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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Desperately in need of help to understand my wife (and myself)!

373 replies

greengriff · 21/02/2023 12:14

I’m really in need of some advice. My relationship with my wife is currently at its lowest ebb. There are many reasons, but I wanted to focus on just one of them, an incident that took place on holiday last year. I want to talk about this incident firstly because my wife described this it as the ‘breaking point’ in our marriage and that it caused her to hate me a little bit, and secondly because I don’t understand why she blames me for it and I would really, really like to.

First a bit of what I believe is relevant background information: My wife grew up with a very domineering father. She chafed under his rules and couldn’t wait to get out of his house and rule her own life. Consequently, anything she even perceives as an attempt by me to tell her what to do is like a red rag to a bull and is guaranteed to lead to an instant confrontation. She views these kind of moments through the dynamic of sex (i.e. ‘you think because you’re the man that you should be in charge..’ etc.) whereas I view them as simply a clash of two quite dominant personalities. She very much emphasizes her independence as a grown woman from the need for a man and considers it patronising and reacts negatively if I ever have an opinion (apart from praise) regarding how she’s doing something. She is an extremely intelligent, strong-willed and capable person who, if she decides she’s going to do something, will work ceaselessly until she does. She’s definitely not one of life’s victims.

Anyway, to the point: We were on a skiing holiday last year. The slope at the time was very icy but pitch-wise it was nothing extreme. To give some perspective she’d skied steeper slopes many dozens (maybe even hundreds) of times before and there were at least a hundred other people on it of all levels. But it was indeed icy and unpleasant to ski and she was not definitely having fun, so - seeing that she was struggling - I offered to help. She shouted some abuse at me and skied off. Feeling thoroughly pssed off that an attempted act of kindness elicited such an unexpected response, I skied off in a different direction to do my own thing. When we met back at the hotel in the afternoon she told me that I’d abandoned her, leaving her scared and alone, ignored her calls, left her with no money and no idea how to get back to the hotel and that the whole thing was my fault. This obviously irritated the living sht out of me as I believed that I’d done nothing wrong and was in fact the wronged party.

This argument never really went away and we got stuck into it again last night, where some extra details were added that only increased my frustration and lack of understanding of her, and maybe even myself:

She said she needs a husband who’s there for her regardless of what she says. But for me it’s not what she says, it’s what she does. If she insults me and storms off am I supposed to go and plead with her to come back?

She then said that I would not have left a child in the same situation, to which I agreed, but said that she is a capable and responsible adult and therefore it’s different. She then said she wants the same kind of love and caring that I’d give a child and that she needs me to ‘be the man’ and ‘be her hero’ and be committed to her safety even when she’s acting like a twat.

And finally she said that she wants someone who would move a mountain for her even when she’d directly told them not to!

Thinking about this just makes my head ache! For 99.9% of the time in our relationship if I’d gone directly against her wishes or treated her like I would a child it would have led to an explosion that made Hiroshima look tame! Yet I’m supposed to do this – to ‘be the man’ and make her act against her own will – at certain times when she’s most angry and attacking? And not doing so is my fault and makes her hate me!?

What does this actually mean? That her ‘independent woman’ persona is not real? That it is real, right up until the moment that it isn’t, and I’m supposed to know when those moments are and switch role to the helpful patriarch? Something else?

If someone can shed some light on this please do as I’m really struggling. If I can’t solve this puzzle our relationship is likely to fail, and that’s the last thing I want.

Maybe it’s not her and there’s actually something wrong with me! If you think so, please tell me straight!

OP posts:
Sindonym · 24/02/2023 08:53

I think what happened was that she was really, really scared on the slopes and her reaction to that was to attack (people tend to freeze, flight or fight - suspect she fights). However, whilst that might explain the reaction it does not mean it is an acceptable way to behave - particularly to continue with it. Lots of armchair analysis there - none of it remotely evidenced and just a suggestion.

I suspect she has limited insight into why she behaves the way she does (whatever the reason) and is reacting emotionally still. A previous poster suggested EUPD - and whilst that is a diagnosis that may be best avoided there does come with that an intense fear of abandonment.

I think couples counselling would be helpful but given your wife’s father then she might really benefit from individual therapy as well. That’s all a lot of work though and she may not have the energy for it at the moment.

