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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Had a baby with a hoarder but I can’t cope anymore with him moving in.

719 replies

Onetwothree45 · 04/06/2023 10:45

We have been together 3 years and have a 6 month old. We lived in separate houses. His house was always a mess and full to the brim. I then got pregnant and he has moved into my house. His house is going to be rented.

I can’t cope anymore every drawer and cupboard is getting filled with things he has never used or did 15 years ago. He brings empty packages and rubbish. He won’t sort through and organise anything. I can’t put his clothes away as his drawers are full of crap like memorabilia or wires and old tablets etc. He has clothes from childhood in them when he’s 33 now. There is shit absolutely everywhere. He keeps going to charity shops and car boots and getting more when his house is probably only 30% empty. He gets quite angry when I put my foot down. We’ve got 5 bookshelves full of dvds now and several drawers. So nothing can be put in them.

I can’t cope anymore and have been crying all morning. He’s thrown a strop and filled up his car and taken a load back to his house. I can’t see this working. I’m really unhappy and don’t like being in my house. The baby will be crawling soon so it’s dangerous. Every time I speak to him he has an excuse or say Im just moaning again. It’s never going to end we will be surrounded by rubbish.

He got upset yesterday as I threw away a chocolate fish that was 6 years out of date but he wanted to keep it as a memento.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Cherchezlafemme77 · 08/06/2023 17:41

All those posters making well-meaning but misguided suggestions for what OP and her partner can do to "manage" the situation, please watch the programme linked above (Jasmine Harman and her hoarder mum). It shows perfectly how an otherwise intelligent, caring, funny adult will revert to childlike behaviours the moment her hoard is threatened in the least little bit. These are deep-rooted, lifelong problems that will engulf not only the sufferer but their entire family too. There aren't any real strategies for managing them.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 08/06/2023 17:43

Well done Onetwothree45. I'm sorry that some are getting exasperated with you as I can see you using this thread to process what's happening. And to reflect on your own life and experiences and why your instinct is to hang on to the relationship.

Your instinct to try to "fix him" is understandable and you're having to balance your feelings and wish to be in a stable relationship with all the hazards and problems his hoarding poses for your children (and you).

TheShellBeach · 08/06/2023 17:53

These are deep-rooted, lifelong problems that will engulf not only the sufferer but their entire family too. There aren't any real strategies for managing them

And that is undeniable. It is not possible to apply logic to this situation, unfortunately.

Likewise there is no realistic advice for the OP, other than telling her partner to move back to his own house.

There are no methods of changing this kind of behaviour. Even when a hoarder wants to change and seeks help, the chances of success are very, very low.

Elleherd · 08/06/2023 18:21

Sadly having bared my soul in the hope the Op would listen to people with the condition, I absolutely agree.

OrbandSpectacle · 08/06/2023 18:41

@Elleherd You are insightful, brave and strong🌹

Kisskiss · 08/06/2023 18:51

Onetwothree45 · 06/06/2023 02:00

It’s definitely had an effect on the way I look at him. To see him fret the other day over throwing away old shoes with rips and soles hanging off was an eye opener. He wanted to keep 2 pairs for “garden shoes”, he doesn’t need garden shoes then he took all the laces off the rest. I’m finding it difficult lying next to him in bed. I am scared, he’s only 33, how much stuff is he going to have. I think I’m going to sit him down and have a discussion about what is going on. I can’t believe I’m in such a stupid position after escaping a previous abusive relationship I now have another child with another man. I feel stupid. I love my children don’t get me wrong.

Ugh. This exact post of yours reminded me of my husband. He also refuses to throw old rattybthings away, uses old shoes for the garden and keeps all old laces etc .
I understand how you feel as it also makes me feel trapped and unhappy in my own home.

i forced him to rent a storage unit for a load of old , unnecessary furniture he took from a relative as I couldn’t deal with it anymore and that sorted that bit of the problem out as it made him realise the junk was costing him money, instead of saving him anything…

big sympathetic hug to you

Onetwothree45 · 08/06/2023 19:34

Thanks for everyone’s help. It has really opened my eyes. I feel tied. I’ve a new baby and no sleep and I’m extremely sleep deprived and emotional. One minute I want him to stay then to go then to stay. I am certain of one thing the stuff won’t come into the house anymore. I’ve confided in some mutual friends and they understand and are going to help. I guess at least he is keeping his home. We ummmed and arghhhed about him selling and agreed him renting out would be best. I think this at least is the best idea as he will always have somewhere to go back to. I always thought he’d want to eventually as he’d get sick of me but I fear it may be because of the hoarding and him now.

