How to cope with an almost sexless marriage? Can counselling really help?

[LosingIt2022]

Hoping this is the most appropriate subforum.
I'm looking for some advice because the lack of sex life is putting a huge strain on our relationship.
I want to propose some form of couples therapy / counselling because this is the only way I can think of to make her understand how important this is to me; I do not expect miracles but I do not want to leave any stones unturned.
If nothing changes, I would at least like to understand if there are some coping strategies to help me not lose my sanity - I am banging my head against the wall while dying inside and she doesn't seem to take notice.

What are your experiences?
Is there really a solution for couples whose sex drives change so much over time?

The story:

I'm male, my wife and I are both mid 30s, we have 2 kids.

I have always had a higher sex drive but, while mine has remained constant, hers has been constantly plummeting.

It used to be about once a week, I imagined it would have become less frequent, but I never imagined once every 2-3 months.

When it happens, she gets really lost in the moment, which is amazing, but it has simply moved at the very bottom of her priority list: it will only happen if she's not too tired, if she has already finished her favourite TV series, if that night her best friend doesn't call her to rant about her new life as a divorcee, etc etc.

Any attempt at experimenting has been shot down mercilessly: new lingerie makes her feel under pressure, toys are not her thing.

I have tried to plan and set some time for ourselves in advance, but she says this makes her feel too much pressure.

Any attempt at communicating is very hard because she just does not want to talk about these things; she was brought up in a very conservative, not religious but Jane-Austen-like environment.

I asked if she would ever be willing to, well, tease me; there are times when she wants to cuddle and nothing more, is that really that different? Apparently for her yes, she was horrified at the idea.

I got really, really cross because a couple of weeks ago she told me in the morning that she would have actually wanted me but I was in the loft, working. Why didn't you call me? So I should just wait in bed for you to finish your TV series, on the off chance that once in a blue moon you might actually want me, but there can be no communication or planning?

I have lost count of the number of times I told her how I feel rejected and unimportant, and how I feel less important than a stupid TV series. It just doesn't register, it's as if I were speaking a different language.

There are lots of other things in the relationship which work really well, and they are a huge reason why I fancy her so much, but this remains a big problem.
I often wonder: had I known it would have ended up like this, would I have married this person and had 2 kids?

@TimeOf76 @KinkyMom I have a similar experience: my wife has always been reluctant to discuss anything related to sex, not just with me but with anyone (previous partners, sisters, friends - she said as much multiple times).
It took years for her to tell me that she actually preferred x to y, etc - my questions on the topic, especially on if there is anything I can do to make her feel more at ease, have always mostly gone unanswered. It's not religion per se, I think more to do with a strict, conservative upbringing (in which religion may well have played a part).

The one thing she has occasionally told me is that I do manage to make her feel appreciated and desired (not just sexually). But I don't know whether / how much to still believe that, because her behaviour suggests otherwise.

And we go back to communication... I see your point, @TimeOf76 , that I may come across as obsessed about sex, but this is really also about communication.

If she told me "I don't think I will want you as often as before, but I still love you and want you as my partner, can you live with that?" it would be one thing. I am not sure I could live with that, I'd like to think yes, I would want to say yes. At least it would be a starting point; the sexual frustration would remain, but at least we could try to understand, together, if there are other (non-sexual) ways I can feel more appreciated and I can feel less rejection. Maybe the relationship will survive, maybe it won't, but at least it would be a starting point.

If she told me she's pissed off at me for x y and z I would at least know where the problem is; it might not be fixable, but at least I'd know where to start.

Or, of course, she could also tell me she hates my guts / doesn't want me any more / it's all my fault because of this and that, etc, but at least there would be more clarity.

Like I said multiple times, no one is entitled to sex but everyone should be entitled to honest communication.

The lack of sex is incredibly frustrating, to an extent I don't think those who haven't experienced it can truly appreciate.
But the lack of communication is also doing my head in.

@Thisistyresome @TimeOf76 I appreciate the suggestions and there is a lot of validity in what you say. I suppose I am just exhausted from trying all kinds of stuff without much communication. I don't think I want to keep second guessing myself: shall I try this or that? Maybe she doesn't like x so I'll try y, or maybe I'll change a into b, or I'll give her more of c or whatever. Or valid suggestions in their own merit, but I am honestly exhausted, I feel like I am driving blindfolded and I keep hitting brick walls wherever I go. I don't want to try another direction, I want some communication from here and where the ### she wants me to go. The answer may well be out of her life, but at least it would be some clarity, and I'd like to think I deserve that.

Also have you finished having your family?
If so, then have you had a vasectomy?
That way your wife can go off birth control.
(Not that birth control ever effected my libido but many think it does).