Good luck, you sound a caring man.

burnoutbabe · 24/02/2023 10:58

wasn't wife back at hotel before Op got back, having had a sauna?

hardly someone who was wandering the slopes deseperate to find her other half and convinced he was dead?

this does show the importance of having A MEETING POINT if people get seperated - less important when we all have mobiles but needed for times like this - i even agree one when i am with boyfriend in say America and mobiles may decide what to work - first head to last place we were together. then if not, at say entance to the park/attraction (but not go OUT), then back at hotel if all else fails.

I imagine skiers must have some agreement as to what to do if get seperated and will wait in X spot or just meet back at hotel.

GoldDuster · 24/02/2023 13:26

Can I just ask, if

generally she's lovely.

and your inability to move past this is genuinely causing you to consider that it could be the end of the marriage, can you accept that you are cutting your nose off to spite your face by hanging on to this?

Would you genuinely let this be the end of the marriage?

Does it genuinely feel impossible for you to apologise for the hurt you caused on that day by the actions you took and the choices you made and let her know very clearly that you are sorry and you want to move past it, whatever that entails?

I'm sure she's got her part in this, but she's not here, and the only thing you can work on is your own behaviour.

greengriff · 24/02/2023 14:17

GoldDuster · 24/02/2023 13:26

Can I just ask, if

generally she's lovely.

and your inability to move past this is genuinely causing you to consider that it could be the end of the marriage, can you accept that you are cutting your nose off to spite your face by hanging on to this?

Would you genuinely let this be the end of the marriage?

Does it genuinely feel impossible for you to apologise for the hurt you caused on that day by the actions you took and the choices you made and let her know very clearly that you are sorry and you want to move past it, whatever that entails?

I'm sure she's got her part in this, but she's not here, and the only thing you can work on is your own behaviour.

I didn't say I was considering ending my marriage. I said it's at its lowest ebb. My goal from this thread was to try and understand my wife better. Some fantastic responses have helped me to do that.

OP posts:
greengriff · 24/02/2023 14:20

@Ihavekids Your response near the start of this thread has been pivotal. I discussed your points with my wife and she agreed they were her in a nutshell. I just wanted to let you know how grateful I am.

OP posts:
WidthofaLine · 24/02/2023 16:00

I didn't say I was considering ending my marriage. I said it's at its
lowest ebb. My goal from this thread was to try and understand my wife
better. Some fantastic responses have helped me to do that.

No your wife is considering ending the marriage, still you don't know that YOU don't have all the choices.

She is allowed her own choices isn't she ?

greengriff · 24/02/2023 20:24

WidthofaLine · 24/02/2023 16:00

I didn't say I was considering ending my marriage. I said it's at its
lowest ebb. My goal from this thread was to try and understand my wife
better. Some fantastic responses have helped me to do that.

No your wife is considering ending the marriage, still you don't know that YOU don't have all the choices.

She is allowed her own choices isn't she ?

That's a bizarre reply. You can see that I was responding to a previous poster that suggested I was considering it. Also where did I say anywhere that I had all the choices? Your goat seems to have been gotten for some reason that escapes me.

OP posts:
FourFour · 24/02/2023 20:34

Xoxoxoxoxoxox · 21/02/2023 12:52

Perhaps she's inherited the same traits as her dad and is volatile, learned the same behavioural tactic and is using it on you but trying to avoid being confronted about it by you.

This. she sounds abusive and really messed up with issues.

GoldDuster · 24/02/2023 21:00

Would you genuinely let this be the end of the marriage?

I didn't specify who would end it.

Brookes99 · 24/02/2023 21:02

This was last year and its still an issue? I wonder if she just wants out, for whatever reason, and the holiday situation is just her excuse. I don't think anything other than couples counselling is going to fix something that is so longstanding I'm afraid

pizzaHeart · 24/02/2023 21:27

I’ve only read the first 2 pages but my view is somewhere around @RedRocketGirl and @hamstersarse .
I don’t think you are completely right. You chose to go in a different direction in a difficult situation. We don’t know how you were talking to her, we were not there. You sounded in your first post too sure that you were right. However there are always 2 parts in communication and each of them makes its contribution in miscommunication.

WidthofaLine · 24/02/2023 21:51

GoldDuster · 24/02/2023 21:00

Would you genuinely let this be the end of the marriage?

I didn't specify who would end it.

Quite.

barmycatmum · 24/02/2023 22:00

Nope nope nope. She doesn’t get to hurl insults at you and expect you to chase her.
LTB. I’m sorry, but this is not workable.

