How to cope with an almost sexless marriage? Can counselling really help?

[LosingIt2022]

Hoping this is the most appropriate subforum.
I'm looking for some advice because the lack of sex life is putting a huge strain on our relationship.
I want to propose some form of couples therapy / counselling because this is the only way I can think of to make her understand how important this is to me; I do not expect miracles but I do not want to leave any stones unturned.
If nothing changes, I would at least like to understand if there are some coping strategies to help me not lose my sanity - I am banging my head against the wall while dying inside and she doesn't seem to take notice.

What are your experiences?
Is there really a solution for couples whose sex drives change so much over time?

The story:

I'm male, my wife and I are both mid 30s, we have 2 kids.

I have always had a higher sex drive but, while mine has remained constant, hers has been constantly plummeting.

It used to be about once a week, I imagined it would have become less frequent, but I never imagined once every 2-3 months.

When it happens, she gets really lost in the moment, which is amazing, but it has simply moved at the very bottom of her priority list: it will only happen if she's not too tired, if she has already finished her favourite TV series, if that night her best friend doesn't call her to rant about her new life as a divorcee, etc etc.

Any attempt at experimenting has been shot down mercilessly: new lingerie makes her feel under pressure, toys are not her thing.

I have tried to plan and set some time for ourselves in advance, but she says this makes her feel too much pressure.

Any attempt at communicating is very hard because she just does not want to talk about these things; she was brought up in a very conservative, not religious but Jane-Austen-like environment.

I asked if she would ever be willing to, well, tease me; there are times when she wants to cuddle and nothing more, is that really that different? Apparently for her yes, she was horrified at the idea.

I got really, really cross because a couple of weeks ago she told me in the morning that she would have actually wanted me but I was in the loft, working. Why didn't you call me? So I should just wait in bed for you to finish your TV series, on the off chance that once in a blue moon you might actually want me, but there can be no communication or planning?

I have lost count of the number of times I told her how I feel rejected and unimportant, and how I feel less important than a stupid TV series. It just doesn't register, it's as if I were speaking a different language.

There are lots of other things in the relationship which work really well, and they are a huge reason why I fancy her so much, but this remains a big problem.
I often wonder: had I known it would have ended up like this, would I have married this person and had 2 kids?

PS I feel I should probably clarify a few things.

I have made no mention of what should be a 'normal' sex drive because to me that is a rather meaningless concept. Some couples may do it every day, other couples may do it once a year and be happier, it all depends.

My benchmark is not some ill-founded concept of 'normality', but it is what we had at the beginning of our relationship.

I love my wife dearly, there are so many other things which work very well in our relationship and I do not take them for granted at all.

For all these reasons I suppose I could come to terms with a relationship where sex has almost vanished and I, well, go solo more than when I was 13...
What I am not willing to accept is a relationship where my other half is not even willing to talk about these issues which she knows are hugely important to me. E.g. it took her months to finally tell me that any attempt at planning made her feel under pressure. I find this (that it took her so long to tell me) unacceptable, a huge lack of respect.

And I do not think I should apologise for being clear about what I want and for the effect it is having on me, my mental health and our relationship - especially if what I want has always been clear and has remained the same since we started dating.

I am even willing to consider (obviously under medical guidance) if there is any medication that could help lower MY drive; but this must be a potential solution we explore after some form of couples therapy, and after she addresses her unwillingness to even talk about the problem. I'm not going to explore it just because she doesn't want to talk about the issue.

It’s more common than you think especially after child birth . That said you’re both still young and it’s unfair you are in a sexless marriage, no way should you take medicine to decrease your sex drive. Her unwillingness to even talk about this is a major problem, as much as you love her you have to decide whether this will be how life will be. My thoughts are the longer it goes on the less likely things will change .

To be fair if I'm watching a good series sex wouldn't be a priority either but yes couples therapy would help here do you help with chores kids so she's notelets with it all

I really really feel for you OP.
My best friend (who is a man) is in a very similar situation to you, in fact when I started reading I did wonder if you were him!
You're going to have to decide what you want and have some frank and honest discussions about whether if she is not willing to take action (therapy etc) you are a long term match.

How old are the kids ?
Does she work full time ?
How much housework/cooking etc do you both do, is it 50:50 ?

An excellent book on sex drive of women is Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski. Essential reading for you and you could pass it on to your wife to kick-start some conversation.

@Irisheyesareshining I really do not want to leave, if that is what you meant.
I do not believe that parents should remain together at all costs for the sake of their children: eg my parents should have separated, but they were arguing and fighting all the time in front of me and my brothers.
My wife and I are not, it's very different.

Would I remain if we didn't have children and nothing changed in the bedroom? I genuinely do not know. I try not to think about it because it is a hypothetical question.

