How to cope with an almost sexless marriage? Can counselling really help?

[LosingIt2022]

Hoping this is the most appropriate subforum.
I'm looking for some advice because the lack of sex life is putting a huge strain on our relationship.
I want to propose some form of couples therapy / counselling because this is the only way I can think of to make her understand how important this is to me; I do not expect miracles but I do not want to leave any stones unturned.
If nothing changes, I would at least like to understand if there are some coping strategies to help me not lose my sanity - I am banging my head against the wall while dying inside and she doesn't seem to take notice.

What are your experiences?
Is there really a solution for couples whose sex drives change so much over time?

The story:

I'm male, my wife and I are both mid 30s, we have 2 kids.

I have always had a higher sex drive but, while mine has remained constant, hers has been constantly plummeting.

It used to be about once a week, I imagined it would have become less frequent, but I never imagined once every 2-3 months.

When it happens, she gets really lost in the moment, which is amazing, but it has simply moved at the very bottom of her priority list: it will only happen if she's not too tired, if she has already finished her favourite TV series, if that night her best friend doesn't call her to rant about her new life as a divorcee, etc etc.

Any attempt at experimenting has been shot down mercilessly: new lingerie makes her feel under pressure, toys are not her thing.

I have tried to plan and set some time for ourselves in advance, but she says this makes her feel too much pressure.

Any attempt at communicating is very hard because she just does not want to talk about these things; she was brought up in a very conservative, not religious but Jane-Austen-like environment.

I asked if she would ever be willing to, well, tease me; there are times when she wants to cuddle and nothing more, is that really that different? Apparently for her yes, she was horrified at the idea.

I got really, really cross because a couple of weeks ago she told me in the morning that she would have actually wanted me but I was in the loft, working. Why didn't you call me? So I should just wait in bed for you to finish your TV series, on the off chance that once in a blue moon you might actually want me, but there can be no communication or planning?

I have lost count of the number of times I told her how I feel rejected and unimportant, and how I feel less important than a stupid TV series. It just doesn't register, it's as if I were speaking a different language.

There are lots of other things in the relationship which work really well, and they are a huge reason why I fancy her so much, but this remains a big problem.
I often wonder: had I known it would have ended up like this, would I have married this person and had 2 kids?

Are there emotional needs of hers that you are not meeting OP?
In my experience women often withdraw from sexual intimacy when this is the case

There are often threads from women with husbands that have gone off sex, I was one of those, after 10 yrs of not even having a cuddle I gave up and left, I tried counseling but he didn’t turn up. She seems to realise this is a problem to you but is more interested in a TV programme than you, usually there isnt any lasting change as I found, so either you accept it or end the relationship.

All your posts come across like you think she is in the wrong and you are taking no accountability for the issue. She is not able to speak openly with you about how she is feeling. Why is that?

I found your posts extremely triggering - they reminded me of the same issue I had with my abusive ex and your behaviour is exactly the same. You think you are saying the right things on this post but you aren't.

I think you are catrastrophising a bit. You say that you are the lowest priority, but what you mean is that sex is the lowest priority and sex is important to you. I think you need to separate it out in your mind a bit.

It is clear that sex makes your wife feel unsafe. Or the 'threat' of sex makes her feel unsafe. It may feel to your wife that every nice thing you do for her is to get you sex. She may have a zero tolerance policy for that.

She can only reasonably have sex when she wants to. If you wanting sex is constantly on her mind, she will have no idea when that is. - All the above u have experienced in my marriage, particularly when the kids were younger. Your youngest is still young, my sex drive has improved as they've got older.

Sex can be dangerous for women in a way that men don't have to worry about. Being penetrated in the first place, pregnancy, miscarriage, abortion, birth...

The point is communication. You can't make her want it more just as you can't be made to want it less.

But if you genuinely feel you are pulling your weight in all parts of life then you need to let her know that you are not ready to have a relationship with no intimacy- your are both young. This is about filling both your needs and reconnecting.

She needs to understand this is about you and her, as a couple. Not the kids, the house, the jobs. It's about you two, and staying connected in your marriage together for the long haul.

One night away actually never works for me. I always need two, the first unwind and relax and the second a full day out and about, shmoozing, eating, talking etc then we have connected.

You posts tend to talk about 'sex' which is very much how men see it. I would hate 'planned sex'. She might too.

"Feminazi". Ooh I think your "I'm one of the good guys" mask slipped there, OP. Also sexy lingerie? Nope. That's something that reminds her You Want Sex and she's failing you.

Pressures of therapy and books aren't going to help, you can't force her to sexually desire you. Either she doesn't fancy you or you are just expecting sex without making her feel wanted, a lot of men just expect it at night without any compliments or appreciation through the day which is difficult to feel in the mood when she's been looking after children, working etc.