OP posts:
Davros · 08/06/2023 20:06

OP, I've been reading your thread and really feel for you. It must be so hard with your lovely new baby, DD, lack of sleep and hoarding bombshell. Flowers

Hollyhobbi · 09/06/2023 01:13

Op the problem is your dp won't be able to rent out his house with all his stuff in it. My own sister is a hoarder and has ocd, severe depression and possibly asepergers syndrome. She has been talking about selling her house for years. She keeps telling us that she needs to get tradespeople in to fix this, that and the other. Her washing machine and shower are broken. She uses my mums machine and shower now as she can't have anyone in to fix or replace them due to her embarrassment with the state her house is in. She's nearly 20 years older than your dp so has had a lot more time to accumulate stuff. Hoarding is such a difficult mental illness and sadly we as a family can't see my sister getting any better. Hopefully your new baby's sleep will improve soon and you'll get more rest yourself. My eldest never slept the first while as a baby but could sleep for Ireland now!

Onetwothree45 · 09/06/2023 06:37

I guess I’ve allowed so much because I felt bad that as he moved into mine it’s mostly my stuff. My bedding, my plates, cutlery, furniture, hoover etc etc. He is the one one having to dispose of more of his things. But then then not as nice, usual part broken. My house is done nicely and it would look odd as the things match. I’ve accommodated as much as possible. He was almost 2 out of 6 fish tanks as there wasn’t much in them anyway. I’ve integrated as many things as possible but we can’t literally put 2 houses in one.

OP posts:
Aishah231 · 09/06/2023 07:11

Surely unless you are very rich you can't afford to have a house sitting idle for years. He is a father now and the family surely needs that rental income. I don't think the choice should be leave your stuff at your house or don't move in. It should be sort out your house so it can be rented out or don't move in. His actions are very selfish.

Jagoda · 09/06/2023 07:16

OP, I know you are sleep deprived, but how on earth do you think he will rent out his house without emptying it of all his shit?

Onetwothree45 · 09/06/2023 07:18

@Aishah231 to be fair we’ve had a really tough time with the baby. We’ve had to tag team at night for the first few months as she screamed so much. I’ve had terrible fatigue and anaemia from a very large bleed during my section. It’a only really now that any of us has any free time to even go over to his house. I would be say he has wasted time. My house also needed work. The garage roof needed fixing, the shed building, what we have of a log boarding. It’s not much as it’s a loft conversion bungalow.

OP posts:
Onetwothree45 · 09/06/2023 07:19

*a loft

OP posts:
PuzzledObserver · 09/06/2023 07:47

I’m sorry you’ve had such a tough time, OP, both with the baby, your own health, and now the growing realisation that he is a hoarder, and what that means.

How far is his house from yours? Would it be practical for him to keep his house but still be at yours much of the time - to help parent the baby, but also because you love each other and want to be together?

Thats the only possibility I can see for you staying as a couple, without your house becoming full of his stuff. Give up the idea of him renting the house out. His stuff - all of it, except for immediate clothing and hygiene products, and essentials such as ONE charger for his phone, the ONE book he is reading etc - stays at his house. He wants to work on the projects he has collected for? He does it at his house.

It’s not a great solution, tbh. My DH and I maintained two houses for 15 months, due to the first one not selling - 40 miles apart, but needed to spend at least one night a week in the mainly empty house. It was a pain, and good when it was over. But needs must. We could afford it, short term. Would you be able to afford it, long term? You said he’s in a good job. Can he afford to keep his house on and make a reasonable contribution for your child and effectively pay you rent for the time he’s at your house?

One couple, two houses is one option. The other two options are: his hoard takes over your house, or you split up (and he pays maintenance for your child)

Any or all of these could be combined with him getting help for his disorder. If he does - and mindful of what people have said about the success rate in treatment - then maybe one day you would be able to live together without the hoard taking over. But - sorry to have to say it - that is extremely unlikely.

Since this thread started, have you used the word “hoard” or “hoarding” to him?

