pairs of shoes to pick the better of the pair. He has and now binned all the rest. I have asked why keep in the first place and he doesn’t really know why he just did. It must be hard changing a habit of a lifetime and having people pressure you because they don’t understand. He clearly has his own way of doing things in a way he understands. When given the time he has worked out he only needed a pair. I know people are helping me but at the same time you aren’t here looking at what’s happening. You have my side of the story and it could be possible I’m not helping him at all my getting frustrated and forcing him.

Are you sure he threw them out or did he just take it back to his house?

That's exactly what I'm thinking. Hoarders go to amazing lengths to keep their stuff.

TBF he equally well may have binned them.

@Onetwothree45 You've already been told you're not helping him at all getting frustrated and forcing him, but it's also the only reason he's sorting the shoes and going to the dump in the first place.
His motivation is coming from you 'moaning' at him etc. He isn't doing it because of an internal desire not to inflict this on you, but to externally please you for now and not face consequences. So you're managing him.

He clearly has his own way of doing things in a way he understands. When given the time he has worked out he only needed a pair. After lots of pressure and questioning by you, he's concluded the obvious.

Yes he needs to go through every single item himself, every single piece of paper, every item of clothing, set of retrieved laces, every cable, and make a decision about each item he can part with and why, one by one. We all do.
How much time do you think this process takes alongside living a normal life?

Having the self motivation to keep doing that day in and day out, is extremely hard, especially when there's so much else in life to be done. I've just done a solid hour of sorting, and already stopped for first coffee break. 😊
But I recognize just how much of a long haul, time consuming situation this is, and I need to pace myself, motivate myself, take breaks, then return, and live around doing it continuously. But I don't have a young family needing me.
Ill automatically return to it because I'm internally motivated to not leave this to my children to sort when I die, and to reduce wasting money, time and effort keeping it all in the meantime.

Last week he was excitedly going to 3 car boot sales until you said you wouldn't go.

It's good he's throwing the shoes, but that's taken ages and he has loads more to do. Plus he's still kept one pair.

You can't say you weren't warned on here.

You and your children will suffer.

They have gone, he loaded the car his end and came back to put some of the bits here that were going. The old garage door etc. He said he knows we can’t keep two lots of houses worth of stuff. He also had stuffed in the boot empty barrels and cones and other stuff from his house that we hadn’t looked at yet. He will have noticed the big box of dvds I took back to reclaim the drawers under the tv for things we actually use. They are kids dvds but they don’t watch them.

@SquishyGloopyBum I was excited also as I’m looking out for some garden things. I do enjoy looking and seeing if there is anything good. But I changed my mind when I saw the amount that needs sorting. Adding more seemed stupid atm.

You still believe he's going to sort through everything.

Okay.

Someone suggested that he's just moved a few things elsewhere, not actually discarded them. This is highly likely, I'm afraid.

Op, I’ve full read this all and all I can say is that most of us will never understand a hoarder or how their minds work. My MIL became a hoarder of paperwork, she kept everything, just in case she might need it. She’d signed up for so many newsletters and she was a Trustee for a Charity, where again she had paperwork going back 20 odd years. She hid it all well and it was only when we were trying to find something, that it became apparent that she had a problem. I causally said let’s go through some of it and wasn’t prepared for the meltdown she had. We found doing it slowly, putting it in piles to keep and throw, tbh it all needed throwing, but she couldn’t cope with that. It took a good 6 months to clear. Her DH had no idea either as she was always the one that handled the paperwork. I appreciate with hoarding larger items, it’s going to take a while. Good luck going forward.

A hoard is a physical barrier between the hoarder (and those they live with) and the world, including everyone who loves them. It also acts as a shield as all anger, frustration, etc becomes focused on the hoard, rather than the person. It’s hard to explain how much it screws up a family.

You wrote:

"I can’t cope anymore every drawer and cupboard is getting filled with things he has never used or did 15 years ago. He brings empty packages and rubbish. He won’t sort through and organise anything. I can’t put his clothes away as his drawers are full of crap like memorabilia or wires and old tablets etc. He has clothes from childhood in them when he’s 33 now. There is shit absolutely everywhere. He keeps going to charity shops and car boots and getting more when his house is probably only 30% empty. He gets quite angry when I put my foot down. We’ve got 5 bookshelves full of dvds now and several drawers. So nothing can be put in them."

Has he gotten rid of all the rubbish you listed here?

These things really don't need sorting through, but just dumped.

Wires, old tablets, clothes from childhood all need to be dumped.

5 bookshelves of DVDs nobody watches, dumped.

Eventually his mental illness will wear you down to the point you stop telling him to get rid of things and he'll be happy as a clam filling up your lovely home with rubbish.

There's been studies coming out of how living with abusive and disordered men cause physical and mental illnesses in women. The stress leads to high blood pressure, auto immune disorders, cfs, depression, etc. The dust and filth,.sinus infections,.upper respiratory issues, etc.

Look up the impact hoarders have on children.

This article talks about hoarding and it's impact on families

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3018822/#:~:text=Living%20with%20an%20individual%20who,of%20family%20frustration%20and%20hostility.

What he's doing is trying to control you - to silence you. He's criticising you because he doesn't want to move his rubbish out of your house. You're making it difficult for him.
But it's the only choice he's left you - he's filled your home with his stuff and insisting it's moved - pile by pile, drawer by drawer, box by box, until it's all back in his place.

It's hard but it's his hoard versus your home/ children and you.

For a serious hoarder, his actions appear to be most unusual don't they? Every single thing I read or see about hoarding emphasises the complete reluctance of hoarders to part with their stash.

What has suddenly come over him to do this so completely and quickly? Has he actually dumped it, did he go through it before putting it in the boot? Something appears off about this sudden action.

For a man who keeps broken shoes, boxes of chargers, shoelaces and other useless stuff, that to me is an unusually quick action.

Maybe he is seeing the light, but it sounds like people pleasing to me.

........ and it sounds like he's put it somewhere else, to me.
No way has he discarded it.

We’ve been sorting it for 9 months. He’s been fixing the garage on his own, boarding my loft and building the shed plus dealing with the baby. It was his choice to rent his house. He said if he sells it he doesn’t trust himself not to spend the money. He doesn’t want to live on his own.

I can only assume it’s gone to the tip. It’s not in his house or mine or the car. It wouldn’t make sense to be the one wanting to rent and having the opportunity to live alone with his hoard but choosing not to.

He can't possibly rent his house out when it's full of his hoard.

As for selling it, same problem.