3LittleFishes · 25/02/2023 08:32

The mental gymnastics some posters on this thread have gone through to make this OP's 'fault' are astounding to me.
The nitpicking and barrage of questions trying to turn it around on him would not have happened if he was a woman, in fact posters would be rightly told not to victim blame.
We only ever get one side of the story on mn however whilst women generally receive masses of support men are questioned aggressively by some so they can pick holes in the story and make sure the woman in the relationship is never at fault.

Dreamsy · 25/02/2023 08:52

That's a bizzare answer and needless attack on the OP...

Dreamsy · 25/02/2023 08:53

Dreamsy · 25/02/2023 08:52

That's a bizzare answer and needless attack on the OP...

Was referring to @WidthofaLine

ferneytorro · 25/02/2023 09:07

ComeTheFckOnBridget · 21/02/2023 14:06

@Eleganz what "come to jesus" talk? 🤨

The usual come to Jesus talk!

Whatdirection · 25/02/2023 09:39

I experienced a similar incident with my then husband.

We were on holiday with our boys who were 11 and 15 and went for a walk. We were in a bit of a huff with one another about something.

My husband and sons were striding ahead and l hung back feeling fed up but still following the same path. A bit of a distance built up but l could still see them.

At some point, the terrain changed suddenly and became much steeper, rocky, and far more mountainous. It became an uphill scramble. I lost sight of my family and felt very exposed. A really strong wind whipped up and l literally felt in a life or death situation. Clinging onto the side of the mountain, forcing myself up a steep slope, feeling like the wind was going to blow me off. I felt totally abandoned.

l couldn’t believe my husband didn’t come back to see if l was ok.

l made it to the top to find them all sitting there munching Kit Kats without a single care for me.

l collapsed and burst into hysterical sobbing. My husband was at a complete loss and could not see what he had done wrong.

The fallout carried on through out the day into the evening. He could not empathize with my very deep sense of abandonment that l felt. He even said that my disproportionate reaction was damaging to our marriage.

l actually felt that something broke between us that day.

We put it behind us, l swallowed my feelings and accepted we had different perspectives.

However we are now divorcing, following further instances of lack of empathy and his inability to see and validate my needs.

Op, l get your frustration but a feeling of abandonment is a very deep reaction and can come from a place of trauma. It’s important that you ‘get’ that even though it feels like logically you are in the right.

l think your wife has a lot of work to do but maybe the ski-ing incident highlighted a chasm between you and your inability to empathize with her emotions and your rationalization of the situation have left her questioning the bond you have.

Alpiniste · 25/02/2023 12:41

She doesn’t sound lovely, her actions show her to behave otherwise.

To summarize: she wants the right to tell you to fuck-off; to escalate when you don’t and to whine for months if you do? She just wants you to be the receptacle for every negative emotion she has, and you are being the „boiled frog“.
She has stated outright that you are to accept being at fault even if she is being a twat. That should be a hard, incredulous at being asked, „No“. When someone tells you who they are- believe them.

Your marriage is dedicated to your father in law’s temper, channeled through his daughter. She obviously has no interest in changing, and her behavior would instantly give me a serious case of the ick. How can you stomach going to bed with someone who has a chunk of their personality that’s stuck aged 3 or 4?

Her commentary about the retirement plans would truly have me creased up in laughter- imagine being so deluded as to think anyone would waste precious years of their lives waiting for the next attack.

have the kids suggested to you yet that you don’t have to continue being abused, and that it’s OK to leave? Having been through this, you may be surprised at the amount of congratulations you receive on walking away from a foul tempered specimen.

What are her good qualities that make this acceptable to you.

CDiamond · 25/02/2023 12:44

Whatdirection · 25/02/2023 09:39

I experienced a similar incident with my then husband.

We were on holiday with our boys who were 11 and 15 and went for a walk. We were in a bit of a huff with one another about something.

My husband and sons were striding ahead and l hung back feeling fed up but still following the same path. A bit of a distance built up but l could still see them.

At some point, the terrain changed suddenly and became much steeper, rocky, and far more mountainous. It became an uphill scramble. I lost sight of my family and felt very exposed. A really strong wind whipped up and l literally felt in a life or death situation. Clinging onto the side of the mountain, forcing myself up a steep slope, feeling like the wind was going to blow me off. I felt totally abandoned.

l couldn’t believe my husband didn’t come back to see if l was ok.

l made it to the top to find them all sitting there munching Kit Kats without a single care for me.

l collapsed and burst into hysterical sobbing. My husband was at a complete loss and could not see what he had done wrong.