@Thisistyresome I'd be reluctant to move to another room as it would add even more distance between us. We both like being able to talk openly between us at night, before falling asleep, when the kids are asleep - sometimes about serious, important stuff, some other times about frivolous stuff, but we like it. Giving that up would be like signalling that even the non-sexual aspects of our relationship have stopped working.

@Crikeyalmighty May I ask if you have managed to discuss it with your partners? Were you able to identify a cause? Something, anything your partner could have done to reverse or limit the fact that you tend to go off sex after a while? Do you go off sex or do you just not want your partner any more after a few years? If you still want him, have you found a way to show that to him, is that enough for him?
I don't mean to pester you, and of course feel free to tell me to get lost if you'd rather not answer :) I'd just like to understand what I can learn from people in similar situations.

@Unhappy53 I'm very sorry about your situation. The way I see it (everyone is different) I would only leave if the situation became absolutely unbereable and I became convinced that nothing could improve it. And, with 2 kids around, the threshold to leave is much higher, because we can still provide a loving family environment even if I am not getting any (if we were fighting and shouting all the time it would be different). I would not leave thinking that a snap of the finger will get me in an ideal relationship where every box is ticked. I have been in relationships where the sex was better but everything else was not, and I do not want to go back to that.

Ooh good call on the vasectomy. Any kind of hormonal BC, no matter how low does, kills my libido dead! Bloody hormones!

@NovelFarmer @MakeTheOwStop She's not on the pill. We use condoms, and neither of us minds (or, if she has changed her mind recently, she hasn't said).
I would be open to considering a vasectomy if it could help, but to be honest it seems unlikely.

Hell, I even said I am open to considering taking medication to reduce my libido (only with medical guidance, obviously). I often think that if I had lower/no sex drive I'd be one of the happiest persons on Earth, since so many other things work well (but, even if we both had the same drive, we would still need better communication between us, I am fully aware of that).

Google “effect of semen on women’s body”.
I would have thought sex would be better without a condom?

did you read /listen to Mating in Captivity yet?

I have started reading Come As You Are

Cool. I haven't read that. What's it like?
There are summaries online of Matin in Captivity, you could take a look and see if it looks helpful.
It's worth doing even if really it's better if you both read it.

Come as You Are seems very interesting.

Form the summaries of mating in captivity, it seems a big point is to prioritise / plan sex. I had tried suggesting that and it was a colossal failure. She says it kills the spontaneity and it makes her feel under too much pressure. But she has not suggested anything else.

i kinda feel your wife, i m in the same boat ( with the comunication also, we often feel intimidated and if it was a big taboo growing up.. guess what... its a big taboo now too ,even tho you think you are not judgemental we feel judged even for the smallest pleasure we have.. if it happens to be good and after you make a comment .. "see... you like it too why don't u want it more often", you just errased all the pleasure and fun...,)
you say when it happens, she knows and remembers exactly what you like, but she has to ask(sorry but its never the same thing when a woman or a man even has to ask after years of relationship) instead of becoming a partner in the sexual act.. she has to use you as a toy.... command you to give herself the pleasure, so see.. your not giving her the pleasure..
i would recommend... a few days of just flirt, right just flirt, be nice to her, offer to help her in small things smile at her, never mention sex, cuddle her and just be there
i m also with the tvshow.. and guess what i was watching... THE ROMACE, the love story the way the men looked at their woman, even if it was a scifi movie... i always followed the love ( and by the way if her getting the pleasure starts to become alot of work.. she will stop trying as she works enought already, sex and pelasure shouldn't be about working for it!)
there's alot to say about this...

I wrote a very well thought out post and it got deleted. Useless phone. But I will try to summarize.

Can't your wife see that you are bending over backwards for her?

Many people have to schedule sex although they probably don't refer to it as doing that, rather they plan a romantic evening in and the rest follows...I've had to do it before, couldn't care less. I look forward to spening intimate time with my significant other planned or not. There are times when I am happy just talking but my SO wants to do it. I never reject him and end up getting into it anyway.

I hope this doesn't make you feel worse it's just selfishness/thoughtlessness really bothers me and this is how your wife is coming across lol (unless you have done something to upset her which is not coming across).

This thread prompted me to have another conversation with my DH about our situation. I made it pretty clear that it could be the end of us. Lo and behold, the next morning he initiated. Usually I would not accept if he tries this after we've had a conversation about it, as it feels like me coercing him, however, it's been so long since we did anything, I went along with it. Afterwards, I fell asleep and he woke me up for a round 2. This indicates to me that he does like it, but just forgets how much until he is reminded. Not a solution for Op, but it's so weird isn't it? He has said that his New Years resolution is to fix this, so here's hoping. I wonder whether it would be worth Op sitting his wife down, and saying "If you won't talk to me about this, we are over"

That’s great news, well done. I hope things keep getting better and better for you. Sometimes the more you have, the more you want. Sounds like things are going to get much better for you! Yay.