I think you are justifiably angry and hurt - you can't help but get resentful when she attributes no thought to your wellbeing. The fact that you are considering doing just about anything to fix this does say to me that you are trying your best to save your marriage. Her doing more housework is NOT a reason to not want sex - utter bullshit! Lack of intimacy and communication on her side is something you are not responsible for. She has to meet you halfway on this really. I personally left my EXDH because we became flatmates and our sex life was non existent for years. Much much happier now! Please don't let people tell you that you are wrong for wanting sex - especially when you are so open to saving the situation.

This. Physical or emotional needs. The way OP speaks its telling.

Myself and DP have had issues in the past and after a long day at work, being hassled by the kids, having to pick up skiddied pants and basically run around after an overgrown man child, the last thing I wanted was to shag a man with the same emotional intelligence as the toddler I’ve been looking after all day. The fact you wait for her in bed like a preying mantis makes my stomach churn. I’d be finding new tv shows to watch too I think.

Ultimately communication is going to be the only thing that solves this but you need to listen to her as well.

This.

Couples therapy as a start.
You can talk through what's bothering you and she can do the same. You can both express what you need. Sometimes we have to take a step back, breathe, try not to finger point and view the person frustrating us with compassion.

Having children and busy lives isn't for the faint hearted. It feels like a battle. I'm mid thirties and husband and I can be every day during holidays or once a month if we are lucky during busy term time weeks (sometimes less than that). I get more tired than he does but we talk about it.

Communication is so important and counselling will help to give you both the opportunity to talk and listen.

I hope you get back on track. If you don't get anywhere with it at least you gave it a shot. At that point you would be better off moving on.

@Yobeaches, I don't begrudge her for telling me that the thought of planned sex makes her feel under pressure. I begrudge her for taking months and months for telling me. I can't read her mind, what am I to do if she doesn't want to tell me what makes her feel bad and what doesn't?

She can talk openly about feelings but struggles to talk openly about sex, not just with me but with her friends and siblings and mother, too, she has admitted as much. I think it's to do with her ultra-conservative (not religious) upbringing. If it were me making her feel uneasy, she'd be able to talk about it with others. She's not.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe there's something else at play, but that's precisely why I want to go down the therapy route.

Of course I get it that TV is her 'me time' etc etc. Of course I find it totally normal that there are times when she wants to wind down with me time etc. But, again, it's not like I expect her to jump my bones every day, it's that if she prioritises TV for 3 months and we never do it for 3 months or longer, then I think I can be forgiven for concluding I am at the very bottom of her priority list.

Thank you all for the suggestions and replies.

I think this may have gone a bit off topic, though.

I am really not interested in the blame game and if some of you think it's all my fault, whatever, think what you want.
@sleepytimebear, I remind you of your abusive ex, really? I'd ask you what you think the proper way to deal with this would be, but I'm afraid it would be a waste of time.

I am more interested in understanding two things:

1. How best to convey that my desire to try therapy is not because I want to pressure her, but because I care deeply about the relationship and I don't want to leave any stone unturned?

2. What can one really expect from therapy? I mean, if we try all that's to be tried and not much changes, what then? Is there any specific coping strategy that can be recommended in this case? To be clear, since someone brought it up, I really don't want to leave, nor do I want to consider open arrangements, let alone cheating.

As someone who was the woman in a similar situation, I can recommend my therapist. I had solo therapy (online) and it helped a lot. If you want her contact details send me a private message.

However, it was me who wanted to change - I could see how damaging the situation was to my marriage. I had faced the real possibility of divorce and knew that I didn’t want that. If your wife would rather split up than change you may need to face the possibility of that.

"The fact you wait for her in bed like a preying mantis makes my stomach churn."
Your text comprehension skills must be very lacking if you understood something which I had never written. Your anger has nothing to do with me, redirect it elsewhere and don't waste any more of my time. Goodbye.

Also @LosingIt2022 , all the admin jobs you mentioned that you do are each once a year or less frequently. I would reexamine the mental load. You can only change yourself, there is no point in trying to make her change. Make some changes yourself and see what changes for your wife.

I'm sure she is telling you about what her needs are. I think that you may be discounting them, as you don't connect them to improving your sex life.

She was trying to tell you something in the example you gave about coming down from the loft. Could she have been referring back to a conversation earlier in the day that you dismissed?

Was with you and on your side until you said ‘feminazi’ - don’t be that guy, please.

Counselling sounds like an excellent idea for both of you. I’d actively pursue that and tell her it’s extremely important for your marriage. She might need her own individual counselling too if she finds the communication difficult.

Which way is the contempt flowing? It's oozing out of the OPs posts.

Also why do men always think experimenting with toys and dressing up is the answer? It's weird.

Personally if you're not laughing with your partner, you're not shagging either. So of course, the automatic go to when you're not getting enough is a row. Makes sense

I really feel for you OP, but I think your situation is not unusual when couples are working and have small kids and therefore endless demands on their physical and mental resources. And the dynamic you describe is probably pretty common - I certainly recognise it from a particular period in my own marriage.