I get it that childbirth, work issues and a number of other things can have a huge impact. But my point isn't that she isn't all over me while she's breastfeeding (our youngest is a toddler, not a baby), it's that, even excluding childbirth etc, the decline has been constant and inexorable, from 1-2 times a week to once every 3 months or so.

@Leomii81 @KangarooKenny Yes, I help with chores and kids. One of the reasons I tried to plan sex is that, when I can (which is about 90% of the times) I arrange my work so that I have dinner with the whole family, put the kids to bed then reconnect and finish some work. Planning sex may not be spontaneous but means I can plan my day. If she wants to watch a series today but may want me tomorrow great, I can plan around that. If the only way to have her is to wait for her in bed on the off chance she might want me after stricly or whatever it is she finds more important than me on the telly, no, f* no, just thinking about it makes me want to bang my head against the wall in anger.

A couple of times she told me she did want me, but wanted to watch Stricly first, and after that she was too tired. When she says this we argue furiously because my point is: admit if FFS, you find the telly more important than me, at least have the decency to admit it and don't insult my intelligence. I mean, if I want her but know that doing something makes me too tired, I won't do that thing if I want my wife more. She says I don't understand how important it is for her to relax with some TV; I do understand it, and I understand that that is more important for her than me.

We both work full time; the kids are 9 and 5. I don't begrudge her for being tired, I begrudge her for not even admitting that she finds TV more important than me. Oh, and by the way this happened even a couple of times we left the kids with the grandparents and went off on a night away on our own.

It does sound like communication is absolutely key, I'd agree. And being fairly blunt about that - that you want to go to couples therapy to develop better communication between you - is probably important. Got to be worth a try.

I also think that the 'planning puts ne under pressure' thing needs unpicking a lot more. It sounds as if her ideal state at the moment is one where she doesn't have sex at all, and any possible change to that state makes her feel 'pressured'. I wonder what feeling 'pressured' involves - dread? Resentment? Anger? Does she feel like having sex is 'giving in', losing power?

Something I didn't fully realise until having sex later in life is that my sex drive plummets when my child is in the same house. Not sure what the answer is there.

Also, what contraception or other medication is she on? I had zero sex drive - literally none - on the minipill; significantly less on the pill: a bit reduced on antidepressants.

Yes definitely recommend Come As You Are! How old are the kids? If young, sex will never go back to how it was pre-kids for some time, in my experience, so you need to forget that and come to a new normal with compromise from you both. Perhaps lots of non sexual touching, sending her for a girl's weekend away, making sure you are actually doing 50/50 etc. Read the book Fair Play - how much mental load are you taking on? Do you harass her asking her where everything is etc? Are you a sulker?
She sounds stuck in a rut and is bad at communication - sex therapist or normal couple's therapy would be helpful regardless.

If she’s on the pill that can reduce sex drive.
But to continually put a TV programme before sex with the man you love, making the most intimate connection, is wrong IMO. Are you happy to come second to a TV set ?
Honestly, as someone whose DH got ED due to antidepressants but then wouldn’t do anything about it, I say you should put yourself first. If she won’t have the conversation and do something about it, you should end it and find someone to make your relationship a priority. You’ve got one short life.

I think give counselling a go, you may be able to understand each other better in a neutral place with a trained professional arbitrating and guiding you through the conversation and then if things don't improve I would look into separating. There's really not much else to say about these situations. Cheating is not the answer and not many accept an open relationship. So give counselling a chance.

Sorry for you OP. I am a woman and ex-husband was disinterested for years and years. I couldn’t take it anymore frankly. I left him for a younger man and we are now divorced. I couldn’t contemplate the rest of my life with zero sex or intimacy. Much happier.

This is such a common occurrence, sorry op! If you suggest couples counselling, perhaps organise it plus the babysitting, and if she refuses then do individual counselling, then at least in future you will know you did what you could to save things.
Some people have affairs in this situation, in order to keep the marriage and family together for longer. There are both men and women in your situation and websites designed to help them connect.
It's only a useful solution if marriage is more important to you than anything else. Otherwise, counselling then leave.

Honestly the issue is actually often that women get bored of their partner quicker than men do. Their libido drops and doesn't come back until they separate and find a new partner. Rinse, repeat.

Ester Perel, Mating in Captivity, is worth a read/listen. She does a few podcasts on the subject as well

@PermanentTemporary "It sounds as if her ideal state at the moment is one where she doesn't have sex at all"

Not really, it's much more complicated than that. When she's up for it she gets really lost in the moment, the energy and the drive seem those of when we started dating, she remembers all that I like and isn't shy about asking for what she likes, etc. It is most categorically not 'duty sex' or 'pity sex', not even close.
BUT it happens once in a blue moon. All the stars must align for that to happen. And I mean Every. Single. One.