BarleySugars · 09/06/2023 07:55

Think i attract hoarders as all my main relationships have been with men with strong tendencies in that direction! I dont think they ever change. I think i had a mini breakdown living amongst the piled up crap with my exDH and i've been unable to tolerate 'visual pollution' since. With current DP i'm just very strict, stop things coming in to the house if i can,old shoes and tatty things just go, no conversation. He doesnt even notice majority of the time. BUT, he's a mild version of this...

Onetwothree45 · 09/06/2023 08:49

I sometimes think I am making it seem worse then it is. I do suffer with ptsd and have done to some degree since childhood. We are not tripping over things by all means and the majority of his stuff is garage and shed stuff. The garage and shed had been in progress so many things will go out of the house and into the shed when they done. I don’t know if I’m being too harsh as it’s not his fault I had no usable garage or a shed or a loft. I do have issues with too much visual and too much noise.

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/06/2023 09:55

You're in no way being too harsh. You're processing the realisation that your partner has a serious mental health problem that you've unwittingly allowed to spread into your home and are now having to reconsider. In the face of your sleep deprivation you've realised that what's happened is unsustainable & having to undertake the challenging task of making him remove all his hoard back to his house. I can only imagine how challenging reversing this must be. But you have to do it because of the threat his hoarding poses to your children.

Well done for getting real life support. Practically, maybe you can tackle it room by room with someone helping you look dispassionately at each room -literally removing everything that doesn't have a function / purpose? No boxes, no piles of stuff, no drawers full.

Get him to clear the contents of the garage and shed back to his property.

Elliania · 09/06/2023 10:09

OP you're still hung up on "But if I just....". There is no "if I just" here. You can't fix this by saying:
"If I just let him have the garage it'll be OK."
"If I just organise his Stuff it'll be OK"
"If I just say he can only bring part of the Stuff it'll be OK"
"If I just say no more new Stuff it'll be OK."
It's not going to be OK. He has a mental health issue that compels him to aqcuire and hoard stuff. You cannot fix this by organising. You cannot fix this by moving him in and leaving the Stuff at his house. He will continue to hoard and acquire Stuff because HE CANNOT HELP IT. Look at the Lego he bought your daughter - she didn't even want it! How much money and space did he waste with that - even though it was a kind gesture. If he can't throw things from his childhood away what do you think he'll be like with the baby's things? And he'll keep coming home with new Stuff. He just will.
I know it seems like posters are being harsh but I think we all want you to really really understand the nature of this - hoarding can only be "potentially" treated with intense and prolonged mental health treatment and possibly lifelong support. Even then the failure rate is incredibly high. We also don't want you to come back here in a few years with the question "We can't have anyone in our house because my partner's Stuff is embarrasing" or "My children can't play in the garden because we have 3 sheds full of Stuff out there." Or worse "My partner is mad at my child because they threw away some of his Stuff, even though it was rubbish".
Those are all potential scenarios you're risking here. You are gambling with you and your children's security, mental health and their home.
Please PLEASE PLEASE move him back into his house, with all his stuff, and tell him he cannot come back until his house is empty and he's had intensive therapy to tackle his problem.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 09/06/2023 10:26

re your comments in quote marks:
"We are not tripping over things by all means and the majority of his stuff is garage and shed stuff"

Its no better that you are not tripping over stuff (yet). You have drawers full of his hoard and now he's got his hoard in both your garage and shed making both buildings unusable for their intended purpose.

"The garage and shed had been in progress so many things will go out of the house and into the shed when they done"

He is churning by moving his hoard from one place to another, in this case the shed making that unusable going forward.

"I don’t know if I’m being too harsh as it’s not his fault I had no usable garage or a shed or a loft"

I seem to recall that you bought him a shed. What made you at all think you are being too harsh?. You are not.

Is your ongoing PTSD actually being addressed by professional people?.

You are still getting what you want out of this relationship and this is also why you've not ended this relationship with him.

Elleherd · 09/06/2023 10:44

@Onetwothree45 You are back to viewing things in terms of 'stuff' rather than recognizing that 'stuff' is just the symptom of a MH disorder.

I'm hoping others here might be able to take this post and explain emotional transference more concisely than me.

hoarding - noun (KEEPING)
the act of collecting large amounts of something and keeping it for yourself, often in a secret place.