The fallout carried on through out the day into the evening. He could not empathize with my very deep sense of abandonment that l felt. He even said that my disproportionate reaction was damaging to our marriage.

l actually felt that something broke between us that day.

We put it behind us, l swallowed my feelings and accepted we had different perspectives.

However we are now divorcing, following further instances of lack of empathy and his inability to see and validate my needs.

Op, l get your frustration but a feeling of abandonment is a very deep reaction and can come from a place of trauma. It’s important that you ‘get’ that even though it feels like logically you are in the right.

l think your wife has a lot of work to do but maybe the ski-ing incident highlighted a chasm between you and your inability to empathize with her emotions and your rationalization of the situation have left her questioning the bond you have.

This. Abolsutely this.

TedMullins · 25/02/2023 13:11

Whatdirection · 25/02/2023 09:39

I experienced a similar incident with my then husband.

We were on holiday with our boys who were 11 and 15 and went for a walk. We were in a bit of a huff with one another about something.

My husband and sons were striding ahead and l hung back feeling fed up but still following the same path. A bit of a distance built up but l could still see them.

At some point, the terrain changed suddenly and became much steeper, rocky, and far more mountainous. It became an uphill scramble. I lost sight of my family and felt very exposed. A really strong wind whipped up and l literally felt in a life or death situation. Clinging onto the side of the mountain, forcing myself up a steep slope, feeling like the wind was going to blow me off. I felt totally abandoned.

l couldn’t believe my husband didn’t come back to see if l was ok.

l made it to the top to find them all sitting there munching Kit Kats without a single care for me.

l collapsed and burst into hysterical sobbing. My husband was at a complete loss and could not see what he had done wrong.

The fallout carried on through out the day into the evening. He could not empathize with my very deep sense of abandonment that l felt. He even said that my disproportionate reaction was damaging to our marriage.

l actually felt that something broke between us that day.

We put it behind us, l swallowed my feelings and accepted we had different perspectives.

However we are now divorcing, following further instances of lack of empathy and his inability to see and validate my needs.

Op, l get your frustration but a feeling of abandonment is a very deep reaction and can come from a place of trauma. It’s important that you ‘get’ that even though it feels like logically you are in the right.

l think your wife has a lot of work to do but maybe the ski-ing incident highlighted a chasm between you and your inability to empathize with her emotions and your rationalization of the situation have left her questioning the bond you have.

If your husband and kids made it over the terrain fine why would it occur to him to have to check on you? Trauma or not, this is a you problem, and the wife on the ski slope is a her problem. I’ve got childhood trauma. I’ve got a BPD diagnosis. But I did therapy and work on myself because I realised it isn’t acceptable to use that as carte Blanche to subject partners to my disproportionate emotions.

Alpiniste · 25/02/2023 13:11

Op, l get your frustration but a feeling of abandonment is a very deep reaction and can come from a place of trauma. It’s important that you ‘get’ that even though it feels like logically you are in the right.

but what is the point in OP getting it, if she won’t or cannot?
I also find framing his response as “abandonment” really ropey. She told him to fuck off- to which the only response is “okey dorky.” If she meant “I feel frustrated and upset” (again) she should have just said so. Instead she threw away her marriage for a slightly icy blue run. Slow hand clap for her- looking to blame him for having a bit of self respect is pathetic.

TedMullins · 25/02/2023 13:15

Alpiniste · 25/02/2023 13:11

Op, l get your frustration but a feeling of abandonment is a very deep reaction and can come from a place of trauma. It’s important that you ‘get’ that even though it feels like logically you are in the right.

but what is the point in OP getting it, if she won’t or cannot?
I also find framing his response as “abandonment” really ropey. She told him to fuck off- to which the only response is “okey dorky.” If she meant “I feel frustrated and upset” (again) she should have just said so. Instead she threw away her marriage for a slightly icy blue run. Slow hand clap for her- looking to blame him for having a bit of self respect is pathetic.

Exactly this! I used to be the person who’d hurl abuse at a partner and storm off, expecting/hoping for them to chase me. Now I’m out of the other side of years of therapy I can see that it was me in the wrong, not them. If someone told me to fuck off I wouldn’t chase them. I would duly fuck off. I also now wouldn’t tell someone to fuck off unless that’s what I actually wanted them to do. Anything else is mind games.

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