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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Desperately in need of help to understand my wife (and myself)!

373 replies

greengriff · 21/02/2023 12:14

I’m really in need of some advice. My relationship with my wife is currently at its lowest ebb. There are many reasons, but I wanted to focus on just one of them, an incident that took place on holiday last year. I want to talk about this incident firstly because my wife described this it as the ‘breaking point’ in our marriage and that it caused her to hate me a little bit, and secondly because I don’t understand why she blames me for it and I would really, really like to.

First a bit of what I believe is relevant background information: My wife grew up with a very domineering father. She chafed under his rules and couldn’t wait to get out of his house and rule her own life. Consequently, anything she even perceives as an attempt by me to tell her what to do is like a red rag to a bull and is guaranteed to lead to an instant confrontation. She views these kind of moments through the dynamic of sex (i.e. ‘you think because you’re the man that you should be in charge..’ etc.) whereas I view them as simply a clash of two quite dominant personalities. She very much emphasizes her independence as a grown woman from the need for a man and considers it patronising and reacts negatively if I ever have an opinion (apart from praise) regarding how she’s doing something. She is an extremely intelligent, strong-willed and capable person who, if she decides she’s going to do something, will work ceaselessly until she does. She’s definitely not one of life’s victims.

Anyway, to the point: We were on a skiing holiday last year. The slope at the time was very icy but pitch-wise it was nothing extreme. To give some perspective she’d skied steeper slopes many dozens (maybe even hundreds) of times before and there were at least a hundred other people on it of all levels. But it was indeed icy and unpleasant to ski and she was not definitely having fun, so - seeing that she was struggling - I offered to help. She shouted some abuse at me and skied off. Feeling thoroughly pssed off that an attempted act of kindness elicited such an unexpected response, I skied off in a different direction to do my own thing. When we met back at the hotel in the afternoon she told me that I’d abandoned her, leaving her scared and alone, ignored her calls, left her with no money and no idea how to get back to the hotel and that the whole thing was my fault. This obviously irritated the living sht out of me as I believed that I’d done nothing wrong and was in fact the wronged party.

This argument never really went away and we got stuck into it again last night, where some extra details were added that only increased my frustration and lack of understanding of her, and maybe even myself:

She said she needs a husband who’s there for her regardless of what she says. But for me it’s not what she says, it’s what she does. If she insults me and storms off am I supposed to go and plead with her to come back?

She then said that I would not have left a child in the same situation, to which I agreed, but said that she is a capable and responsible adult and therefore it’s different. She then said she wants the same kind of love and caring that I’d give a child and that she needs me to ‘be the man’ and ‘be her hero’ and be committed to her safety even when she’s acting like a twat.

And finally she said that she wants someone who would move a mountain for her even when she’d directly told them not to!

Thinking about this just makes my head ache! For 99.9% of the time in our relationship if I’d gone directly against her wishes or treated her like I would a child it would have led to an explosion that made Hiroshima look tame! Yet I’m supposed to do this – to ‘be the man’ and make her act against her own will – at certain times when she’s most angry and attacking? And not doing so is my fault and makes her hate me!?

What does this actually mean? That her ‘independent woman’ persona is not real? That it is real, right up until the moment that it isn’t, and I’m supposed to know when those moments are and switch role to the helpful patriarch? Something else?

If someone can shed some light on this please do as I’m really struggling. If I can’t solve this puzzle our relationship is likely to fail, and that’s the last thing I want.

Maybe it’s not her and there’s actually something wrong with me! If you think so, please tell me straight!

OP posts:
joan12 · 21/02/2023 12:19

I really, really feel for you, you must be walking on eggshells. I am sorry though that I think unless your wife engages with some serious therapy for a long time to gain some insight this will not improve. And the length of time it may take may not work for you. Honestly, I'd walk now before it all leaves you an emotional wreck. It's not you.

schmalex · 21/02/2023 12:21

I don't think it's you but it's hard to work it out on a forum. It sounds like she has some issues stemming from childhood that might benefit from therapy.

My DH and I also had couples therapy and it was really useful to have someone facilitate a conversation between us - it definitely helped us understand each other better.

joan12 · 21/02/2023 12:21

Just to clarify, she sounds in a sort of EUPD area even if she may not fully meet the criteria for a diagnosis. You could research it a bit and see what you think, but don't stay entangled in it.

Fizzadora · 21/02/2023 12:23

Sorry mate she sounds like a bloody nutcase. She could have unresolved issues from her domineering Dad. This is the usual excuse trotted out for unreasonable behaviour. Therapy is always recommended. That or it's ADHD so needs medicating.
Can't wait for the posts telling you all about your male privilege.

gettingalifttothestation · 21/02/2023 12:24

So she wants a husband to just take her crap and get on with it ? It doesn't work that way. It's mutual respect and caring for each other that works for us. She has a massive chip on her shoulder probably due to childhood. I think you need to call her out on it. What's the point in bowing down to her then you will be the resentful one

Xrays · 21/02/2023 12:25

It’s not you, it’s her. And she’s gaslighting you to make you think it’s you.