Good advice too for the OP about ultimatum, though perhaps risky when small kids involved and she calls his bluff.

Thank you so much. Yes, I guess it could backfire, sadly.

I’m sorry to say it OP, but you come across as being very pompous. That’s a turn off in itself.

E.g. it took her months to finally tell me that any attempt at planning made her feel under pressure. I find this (that it took her so long to tell me) unacceptable, a huge lack of respect.

I can be like this and it's nothing to do with lack of respect. It's lack of assertiveness/not being comfortable with potential confrontation. A person like this can't easily help being like it.

If you go on and on about it that's really unpleasant to be on the receiving end of. If planning makes her feel pressurized then you constantly going on about it definitely will.

@lonelyblonde, that's great news - happy for you!
But it's also quite puzzling: I mean, if he liked it, why not initiate before? And if he wasn't bothered either way, why not do it more since it's so important to you? And if he didn't like it before, why does he seem to like it now?
You mentioned ED - could it be performance anxiety? Maybe your kind of ultimatum meant the fear of losing you overcame the anxiety?

As for me, yes, I must and will demand better communication. If we didn't have kids I'd consider an ultimatum, but with kids no.

@GrammarTool Any constructive suggestions on how to try to address a problem with a partner who won't talk about it?

@Oldfan then what should I do? If I bring it up I pressure her, if I don't bring it up she'll just carrying on pretending it's nothing - well, it's not nothing, it's doing my head in...

@Ineedtosleep79 Thanks for the kind words! I'd like to think it's not deliberate selfishness from her, maybe more shyness or some kind of mental block from her rigid upbringing. But the final result is the same, sadly.

@Alexya No, I think I didn't explain myself well. It's not that she has to ask because I don't remember. Some days she wants x, some other days she wants y. She's always been like that, even when we were in our 20s. So she tells me which of the things I know she likes she actually wants in that moment, because, you know, I can't mindread! I have never minded to be honest.

"i would recommend... a few days of just flirt, right just flirt, be nice to her, offer to help her in small things smile at her, never mention sex, cuddle her and just be there"
And if that doesn't help, then what?
All these suggestions are helpful, but the need for more honest conversation remains.

This podcast may help a little:

podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sex-in-long-term-relationships-with-dr-karen-gurney/id1598538518?i=1000560959162

I have an idea.....maybe. Make a resolute decision to do...absolutely nothing....for the next 3-4 months.. and see what happens.

Then if she doesn't initiate anything, at least you can cross her being pressured off the list. It would be interesting to see if anything changed.

Would we tell a woman in a mostly sexless marriage not to raise the topic of sex for 3-4 months ? I think not.

We don't tell women in very low sex marriages that it's their fault- why are we more or less saying it's the man's fault when it's reversed ?

@Ineedtosleep79 I think I sort of see your point. BUT I have two main issues with it:

1. It might be seen as normalising and accepting the lack of communication, which is a problem which must be addressed, not enabled and allowed to continue

2. You cannot 'normalise' for all the other factors. Maybe in two months she doesn't initiate because she's going through a lot at work. Or maybe she does initiate because she has less on her mind but won't initiate when her boss treats her like garbage or her sister is going through a divorce or whatever. How is the partner to know?

@LosingIt2022
“I'd be reluctant to move to another room as it would add even more distance between us. […] Giving that up would be like signalling that even the non-sexual aspects of our relationship have stopped working.”

As I said it may end up being appoint of no return, which I appreciate you are desperate to avoid. However, ask yourself are you already there? She knows there is a problem but has no interest in taking action to address it.

Perhaps you are not quite ready for this yet, but as it is doing your head in I would suggest you need to have planned an exit in a way that would minimise the adverse impact on your kids. Having exit plans will allow you to consider the costs and benefits with a more complete picture. Often people think differently if they don’t see the options available, it can make you feel like you are in a corner and make you react differently. Also, even though both parents together is best for kids how separations happen and the post separation situation matters massively. Try planning out how protecting the kids would work, if this just drags on you could still end up with a really disruptive separation which is the worst outcome for the kids.

Regarding your consideration of anaphrodisiacs, that is unlikely to be a good idea messing with your system in that way is likely to have more impacts than just sex drive and if you don’t bounce back properly if you discover exit is the best option for you, you will regret that choice.

1. It is unacceptable but you know that. You could try and suck it up and be the bigger person for a few weeks on the off-chance that something that might change. She is already aware of how you feel anyway.

1. How can there always be something going on though? Personally I find that being intimate helps me through stressful events.

Your wife reminds me of my ex although he was much worse, I would have been happy with every 2-3 months at the time 😂