Desperately in need of help to understand my wife (and myself)!

[greengriff]

I’m really in need of some advice. My relationship with my wife is currently at its lowest ebb. There are many reasons, but I wanted to focus on just one of them, an incident that took place on holiday last year. I want to talk about this incident firstly because my wife described this it as the ‘breaking point’ in our marriage and that it caused her to hate me a little bit, and secondly because I don’t understand why she blames me for it and I would really, really like to.

First a bit of what I believe is relevant background information: My wife grew up with a very domineering father. She chafed under his rules and couldn’t wait to get out of his house and rule her own life. Consequently, anything she even perceives as an attempt by me to tell her what to do is like a red rag to a bull and is guaranteed to lead to an instant confrontation. She views these kind of moments through the dynamic of sex (i.e. ‘you think because you’re the man that you should be in charge..’ etc.) whereas I view them as simply a clash of two quite dominant personalities. She very much emphasizes her independence as a grown woman from the need for a man and considers it patronising and reacts negatively if I ever have an opinion (apart from praise) regarding how she’s doing something. She is an extremely intelligent, strong-willed and capable person who, if she decides she’s going to do something, will work ceaselessly until she does. She’s definitely not one of life’s victims.

Anyway, to the point: We were on a skiing holiday last year. The slope at the time was very icy but pitch-wise it was nothing extreme. To give some perspective she’d skied steeper slopes many dozens (maybe even hundreds) of times before and there were at least a hundred other people on it of all levels. But it was indeed icy and unpleasant to ski and she was not definitely having fun, so - seeing that she was struggling - I offered to help. She shouted some abuse at me and skied off. Feeling thoroughly pssed off that an attempted act of kindness elicited such an unexpected response, I skied off in a different direction to do my own thing. When we met back at the hotel in the afternoon she told me that I’d abandoned her, leaving her scared and alone, ignored her calls, left her with no money and no idea how to get back to the hotel and that the whole thing was my fault. This obviously irritated the living sht out of me as I believed that I’d done nothing wrong and was in fact the wronged party.

This argument never really went away and we got stuck into it again last night, where some extra details were added that only increased my frustration and lack of understanding of her, and maybe even myself:

She said she needs a husband who’s there for her regardless of what she says. But for me it’s not what she says, it’s what she does. If she insults me and storms off am I supposed to go and plead with her to come back?

She then said that I would not have left a child in the same situation, to which I agreed, but said that she is a capable and responsible adult and therefore it’s different. She then said she wants the same kind of love and caring that I’d give a child and that she needs me to ‘be the man’ and ‘be her hero’ and be committed to her safety even when she’s acting like a twat.

And finally she said that she wants someone who would move a mountain for her even when she’d directly told them not to!

Thinking about this just makes my head ache! For 99.9% of the time in our relationship if I’d gone directly against her wishes or treated her like I would a child it would have led to an explosion that made Hiroshima look tame! Yet I’m supposed to do this – to ‘be the man’ and make her act against her own will – at certain times when she’s most angry and attacking? And not doing so is my fault and makes her hate me!?

What does this actually mean? That her ‘independent woman’ persona is not real? That it is real, right up until the moment that it isn’t, and I’m supposed to know when those moments are and switch role to the helpful patriarch? Something else?

If someone can shed some light on this please do as I’m really struggling. If I can’t solve this puzzle our relationship is likely to fail, and that’s the last thing I want.

Maybe it’s not her and there’s actually something wrong with me! If you think so, please tell me straight!

It sounds as if, despite wanting to be an ‘independent woman’ she is actually determined to play the victim in all situations.

You are clearly articulate and thoughtful about the relationship which is wonderful, so it’s time to put that to good use and get to couples therapy together.

While I feel terribly sorry for her that she had a cruel father, it doesn’t mean that she can let these feelings play out and in turn be cruel to you. It’s never going to help.

Do either of you have therapy at the moment? I know couples therapy sounds dramatic and can feel like a failure, it actually can be bloody brilliant.