You do sound angry, which is understandable but unhelpful. You’re conflating your wife’s lack of sex drive with a rejection of you as a person (also not helpful). She’s not prioritising shit telly over you, she’s simply prioritising her need for downtime and mental headspace over your need for sex.

IME this can become a vicious circle - you make yet another effort to initiate, but inside you’re already mentally primed for a knock back and therefore a row, which in your head is justified because you feel so hurt and frustrated. Meanwhile, she’s utterly fucking exhausted, her libido has flatlined and all she wants is to have a bit of R&R without having to deal with yet another person’s needs and wants. Having sex (with anyone - seriously, Brad Pitt would have no better chance than you) has become just another knackering job of work no different to anything else on her to do list.

So the whole thing becomes freighted with emotion and anger because neither of you are feeling seen or getting your needs met.

When she senses you hovering on the periphery with yet another incoming advance, she’s already twitching and not even enjoying the shit telly she’s watching because she knows what’s next - whether that’s having to make a big effort to engage sexually, or do the whole avoidance/guilt/resentment routine - so these interactions with you become ever more exhausting for her and frustrating for you. And they undermine genuine affection and intimacy, because even cuddling or kissing becomes ‘loaded’ for both parties - you wanting more, her feeling angry that even a cuddle is now a prelude to sex -so any simple physical touch becomes weaponised and is eventually avoided.

To have any chance of moving beyond this, you need to get out of the mental loop you’re in at the moment, i.e. you’re the one making the effort, you’re the one feeling butt hurt at her pushing you away, she’s the one with the problem, she’s shutting you out. Your wife is not responsible for creating the situation; the situation is one you’re in as a couple, and it’s a result of your current life stage and circumstances.

Couples counselling would probably help (if you get the right practitioner, there’s a lot of shockingly bad therapists out there), but so might talking to her honestly. Take sex off the table completely and talk to her about how she feels. Depersonalise it - allow her to express antipathy towards sex without making it all about your feelings of rejection. Try to take the heat and the hurt out of it for both of you. Face the sex issue like a team overcoming an obstacle together, not adversaries on opposite sides of an argument. If you love one another you’ll be fine - and remember that this stage of your life, like most others, is temporary and will pass.

Ya need to get rid of that tv man!

Could try a date night? Take her out somewhere for a meal, may remind her of dating you when you were both younger, and put her in the mood.

@Velvian No, I don't only do stuff which is once a year. Paying the nanny and cleaner, submitting their pay slips, sorting out their taxes etc is once a week. Going to do the shopping because my job is more flexible than hers is at least once a week. Arranging my work so that she has 5-7 nights a month to herself, Etc.

I am not saying I am perfect. I can certainly do more. Everyone can. But if you think that me doing more chores would magically fix everything, no, it's much more complicated than that.

Again, the same happens when we are at an all-inclusive resort, when we leave the kids with my sister and go off on a weekend on our own, etc etc.

And for those saying she hates sex or doesn't feel safe etc, when it happens it is truly amazing, she does get lost in it, she's very clear about what she wants from me etc, it is not passive or pity sex or duty sex etc. But it happens once in a blue moon.

I think you should have the kids stay at friends for a weekend, hire a stripper pole, oil yourself up in a nice pair of budgie smugglers and perform the sexiest magic Mike dance that you can do. I think this would reset everything in her brain and the pressure would be removed and the fun would return. My DH would definitely receive after this and he hasn't had it for months😁Honestly the image of this would delight her for months and I am not joking.

The answer to 1. is something like

’I love you so much, and I’m scared the issues we have with sex and communicating about it are getting in the way of us having a happy life together. I would like us to go to counselling to see if I can learn how to communicate better and we can both learn more about the other person’s needs with the help of a trained therapist. I know this will sound scary and I know your first reaction might be no way, but it’s so important to me that we give it a go. Please will you think about it?’

The answer to 2. is to not cross any bridges until you come to them. Don’t project yourself into that future, be more positive.

@gamerchick "Also why do men always think experimenting with toys and dressing up is the answer? It's weird."

I can't speak for others but I don't always think that. I didn't know what to think because she doesn't want to bloody talk about it. It's not that that was my first thought, it's that, in the absence of a clear dialogue, I didn't know what to think, so I tried all sorts, including this. Don't want me to try something? Want me to try something else? Then bloody talk about it. Mindreading is not my thing.

Therapy might help but I wouldn’t go there with the intention of ‘making her realise she has to have sex with you more often’.
You might find that she will give you a real reality check on what her life is and how little you do in the house with two dcs. The fact she is telling you she is constantly tired should be a warning sign to you that she is doing too much. And you don’t of you aren’t feeling that tiredness.