It's like, she doesn't make any effort for it to happen. If all the boxes happen to be ticked (no work to finish after putting the kids to bed, no needy friends or siblings calling her late at night, no row at work in the morning, etc) then MAAAAAYBE. But she will never not watch a TV series or tell her girlfriends "let's speak tomorrow" etc etc. I have run out of ways to express how this makes me feel diminished.

She is on no medication at the moment. One of the reasons she decided, very early on in the relationship, she wanted off the pill was a combination of weight gain + lowered sex drive. We use condoms (yes, we know they are not 100%).

As for the mental load, she's totally useless with anything that's to do with bureaucracy (which I don't understand because she's very organised with her work). When we were dating she once had her car clamped because she had forgot to pay the tax! So I plan all the holidays, choose the mortgage, keep track of when to renew insurance broadband and all of that.

To be clear: on balance she does more than me around the house. And I know I am not perfect, there are things she wished were different about me. But the fact she has or has had complaints doesn't mean I should ignore mine. Rather, we should try to address all of it together

Yes I think counselling would be brilliant
You can work on the communication and explore further this way

I personally ( I'm a women ) couldn't live like this - sorry but our sex hasn't changed really - it has in the fact we are more tired and it's changed how easy we can just do it!! But 2 kids work and life stresses we kind of do have to plan ! But we will say next Friday let's have a date night, eldest at nannies and when baby is bed let's have an us night.....then the other times we do it are just cheeky ones when we can. I think sex is not just sex, it's the intimacy, closeness, cuddles so any tv programme taking priori over that feeling is so wrong and so needs to be explored

Go to counselling id so recommend it x

Motherhood is tough. Having children changes your life and your priorities. However, in this case, your wife is clearly choosing a TV programme over you - repeatedly. To me, this means she is
tired and can’t be bothered OR she has lost interest in you. Similar thing happened in my marriage (although sex/intimacy had never been great with him anyway). I was busy with work, kids, my mum and the house - sex became less important over time and I realised I wasn’t attracted to
my husband (big age gap didn’t help). I lived it and accepted it but our marriage became 100% sexless and that was it. I could not change the way I felt. I’m hoping this isn’t the case for you but you need to be very aware she may just stop sex/intimacy with you altogether and very soon. And, looking back on what happened with us this means the relationship is nothing more than a platonic friendship. Like flatmates. Can you live with that? If not, move on.

I ended my marriage eventually (but after a decade of no sex/intimacy/nothing). And guess what made me do it? Another man.

Good luck but don’t stick it out if nothing changes. Your sex drive is normal and healthy - do not try to change it to suit her!

I also need to add that my first husband I felt like this looking back but I got bored of constantly being mum, the one who held the house together, I had to do everything so when it came to it I felt like I'd lost myself - that ended up in me leaving and feeling too young ( 25 at the time ) to feel like this....felt like an old women. Our issue was that we was having sex but it felt boring and old before my time.

When I left it was so difficult but rewind 10 years later I'm so happy and I could never ever imagine feeling like this with my now husband
Our sex life is better than ever and when I say sex like I said before not just sex but the intimacy side so I would be exploring her reasons because it sounds like it's not just about the lack of sex, there's always always more to it and deep rooted problem

This can be sorted through counselling but imo it will be one way or the other

Good luck op x

Counselling sounds like a good idea because I think you need to understand how she feels too.
Counselling will give you a safe place to talk about both sets of feelings.

Hi OP,
Im also male & in a sexless relationship , but I’m about 20 years older than you.
Reading you post & updates was really sad, it’s pretty clear you are bottom of her priority list, below even the TV,
in your situation I think I would be cutting my losses, and getting ready to leave the marriage and co-parent your children, you are only in my mid 30s, don’t be like me and be stuck in your mid 50s like this.

Agree a text code - a specific emoji, just on its own, so she can tell you when she's feeling good, and keep your phone with you. 🙂

Then take the pressure off. Nothing is less sexy than feeling pressured.

She sounds pretty dull - I couldn't live with that. LTB.

@MintJulia and what if that text arrives four times a year, with the OP constantly keyed up waiting for it??

Sorry did you say your kids are 9 and 5 yrs old? So she's still breastfeeding your 5 yr old?

My instinct is that you don't do enough around the home. The very fact that you have time to lie in bed waiting for her to finish tv instead of using that time to tidy/ wash/clean/do jobs shows that. There's always something to do. If she's working full time with two kids and then coming home and doing the majority of the housework then I'm not surprised she's tired.
The tv is important to her as it's her time to decompress. Sit down and relax. If she's been on the go all day she might not have the mental or physical capacity to be intimate until she's had that time.
I imagine that if you upped how much housework and childcare you do you'd find she might have more energy for sex.
For example could you take the kids out when you get back from work and she could watch tv then? Then it's not as late when you get the kids to bed? Could you do more housework while she's dealing with the kids so she doesn't have to do it when they are in bed? Could you run her a bath and give her some me time?