For example, My good friend had a problem with her husbands excessive social drinking, they attended therapy together and it has been wonderful for them - they really had to stop and see things from the each others point of view, with a neutral arbiter to help.

I hope she agrees to it, as without it I just can’t see that you’ll ever figure it out. She is being wildly unfair currently, and the relationship can’t last in this vein.

Best of luck

Yes, that's what she definitely should have said. She didn't because she had reverted to her scared child self. She expects you to be all things to her, like she told you. But it's literally impossible for you to always know the 'correct' way to behave.
I'd tell her how much difficulty your having knowing how she wants you to behave and ask her to consider therapy.
Good luck xx

I agree with that. I'd be happy to know that, when push comes to shove, she'd like me to take the lead. But she's spent our entire relationship insisting on the opposite! Then suddenly I'm in the wrong for not doing what she's always insisted I should not do. That's what I struggle with.

Thank you. I will look into it. Is therapy not the same as counselling? I know couples that have been to counselling and said it was useless and that they had already thought of everything that the counsellor suggested.

Thank you.

Sounds like the root cause it's on her side but there as pp said there are always responses which can help or hinder.
The way through is communication and self awareness on both sides.
My DD is autistic so her responses aren't always what you'd expect or be prepared for. However I know what is likely to trigger an upset so will modify my approach to those things (because I can, and it helps). I know your DW isn't autistic but all relationships are the alchemy of two people ultimately so I think you can get through this with adjustments chosen through effective communication.
She'll need to be part of that though so it does depend on how much responsibility she's willing to take. As she's a strong character it might be helpful to frame it as taking control and managing the unwanted toxic legacy of her awful father.

Thanks. I will look into it.

Sounds to me like there is a lot of noise and escalation around a basic communication problem. My first reaction to your post was did you really just ask her if there was anything that you could do to help or did you immediately start telling her what she needed to do? How did you phrase it exactly? This is important.

My partner and I do a sport together and sometimes he will give me helpful advice, but this isn't always well received especially when I am struggling, as I know what I should be doing but clearly I am struggling to do it! He's intending to be supportive and helpful and what he says is totally right, but I feel critiqued and criticized which makes me snappy in response.

So she snapped and you then went off in a huff and abandoned her and then you doubled down by sulking and ignored her calls. She was out of order, but you have also been an utter arse to do that. Maybe she initially called you to apologise and or to ask for your help.... but sulking like that is really toxic to any relationship and I would have be pretty pissed off to be treated that way and more so that you view yourself as the injured party. Sounds to me like you were both being dickheads.

Like other posters I think all this 'hero' stuff is strange and also unreasonable, but maybe it's her way of saying that if you really cared you wouldn't have abandoned her and gone off in a sulk because she was struggling and having a bad day. By all means give her space but at least answer a phone call / wait at the ski lift etc.

I think your only hope is relationship and maybe individual counselling.

I don't bow down. Maybe that's part of the problem! But I am resentful that I have been painted as the bad guy and told this incident broke our marriage when I don't think I did the wrong thing.

She said she needs a husband who’s there for her regardless of what she says.

That's not a healthy relationship, that's a doormat. All this move mountains for me when I've told you not to, I can behave like I want and you have to know how to "handle" me, is unhealthy. She's testing you, and that's not a good basis for a balanced relationship.

I agree with @JamSandle about attachment styles being useful to look into.

It's not the argument itself that's the issue, it's an unmet need behind the argument that you need to put your finger on.

i think you need to find a way to have this conversation with your wife.

tell her that you love that she's an independent, competent, capable woman.

but also tell her that if there are times she needs more support/care from you, that that is understandable, that you will always do your best to be that person for her (assuming you want to).

but that you have trouble recognising when those times are, given that 99% of the time she presents as ultra-capable.

i also agree that she's probably got a lot to unpick from her childhood.
but i doubt she would thank you for being the one to suggest this.

