Had a baby with a hoarder but I can’t cope anymore with him moving in.

[Onetwothree45]

We have been together 3 years and have a 6 month old. We lived in separate houses. His house was always a mess and full to the brim. I then got pregnant and he has moved into my house. His house is going to be rented.

I can’t cope anymore every drawer and cupboard is getting filled with things he has never used or did 15 years ago. He brings empty packages and rubbish. He won’t sort through and organise anything. I can’t put his clothes away as his drawers are full of crap like memorabilia or wires and old tablets etc. He has clothes from childhood in them when he’s 33 now. There is shit absolutely everywhere. He keeps going to charity shops and car boots and getting more when his house is probably only 30% empty. He gets quite angry when I put my foot down. We’ve got 5 bookshelves full of dvds now and several drawers. So nothing can be put in them.

I can’t cope anymore and have been crying all morning. He’s thrown a strop and filled up his car and taken a load back to his house. I can’t see this working. I’m really unhappy and don’t like being in my house. The baby will be crawling soon so it’s dangerous. Every time I speak to him he has an excuse or say Im just moaning again. It’s never going to end we will be surrounded by rubbish.

He got upset yesterday as I threw away a chocolate fish that was 6 years out of date but he wanted to keep it as a memento.

And OP, you're negotiating with him over stuff, when you're exhausted with your baby.
This man is being very selfish, forcing you to choose like this

So he's putting fish tanks, old shoes and food packaging ahead of being a mentally healthy father? I mean I do understand that's the nature of the illness but the reality is that's what he is doing.
Do better for you and your children.
Someone asked earlier but have you brought up the idea of therapy? Or mentioned the word "hoarder"?

This thread is still going? I can’t work out where you are with it all. Is he half between houses? He’s half filled your house with his absolute shit ‘collections’ and wants to bring more, and wants to buy more at car boots??

I think you need to pick a side and land on it. Or you’re never going to feel better.

I’d tell him to get every single thing of his out of my home, and take it back to his house.

His family sound awful, he sounds awful, he sounds aggressive and you sound utterly done in. I know you have a tricky baby but this shit show that he’s bringing to your door is worsening everything.

His fish may be a collection, (fish not empty tanks) and so may some of the stuff he has sold, and he may have other actual 'collections,' but the rest and it sounds like the majority, is simply hoarded objects that he is transferring his emotions on to.

I also have a genuine legitimate collection of something I'm knowledgeable about, that brings joy and is equally appreciated by others. It's also valuable and increasing in value if my children wish to sell later. It's in our home not in storage. It doesn't make my hoarding disorder different, or the rest of the stuff a collection. (I've actually stopped actively collecting more of it unless it appears in front of me, as actively not encouraging any form of acquiring seems like part of self help.)

Both his genuine collections and his hoard will form part of his identity. How big a part makes a lot of difference between what is normal and healthy enough and what isn't.

Are his fish kept well and in good clean maintained tanks?

You can tell the difference between a collection because it has rational behind it and gets looked after, displayed, packaged, and kept separately (can end up buried by hoarding) as opposed to mindless collecting and lack of division between it and everything else.

@Elleherd I know he has a disorder because of the way he behaves. It’s not rational to keep worn out pair of shoes, well maybe one pair. I don’t own a single pair of shoes with the sole flapping off and the toes open. I certain wouldn’t cry over throwing away if I did. I wouldn’t be taking out the lacing or sit wondering which to keep and whether I had use. Gone off food straight in the bin. I wouldn’t stuff my clothes drawers with crap and then have my clothes just out everywhere. I can see he has deeper issues. I’m just unsure as he has never been challenged before whether he can get a grip on it once he knows that he can’t do it anymore.

I said to him yesterday do you think you have a problem and he said probably.

The time delay between self discovery of the problem and being able to try and conquer it is large.

The time delay between being challenged and acknowledging there might be a problem, and genuine self discovery of the problem and being able to try and conquer it, is massive. Often many years and often given up on repeatedly.

I’m just unsure as he has never been challenged before whether he can get a grip on it once he knows that he can’t do it anymore.

What do you think happens when an anorexic or an alcoholic gets challenged and told they can't do it anymore? They're cured because they want it?

Look at his language: "probably." Because he can't completely deny it.
Yet you know from both him and his mother that there's been a long term issue over attachment with stuff, and caution with dealing with it. The fact she warned you says he's been challenged previously and it hasn't gone well.
But when challenged by you, he's still leaving the element of doubt. He's not responsible, this has been a surprise to him too, he doesn't know definitely, he didn't already know about this... It's hoarding language. Sorry.

Honestly "get a grip on it" I've sat here telling you how there's a bunch of on here self aware and fighting this pernicious condition for years, but he's going to maybe just be able to "get a grip on it" now, because you say he can't do it any more?
I can only assume hormones, exhaustion and desperation are clouding your ability to realize no amount of positive factors are going to mean this conveniently goes away.

