Why are people against adoption?

[Afternoonteaandcake]

My boyfriend and I were talking about a friend who has sadly passed. She wanted a family and felt time was ticking on. I said she could have fostered or adopted and he said it's not the same. My boyfriend already has his own children. He said later that the adoption process can be hard which I agree.

2 guy friends said this to me years ago that women should have their own children so men can carry on the family name and genetics. I never realised how much people were against adoption.

@JustKittenAround , gently, if you are going through the adoption process, you will be expected to constantly challenge your own thinking (that word again!), often in the face of adversity.

Language is important. It is not ridiculous to ‘police’ speech. Words can be offensive and are used offensively. Hate speech is a crime.

It’s a shame that this thread has been hijacked by such a silly argument. In classic MN parlance, why choose this as your hill to die on? There are many adopters and adoptees here who would graciously lend you the wisdom of their lived experiences but you are persisting in your determination to cause offence.

@JustKittenAround why not print off this thread and show it to the SW who is assessing you, and get their point of view?

YOU aren’t grasping the point. I’m saying most people don’t know the right words and you’re just ignoring their actual intent in your rush to play victim. Bang on more about your “10 years” I’m sure you haven’t over talked that in your real life.

never said any of the words I use. Never said what I learn and move forward with. Just that is crap to ignore the intent of well meaning people,

ps it’s not attacking you, it’s standing up for well meaning people who you KNOW are well meaning but don’t use the right words in your eyes. Ugh.

stay mad and worried. I’ll raise my child to show grace and not get so sad about words when the meaning is not meant to be hurtful. Focus on what you do and save your worry for that. Hope that helps!

@JustKittenAround

Policing people’s language is ridiculous.

Explaining why a term is hurtful and damaging isn't policing language.

Most people don’t mean to offend and you know what they actually mean.

You didn't mean to offend by using a particular phrase but you've now been told that the phrase is hurtful and damaging.

Emotional intelligence is knowing that.

Emotional intelligence is knowing that if you've used a phrase without meaning to offend, then are told it's a hurtful and damaging phrase, it's best to stop using the phrase when engaging directly with the people who found it hurtful and damaging.

Show some grace before you get on your hind legs to be self righteous.

Show some grace before being combative and defensive, by explaining you didn't mean to offend but can acknowledge you now understand a particular phrase is hurtful and damaging.

@JustKittenAround , I see @mixedrecycling ’s 10 years and I raise you my 15 years of adoption experience. Lived experience is important and I am grateful to more experienced adopters and also adult adoptees who bring 360-degree thinking to the whole adoption narrative. You are just being very stubborn now. And also, I’m sorry to say, very personal in your responses. The adoption process is extremely stressful, so I am happy to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are more flexible of thinking and more empathetic and less combative and defensive in your everyday life.

I’ll just let you all go back to speculating the fitness of a stranger to be a parent just because she doesn’t agree with you, and allow you to savor being offended. Gross and self indulgent in my view, but it doesn’t hurt me I guess lol.

Said what i said. Now, I’ll flounce the thread and leave you to your echo chamber. Good day!

YOU aren’t grasping the point. I’m saying most people don’t know the right words and you’re just ignoring their actual intent in your rush to play victim. Bang on more about your “10 years” I’m sure you haven’t over talked that in your real life.

People often don’t know the right words, but having had it mentioned by multiple people in the same thread, I’d expect people to then change their language accordingly. If there’s no intent to be hurtful, upon finding that a number of people with skin in the game find a particular term hurtful, the emotionally intelligent thing to do is change your language. Or to ask what preferable terms might be and use them.

I’m not sure why you feel it’s your job to defend other people’s choice of words, no-one is demonising anyone, no-one is “playing the victim”.

Choice of language matters, and evolves over time - words that were common parlance to identify race or disability are understood now to be prejudiced and offensive. Not everyone using those words intended offence, but offence was still caused, the language moved on and the offensive terms dropped out of common use. This issue is no different.

I’ll raise my child to show grace and not get so sad about words when the meaning is not meant to be hurtful

I was a great parent before I had kids, too.

I’ll raise my child to show grace

Like the grace @JustKittenAround has shown on this thread, no doubt!

'your rush to play victim'
'Bang on more about your “10 years” I’m sure you haven’t over talked that in your real life.'
'you get on your hind legs to be self righteous.'

Etc, etc

😂yes, I have a cupboardful of craft supplies because, of course, I was going to spend so much time with my angels doing wonderful projects together.

They found craft boring, I was constantly knackered...

@mixedrecycling , send the craft supplies here. I have an (adopted) DD(6) who has wrecked every carpet in my house as she is an obsessive crafter who never sleeps (autism) and draws and colours till the wee small hours. And leaves lids off pens. Every single night. I cannot wait for my children to move out so I can have a pristine home! 😅

@mixedrecycling , yes, I am on the cusp of DD1 going back into care. Sadly. The violence and stealing and anti-social behaviours are extreme. I don’t think I would see this as a failure, more an opportunity to protect our relationship for her adulthood? DD is a very bright girl (predicted all 7-9s for her GCSEs, I know this matters in MN land! I am desperately trying to help her manage her ten years without falling foul of the law as I am aware that if she has a criminal record, her employment opportunities will be blighted even further than they will be by her severe disabilities.

TEEN years!

@EmmatheStageRat I think that's the best way to see it. Once you are no longer setting the (much needed) boundaries you stop being the enemy in quite the same way.

Plus, there is the impact on DD2 as well - for us it was quite damaging as DD1 was trying to get her little sister to take her side.

I love how parents automatically think their little darlings will be so much easier with zero issues because they have passed on their genetics.