Thank you. She is of the view that it's me that needs to change as I did the wrong thing. Her rationale being that she wanted to explore the world with me but no longer feels safe to do so as I might just abandon her! Which ignores the fact that she was the one who left me. I just didn't follow. And why would I? It was a busy public place in a first world country, hardly the backwaters of Afghanistan.

You are not at fault here it is your wife.

You cannot and should not be expected to tolerate silly, childish and slightly abusive behaviour.

The fact that this issue is still being thrown at you a year later is very worrying and must be symptomatic of other issues within your relationship.

Your wife is no longer a child so she needs to stop acting like one.

Not many men would tolerate her behaviour. I think she is taking you for granted but you also somehow seem to like the fact that you are a ‘match’ of sorts for her.

what’s the other issues?

No there was a free bus to the hotel and she had her bank card.

She is just using it as a stick to beat you with

how many times are you going to let her do it though?

she clearly gets something from bringing it up? Tell her she is acting like her father?

this sounds like a tough one and I admire your perseverance 😊. I agree with other posters that counselling is the way to go, and I would suggest going as a couple.
I’d also like to say that there are bad counsellors out there as well as good ones (I’ve experienced both), so if you feel you aren’t gelling with one, try another. A counsellor’s role is not to give advice, or to ‘suggest’ really, but to help you get deep into, and explore your own feelings and to get you to stop ‘talking in circles’ as a friend of mine once put it. They’re a bit like a mediator in a way, and a good one should be able to help you sort this out and get you both to understand each other better.
wishing you the best of luck 😊

I'm going to try to explain a bit more. As a kid, she was never loved through her vulnerability by her Dad. If she was vulnerable, sad, scared she never learnt that this was an OK feeling and that her Dad would love her anyway. So now, as an adult, in a sad, scared, vulnerable situation she finds it hard to be accepted. So she hits out and pushes away the people she loves, so that she won't be rejected by them for being dad, scared, vulnerable. It's disorganized and avoidant attachment. If you look up those 2 forms of attachments suspect it'll be enlightening.
Therapy for her will involve realizing why she reacts like she does and hopefully resolving some of it. It might be quite painful for her but from what she's saying, about expecting you to look after her like a child, even if she misbehaved, be her hero etc, I think she'd really benefit.
I hope you guys can sort it out.

This.

Run for the hills. There's no shortage of other, available women on the planet.

Too complex to go into here, but there's no doubt that my own actions/reactions have been far, far from perfect too. However I can understand those problems, my role in them, and what I/we might do about them. This is the one that I plagues me because I genuinely cannot see my fault. She is so insistent that it is - that I really wanted to double and triple check that I'm not missing something.

Unfortunately I'm not interested in them. Only this one.

Skiing down an icy mountain is only second to childbirth in being a reason for saying awful things to someone who is trying to help

I have shouted awful things at my partner when he has tried to help me in icy ski conditions. Awful things.

However, what I would say is that he has never actually left me. He didn't take it seriously - these are moments of quite intense stress and you say awful things sometimes. I know what people might say to that - "you should never say awful things" but the unfortunate fact is that when under stress, we do say bad things.

Me and my partner can laugh about my outbursts on the slopes now - all at my expense I would add. I wonder why you cannot?

I'm trying to think if I'd be pissed off if he left me....I think I would. I think I know what she means - you are literally in a moment of sheer terror and need someone and they fuck off? I'm wondering if you took it a bit personally - could you have just got out of her way for a bit, rather than going completely?

I'll get flamed for saying all of this but just trying to understand why you both can't laugh about it. In your circumstance you both did something wrong, it's worse in mine as I am the one who was a dick and he wasn't so I have to take that on the chin?

Thank you so much. That's an extremely interesting answer.

I think she would benefit from some therapy

Bets in that at some point in her life she has posted or said "if you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best".

Bonus points if she attributed it to Marilyn Monroe.

This sort of behaviour is exhausting, immature and manipulative. I wouldn't put up with it to be honest, I don't have any real advice because I'd just leave. Good luck though.

This explains alot!