I feel bad because I’m asking him to really get rid of his identity.

We all have things that are part of our identity, or that we keep for sentimental reasons - maybe our baby's first socks, or a broken locket that was a present from someone. But random, worn-out shoes? Several random, worn-out shoes? Please consider that if these form part of his identity he needs to examine where exactly they fit into this identity.

I confess I am losing the ability to be polite now, OP.

I recognise that you're exhausted. I know you would like this problem to go away.

I also recognise that you're still trying to apply logic to this. Your logic. This is a very long thread and absolutely nobody has told you that helping your BF to sort out and throw out his hoard is going to mean the end of this.

There are actual hoarders on the thread who are telling you that this is a pernicious, almost untreatable, severe and enduring mental illness and you're still discussing the whys and wherefores of useless, old shoes with this man.

As @Elleherd has explained to you, over and over again, you will not succeed in getting this man to throw anything away. That is the big problem for hoarders. They perceive value in the worthless, useless, used up, dirty, torn and squalid.

It hurts them viscerally to be asked to dispose of this garbage. And it is garbage.

Have you watched any episodes of Hoarders? You'll see the obstinacy and the inability to apply logic. None of the hoarders featured (and the programme went on for many years) has actually succeeded in stopping hoarding.

That is a 100% failure rate. There are hoarders on the programme who have chosen the hoard over their actual children.

Why do I have a mental picture of you sitting there with your fingers in your ears, going Lalalallalalalallalalalal and ignoring all the excellent advice you've been given?

Fishtanks?

Oh, for fuck's sake. That's exactly what I mentioned as the cause of one of my most serious injuries as a child. Fucking fishtanks.

What limb do you want your baby to have cut to the fat? Take your pick. It'll be the baby's fault when it happens, Mark my words.

He doesn't care. You're just a clean space to fill up. The hidden are irrelevant to him other than as an excuse or to blame for it.

It's a gift to your ex as he can use the incoming shit to get full residence if your eldest doesn't vote with her feet in a year or two first.

It's making you ill and less able to cope with the baby or anything else. He's making and keeping you trapped and more vulnerable with it.

Don't mither around and let this happen to you or them.

@TheShellBeach I am one of the children whose mother had to chose. I didn't even get a good-bye. It was probably too hard for her to acknowledge the choice she'd just made. But choose she did. Watching the Op en route to choosing by proxy is why I got invested in this thread.

Finding I'm a hoarder too is a cruel double punishment that keeps giving.

My mother did keep the "worthless, useless, used up, dirty, torn and squalid" which makes me even less than that in the eyes of the only person who might have had a reason to value me for myself. (welcome to your children's thought process in the future @Onetwothree45 )

But we do come in different sub-types. It's important to note as otherwise people are left thinking if it doesn't look a certain way it isn't hoarding. It is.

I don't keep rubbish, almost all of it is in notably good condition, much new. Why I initially kept it, even though I now understand sunk cost fallacy.
Exception is in 2nd hand DIY materials which are neither rubbish nor new, and the stuff that belonged to my children, which isn't rubbish, but isn't of more value than sentimental value to me, and a huge amount of books, artwork, and paperwork, and a lot of tools and equipment.

But, most of what I keep isn't financially worth what I pay to keep it, either financially or in time and labor maintaining it. I've protected my children from living with it being their normal, and while I had a small warehouse as part of my business there wasn't a financial cost, but I struggled to get rid of or use it up fast enough and now it's both a time and money drain, and yet here we are.

I know there are different types of hoarders.

There are people who hoard out of date food, for example, leaving it to rot, yet unwilling and unable to throw it out.

And we've briefly touched on the very extreme hoarders who keep their own faeces.

But I think what makes them similar is the inability to discard truly worthless and unsanitary things.

Clean hoarders often have piles of clothes, or books.

Obviously there are degrees in all things.

OP @Elleherd is baring her soul on this thread and I hope you're giving her credit for being so honest with you.

I feel sorry for your DP because he seems like he has a good heart and loves you and your child. I met my DH when I was 30. We married when I was 31. He was quirky. He had some kind of diagnosis when he was younger. He is different. I tend to have emotional attachments to things but am getting better with it. He has been the best partner, father, friend and husband. He never intends me harm. He always helps me and our kids with anything. He never thought that he would marry and told me recently that he was glad that I loved him because no one else would have him. He has weird tics and has come such a long way from the super silent introvert with no real friends that he used to be. Your DP sounds like he has given you a lot of support and love through this difficult birth and with the child you have together. I don’t really have any advise but I am rooting for your relationship and your family. I’ve been married to my quirky treasure of a husband for 24 years this year. He took me on a cruise to Alaska and then a week hiking in Colorado with our kids. He is the bigger earner and I only want to work part time and he doesn’t mind. I stayed home with the kids and he has built his retirement and has saved a lot for our future together/took it as his responsibility. He has a life insurance policy on himself in case he dies first so I will be taken care of. All of that to say he might not look like much to some and his quirks might drive others crazy. He may not be what society calls normal but he’s the best man I’ve ever met. What are his good points?