ComeTheFckOnBridget · 21/02/2023 12:26

It sounds to me that your wife has some deep seated emotional issues, which I don't mean to sound dismissive, but are things that need to be worked through in counselling (eg sounds like she doesn't have a healthy attachment profile).

I think anyone would struggle with the push-pull nature of her attitude and while I have immense sympathy for her (there's a wounded child at its heart) she needs to recognise her behaviour isn't ok and seek help. This doesn't negate legitimate issues she has with you or the relationship, but her behaviour is that of someone who has been terribly hurt in the past, an unhealed emotional wound or trauma that triggered overwhelming feelings. Its not acceptable to verbally abuse you when she's hurt, scared or otherwise and you don't have to put up with it.

In order for you both to move past thus, dwell need to recognise and accept that her behaviour isn't OK and commit to the work to heal and change it. She may not be able to do this so it's ok to walk away.

ComeTheFckOnBridget · 21/02/2023 12:27

*she'll

SoCunningYouCanStickATailOnItAndCallItAFox · 21/02/2023 12:28

Your actions are being viewed through the prism of her upbringing while her reactions are stemming from the emotional landscape created or if that time not a place of rational reason.
As understandable as that is, (sounds like a tough upbringing) it isn't fair to expect you to adjust all your thinking and actions to fit this problem as you will inevitably fail as you can't anticipate all the rules.
The only real solution is for her to do some self examination to unpick what is fair and what is not in her expectations of her partner. This will take time and work, assuming she even recognises this needs doing.
If she won't even consider it then I can't see this lasting as it relies on your submission to her (sadly skewed) reality.
If course this is based only on what you have shared in your op, there might be more to it from her pov.
Perhaps a step in the right direction would be couples counselling so who needs to work on what can be agreed at least.

fufulina · 21/02/2023 12:30

Did you leave her without money or a way to get back to the hotel?

catfunk · 21/02/2023 12:33

I couldn't be arsed with this, life's too short.
I'd call her out on it every time and seriously consider ending the relationship unless she will engage in therapy.

StopFeckingFaffing · 21/02/2023 12:35

I can totally see how the ski situation occurred but the fact that she is not prepared to move on from it is a bit ridiculous

I am no stranger to frustration on the slopes and it is hugely frustrating when you view yourself as a strong independent women yet find yourself frozen in fear half way down a mountain and needing to be 'rescued' by a man!

If she is unable to accept any blame for the situation and insists you were in the wrong then that suggests an extreme lack of insight.

Only you can decide if you are willing to accept and live with this side of her character. She is unlikely to change.

squashyhat · 21/02/2023 12:41

I think you have received some (unusually!) reasonable responses and good suggestions here. I hope you can find a way to discuss the situation dispationately with her and she's amenable to counselling.

Climbles · 21/02/2023 12:43

Did you know she had no money and no way of getting back to the hotel? Why did you ignore her calls? You shouldn’t have left her stranded even if she was being stroppy with you but you both behaved badly so I’m not sure why it’s still such an issue. I can see why she’s be seething in the moment though.
I don’t get all this ‘be my hero’ business. Why is it acceptable for her to lose her temper and behave badly but not you?
Id be interested to hear her side. I think counselling could help you to understand each other more.

Spottycarousel · 21/02/2023 12:47

Sounds like she expected you to know exactly what she wanted even though she screamed no. She's like a child wanting to be emotionally held in a tantrum. I'd hazard a big guess that this stems from deep routed childhood issues and she needs to address these if your relationship has any hope of surviving. If she can't see a problem then sadly there's no hope.

Xoxoxoxoxoxox · 21/02/2023 12:52

Perhaps she's inherited the same traits as her dad and is volatile, learned the same behavioural tactic and is using it on you but trying to avoid being confronted about it by you.

Sunriseinwonderland · 21/02/2023 12:54

I don't think you are ever going to win with this one to be honest.
There don't seem to be any rules - make it up as you go along.
I think I'd probably be off.

firstmummy2019 · 21/02/2023 12:55

Individual counselling for her and couple's counselling to give you both a chance to talk in a controlled, neutral environment.

Fraaahnces · 21/02/2023 12:56

Honestly, if she is bring up stuff from a year ago and wanting you to be one thing AND it’s polar opposite, I think you can safely say that she is setting you up for failure. She is abusive and perhaps just a little bit crazy. I don’t think this is going to work.