I love how parents automatically think their little darlings will be so much easier with zero issues because they have passed on their genetics
I'm not sure most parents do think that.

It's well known that ACEs affect children. The more ACEs a child has, the more likely they are to be affected by it.

The UK doesn't have a lot of newborn adoptions and the threshold for removal is high, so many of the children in the system are likely to have a range of ACEs, which other children won't have.

Being aware of this doesn't mean that you think your own genetic child won't have any difficulties.

I think it's interesting how the 3 men in the op who have mentioned adoption are against it.

Are they the type of old-fashioned men who think their sperm and their name is the greatest contribution (possibility only) to raising a child?

I think women (who in the main do the vast majority of child-rearing) might have a different view?

They don't think that it will be easier due to genetics. They think it will be easier because the kids will be safe and loved from day one, with no significant trauma...

Those who think biological children aren't fucked up by their biological parents are not living in the real world.

There wouldn't be many therapists and counsellors if they were only needed for people who have been adopted.

I'm not saying there aren't additional challenges when it comes to adoption (which is why potential parents are screened in a way that bio parents aren't) but those screened parents are generally able to do a really good job of parenting. They are (hopefully) going into it with eyes open and with a strong understanding of how to raise an adopted child successfully.

Some people seem to think adopted children are irreversible broken. That's not the case.

It tends to be the 'easy to place' babies that bring the biggest challenges.

By the time a child is in school generally (not always!) their issues are largely known and potential adopters in a good place to make sure the right support is in place before getting the adoption order. I know several adopters who had a year or so between placement and applying for the adoption order to make sure that all assessments, support plans, EHCP etc were in place. NOT because they had any second thoughts, but simply because that was the point at which the statutory services had legal responsibility to act and so the adopter was in a position to insist that these were done.

A baby has a lot of unknowns in terms of their needs, and while some will have minimal additional needs than any other baby, things like foetal alcohol/other substance exposure or the genetic aspects of severe mental health conditions (for example) are very difficult to predict and can have a major impact.

DD1 as an adult is pretty much who she was at 10 (via a very intense period in her teens when she was struggling to come to terms with the way she was let down by so many adults aged about 4-10). It helped that those early years were stable and her birth mum was in a good place in her life.

DD2 was an easy pre-schooler meeting all developmental milestones, whose needs became apparent when she went to school, then there was a nightmare period of getting those needs recognised. Finally she has an EHCP, is in a school who are very positive about supporting all their young people and value her as she is. She is now beginning to catch up - but has only just at 15 been assessed for ADHD, which has been on the radar since she was 6/7.

I know quite a few adopters of school age children, and with one exception they all say that things have turned out pretty much as predicted. Some ups and downs, of course, that's parenting. But no major surprises.

Most adopters I know are massively conscious and aware of the bittersweet nature of adoption, and the fact that birth parents have lost a child.

Where you see party poppers when an adoption order is made, or when adoptive parents are matched, what you don't see is the careful consideration of whether that will be insensitive, or is the wrong time. You don't see the deliberation that goes into deciding that the granting of the adoption order isn't a moment of celebration, but the celebration hearing at the Court is. Or that placement day isn't a day for celebration but some other day is.

What you also don't see is many adopters ongoing struggles to have balanced views about birth parents. These are people who have often done our children (yes, our own children) significant harm with lasting impacts. They are people that sometimes our initial instinct (as it is for any parent against someone who has harmed their child) is to despise them. What you don't see is the adopters educating themselves about intergenerational trauma, and the factors that led birth parents to their position, just so they can offer an accepting and balanced version of their children's life story as they get older. What you don't see is the adopters deciding to continue written contact or updates to birth parents even when it is frustrating or difficult because they think it is in their children's best interests.

It is a massively incorrect assumption that just because adopters celebrate becoming a family, they must not think about or be sensitive to birth parents' experience.

There's a big difference between the process of becoming a parent, and the experience of being a parent.

The process is obviously different - though both challenging in their own different ways. But the experience of being a parent isn't inherently different.

I say inherently because even though adopted kids have a greater chance of having additional needs or needing additional support, in practical terms, parenting a biological child is no different to parenting an adopted child with similar levels of needs.

Right, but the op is asking why people are ‘against’ adoption, why they don’t ‘just adopt’ if they can’t have kids etc. The answer is simple - they aren’t against it, they just may not be able/want to go through that specific very different process.

Of course choosing not to adopt isn't the same as being against adoption.

But this thread shows some very offensive and negative attitudes towards adoption.

@HeavenIsAHalfpipe

Also, although I know people are happy when they eventually do adopt, especially if it's a very young baby, (as opposed to a school age child for instance,) and joy ensues for everyone in the adoptive family circle, many people forget that on the other side of the coin is a different scenario. A sad and crestfallen mother who has had to give up her child. One of the most difficult things a woman will ever have to do.

Rightly or wrongly, this just doesn't sit well with me at all. The people who have 'adopted' popping party poppers and champagne, and everyone joining in the joy, when a woman has had to give up her BABY...

I'm adopted. I know dozens and dozens of adoptive families through various volunteering etc.

I don't know a single adoptive parent who doesn't regularly think of the birth mother of their children and feel huge empathy for the likely pain and suffering they endured when putting their child up for adoption.

"Many people" may forget about birth mothers, but in my experience not a single one of those "many people" are adoptive parents or adopted children who are now adults. You are not a mind reader and neither are you an adoptive parent or (I assume) adopted yourself, so you're basing what you said entirely on presumption.

Your implication that that is a common experience is at best ignorant and presumptuous, and at worst judgemental and offensive.