Repeating myself but again: there are people like Barley Sugars Dp who bring in and don't throw out and are considered to be hoarding who barely notice removal of stuff. That's because they are hoarding stuff but don't have hoarding disorder = suffering significant serious emotional distress when attempting to throw stuff out, or it being thrown out. It's this that causes your partner to lash out (and others to lash inwards dangerously) whereas Barley Sugars Dp barely notices. It's the difference between bad habits and a MH disorder.

There are hoarders who don't actively acquire. They just keep what comes in naturally. Most of them have no issue with walking away from the lot, or it being cleared out, but among them are those with hoarding disorder for whom it's an emotional displacement and who can't just let go.

Hoarding disorder isn't defined by the amount of stuff, the type of stuff, or the amount of available storage. It's defined by acquisition and far more importantly, the acute internal distress suffered when needing to dispose.

Are you making his reactions when made to choose seem worse ? That unreasonableness rightly worries you. You can't generally have meaningful discussions that result in agreed outcomes, unless the outcome is him keeping.

The shed and garage will fill, during which time you will be battling over stuff that he doesn't want stored externally, and the gradual encroachment of materials that can be stored in the garden, to make space in the outbuildings. The children will be expected to maintain their own safety by not being near it.

Slowly and quietly everyone will come to understand that his stuff represents him, the very damaged dysfunctional part of him, that he puts to one side in stuff (everywhere) in order to function as a nice person/partner/dad/worker, rather than carry an unbearable load around daily. We don't know we're doing it, and it takes a long time to get your head round.
It's why the forced clear outs don't work, it's why making yourself dispose feels like throwing yourself away. It's why recidivism. It's why stuff is just symptom.

Transferring huge unmet needs and pain and emotion onto stuff allows us to function instead of be drowned by what's internally wrong. Others develop different MH conditions around what's internally wrong that bring attention quicker. We're often the ones determined we're OK. Eventually however, we drown in the stuff instead.

Hoarders without realizing, use transference on to stuff to fill and bury an emotional chasm. But it is never full and eventually the sheer amount of stuff forces the person (often via others) to beg to know what the hell is wrong with me? or to decide everyone else is the problem and become reclusive.

It's not just drowning in the stuff that that you should fear for you and your children, it's that living with his reactions to disposal of it, are what you are planning as a normal future for them and you.

He needs serious amounts of help in order to function normally as a person, but you're seeking to enable his dysfunction, so he can help you, in the state he's in.

I don't blame you, I understand whats happened, I can feel your turmoil, and it's all really sad. I'm just trying to get you to see exactly what the situation is.

TheShellBeach · 09/06/2023 10:45

Hoarders generally don't mind a bit of churning.

As long as the hoard stays. No throwing out of valuable old shoelaces or lamp stands which don't work. Yes, just move them elsewhere.

God forbid they actually get thrown out.

OP people are frustrated with you because you're putting a little steristrip over a large abdominal wound.

But I think you'll realize in a few months. You'll see the hoard and his proprietorial behavior for what it is.

Onetwothree45 · 09/06/2023 10:59

I feel bad because I’m asking him to really get rid of his identity. Everything he’s got in 33 years. Like all his furniture all his bedding all his house. I would be really upset if I had to do the same, I love the way Ive decorated my house and my ornaments I would be so unhappy to be in a house not surrounded by my things. He loves keeping fish and I’ve said only 2 tanks can come. His collections are his identity and I have been asking him to dispose of it all. I think that’s where I’ve been failing and allowing things.

OP posts:
monsteramunch · 09/06/2023 11:12

Reframe that thinking OP.

You're asking him to evolve. Into a responsible father in an appropriate setting - a family home that is safe, clean and not a chaotic environment for children to grow up in.

People have to change in some ways throughout their lives. There are probably lots of things you did before having children that you can't do while they are little because they are your primary responsibility and come first.

He needs to put his baby first now. It's that simple. His hoard cannot peacefully coexist with family life. It simply can't. So he needs to make a choice.

And if you don't feel comfortable asking him to get rid of everything then there is another solution. He moves back to his house and you remain a couple but live separately.

TheShellBeach · 09/06/2023 11:15

Hoarders always call their stuff a "collection".

They can't see that the rest of the human race doesn't feel the need to keep old receipts and carrier bags.

Or that piles of old, worn-out shoes do not constitute a "collection".

He's making you feel guilty for asking him to choose between six fish tanks.

Listen to yourself. Put the children first. Think about all that Lego your child didn't want.

You're still not getting it.