Moneymonkey · 21/02/2023 13:03

I have some level of sympathy with your wife - simply because I struggle with similar issues. I grew up with a narcissistic, emotionally manipulative mother who (for our daughter) my husband and I still have contact with.
When I have contact with my mum, or I'm in a high stress or anxiety-inducing situation; my temp mer frays quickly and I have an outburst at my husband.
That said; I've done a lot of work myself on recognising where the behaviour comes from, and now I am better at recognising it "coming" - which means I can warn my husband (usually with a phrase like "I'm really not okay - I'm not angry at you - but it's going to come out")

My husband has really struggled to adapt to me and my history; and it had caused massive blow ups like you are having now in our past. However, as I am improving my communication with what's going on inside me, he has made massive improvements in being able to do (or not do) whatever will help at the time.

I've written all this down to demonstrate how a couple where one has real emotional issues stemming from a poor parental experience can work - but only if your wife is prepared to recognise her behaviour (and only if she wants it to change).

Finally, and I say this politely; you won't be totally without fault. My husband is a defensive personality so didn't like accepting that simply ignoring my outbursts and walking away was actually making things worse (it was) - but actually; the more I point that out at the same time as becoming more measured, the more he appreciates it's not an adversarial situation, and he has a role too.

I wish you the best of luck

Ihavekids · 21/02/2023 13:04

Hi OP, I know lots of people are saying just leave but you got married so I'm presuming you took your vows seriously and want to try your hardest to figure this out so that you can stay married.

Your wife has unresolved issues from her childhood. In times of trauma and fear, she may well act like that child that is still hurting and seeming for love from her father, ( the love he provided was cold and dictatorial, not best for a child. )

I think you've minimized the ski incident. I think she was genuinely terrified but couldn't admit that so hit out at you verbally. So you detached and went off and did your thing. But she spent the whole slope terrified, then when she made it to the bottom you weren't there for her. It would have seemed to her like she could have died, and you weren't even there to check she was OK at the bottom. It'd be really hard for me to get past this in a relationship too.

But, of course she shouldn't have shouted and sworn at you, and instead admitted she was struggling and asked for you to at least stay close by. That's what most people would do.

It's impossible for you to know how you should behave, nurture the child or respect the grown woman? I feel for you.

I do think she has some awareness of her messed up reactions to things, and I think she'd benefit from therapy.

I think it's going to be difficult to maintain the relationship otherwise.

Best of luck.

greengriff · 21/02/2023 13:04

No. There was a free bus back to the hotel (the same one that I took) and she had her credit card. Just no cash.

OP posts:
greengriff · 21/02/2023 13:07

Ihavekids · 21/02/2023 13:04

Hi OP, I know lots of people are saying just leave but you got married so I'm presuming you took your vows seriously and want to try your hardest to figure this out so that you can stay married.

Your wife has unresolved issues from her childhood. In times of trauma and fear, she may well act like that child that is still hurting and seeming for love from her father, ( the love he provided was cold and dictatorial, not best for a child. )

I think you've minimized the ski incident. I think she was genuinely terrified but couldn't admit that so hit out at you verbally. So you detached and went off and did your thing. But she spent the whole slope terrified, then when she made it to the bottom you weren't there for her. It would have seemed to her like she could have died, and you weren't even there to check she was OK at the bottom. It'd be really hard for me to get past this in a relationship too.

But, of course she shouldn't have shouted and sworn at you, and instead admitted she was struggling and asked for you to at least stay close by. That's what most people would do.

It's impossible for you to know how you should behave, nurture the child or respect the grown woman? I feel for you.

I do think she has some awareness of her messed up reactions to things, and I think she'd benefit from therapy.

I think it's going to be difficult to maintain the relationship otherwise.

Best of luck.

Yes I took my vows seriously and am very much in love with her.

The ski slope was a regular and patrolled marked blue piste in a busy resort. Nothing outrageous. If she was scared, why not say 'I'm scared'? At which point I would have bent over backwards to help.

OP posts:
JamSandle · 21/02/2023 13:10

I think you're wife has a chaotic and avoidant/anxious attachment style. She can't expect you to read her mind and interpret all her behaviours especially when they send clashing messages.

greengriff · 21/02/2023 13:11

joan12 · 21/02/2023 12:19

I really, really feel for you, you must be walking on eggshells. I am sorry though that I think unless your wife engages with some serious therapy for a long time to gain some insight this will not improve. And the length of time it may take may not work for you. Honestly, I'd walk now before it all leaves you an emotional wreck. It's not you.

Thank you but I don't want to walk away. I want to learn how to we can get past it. Whether that's her problem that needs dealing with or mine is what I'm trying to establish.

OP posts:
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