Does anyone think the OP is listening?

Listening but not hearing.
Reading but not absorbing information.

I totally get how this could have snuck up on you op and he does sound like a good person apart from this, so I don’t think you have done anything wrong or made terrible decisions like people seem to be saying.

It sound like he does need therapy because his hoarding is pretty extreme, but in the meantime it might be worth trying to get him to watch some videos of the minimal mom on YouTube. She’s all about decluttering but she’s so kind, understanding and non-judgemental and really seems to get the emotional reasons behind why people hang on to stuff. I started following her channel about a year ago and gradually bit by bit have sorted out most of my house and got rid of tons of stuff. Good luck. I’d just keep talking to him and keep explaining how the stuff makes you feel. I hope you manage to work it out together.

I am listening and I do appreciate all the advice. I’ve been dealing with an extremely clingy baby and absolutely terrible hayfever. The fish tanks were used and had fish is them not stored. He condensed all the fish into 2 which do look really nice. No one can hurt themselves, they are pretty big 200l ones. The others are up for sale on market place, still in his house.
My daughter also has gerbils in a tank and a rabbit. Those I bought. My children have me and I will never put there safety in jeopardy or choose another over them. Christ I fled my ex husband and lost my home for 3 years and fought him a court by myself to get my home back and succeeded. (It was a house I bought from family) I fought alone at court and got contact suspended for 3 years. I’m not stupid or a push over. I’m irritated by the stuff but I’d not let those I fought so hard for suffer for stuff.

It is difficult when apart from that he is a decent man. Does not complain about supporting me and a child which is not his, helps at home, will do anything. It’s just this anxiety about getting rid of things. My children will never ever be abandoned by me.

Do you think you could share this thread with him? X

This is what we call FOG - fear, obligation, and guilt.

Believing you're empathetic probably sounds a lot better in your head than accepting you have virtually non-existant boundaries.

Go back to work full time and ask him to move out. He will have to pay to support his child. You could get top up benefits of UC. Baby will go to nursery and 7 year old to school with before and after school clubs like millions of other children do. If you work you'll get help towards childcare on UC. It's not fair to make your DC live with a hoarder. You know this. Ask him to leave and take every piece of junk with him.

OP it's your responsibility to have a safe place for your older child and your baby. He has to go back to his own house for all your sales.Je can visit baby at your house provided he comes empty handed.

It’s not fog. It’s very difficult for a stranger to see the emotional side and the time. We’ve been through a lot together. He’s been supportive through my dodgy health and my chronic fatigue issues, my court cases, he was with me with my night wakings and nightmares. He supported me whilst I redecorated my whole house and helped scrape the mould off the walls when I finally got my house back. I’ve pushed him away in the past with my ptsd and he’s just been a rock. My ptsd is basically gone now, time has healed that.
Its very difficult to let that side of the person go. If he moves home then I will be doing it on my own. I can’t receive benefits, I’ve already looked into that and if he stays over nights they will cancel it, they told me before the baby came. There’s all the logistics of after school clubs and me going to work and him looking after them for some evenings a week. All the night wakings, he helps me so much with that. It’s difficult. We would be really pushing it and it’s not really possible for him to pay for both houses.

@caringcarer I did not work full time. I’m not able to because of my chronic fatigue becoming un workable. I was just about doing ok on my hours plus top up UC and help from my mum with daughter. I get a pathetic amount of child maintenance. The little baby was not planned, but she is loved and she is here and we must adapt.

I think there are stages of grief you go through when you come to the realisation your partner has a serious problem.

Hoarders truly don't change. It's a severe mental illness associated with OCD.

He would have to call up his GP and go tell them about it and get a referral for therapy and medication. But he'll never do that.

If he was a heroin addict would you be trying so hard to figure out a way that you could stay with him?

Hoarders and hoards are the biggest time sinks. Think of if the effort, time, and money in the past year you've spent on his hoard.

Im sorry to say I have hatred for hoarders. I see them as destructive, selfish, and abusive.

My mother was a hoarder and I was left to clean up her hoard after she died. I lived in the other side of the world and had to fly back to sort her estate and clean up the hoard. It was traumatic and I hated her for it.

My sister is a hoarder. She the filthy type of hoarder with cat urine, feces, and dirty litter all over the house. She's had rat and insect infestations but she doesn't seem to understand why they keep coming back. I suspect one day she'll set her house on fire and it'll burn down when she falls asleep burning incense on top of a box of hoarded junk.

Anyway, this man will just drag you and your children down in their hoard. Send him back to his.