How to cope with an almost sexless marriage? Can counselling really help?

[LosingIt2022]

Hoping this is the most appropriate subforum.
I'm looking for some advice because the lack of sex life is putting a huge strain on our relationship.
I want to propose some form of couples therapy / counselling because this is the only way I can think of to make her understand how important this is to me; I do not expect miracles but I do not want to leave any stones unturned.
If nothing changes, I would at least like to understand if there are some coping strategies to help me not lose my sanity - I am banging my head against the wall while dying inside and she doesn't seem to take notice.

What are your experiences?
Is there really a solution for couples whose sex drives change so much over time?

The story:

I'm male, my wife and I are both mid 30s, we have 2 kids.

I have always had a higher sex drive but, while mine has remained constant, hers has been constantly plummeting.

It used to be about once a week, I imagined it would have become less frequent, but I never imagined once every 2-3 months.

When it happens, she gets really lost in the moment, which is amazing, but it has simply moved at the very bottom of her priority list: it will only happen if she's not too tired, if she has already finished her favourite TV series, if that night her best friend doesn't call her to rant about her new life as a divorcee, etc etc.

Any attempt at experimenting has been shot down mercilessly: new lingerie makes her feel under pressure, toys are not her thing.

I have tried to plan and set some time for ourselves in advance, but she says this makes her feel too much pressure.

Any attempt at communicating is very hard because she just does not want to talk about these things; she was brought up in a very conservative, not religious but Jane-Austen-like environment.

I asked if she would ever be willing to, well, tease me; there are times when she wants to cuddle and nothing more, is that really that different? Apparently for her yes, she was horrified at the idea.

I got really, really cross because a couple of weeks ago she told me in the morning that she would have actually wanted me but I was in the loft, working. Why didn't you call me? So I should just wait in bed for you to finish your TV series, on the off chance that once in a blue moon you might actually want me, but there can be no communication or planning?

I have lost count of the number of times I told her how I feel rejected and unimportant, and how I feel less important than a stupid TV series. It just doesn't register, it's as if I were speaking a different language.

There are lots of other things in the relationship which work really well, and they are a huge reason why I fancy her so much, but this remains a big problem.
I often wonder: had I known it would have ended up like this, would I have married this person and had 2 kids?

Write her a letter and tell her how miserable you are.
Hopefully this will start a meaningful conversation.

My good friend experienced the same but the other way around. He was very absorbed with work and she missed the intimacy...as she said, she is his wife not just a friend and she needed the intimacy of sex to feel,that connection.

In the end she left. He was devastated etc.. etc ..etc..but she wasn't prepared to try again as she felt he would just be making an effort and didn't really desire her and want to take her to bed. She is still adamant it was the right decision and hasn't looked back. In hindsight, it highlighted other problems that they just put up with

You sound so angry and what comes across in your posts is that this is about you and your pleasure (sexy lingerie!?). Of course the two of you should be able to speak about this but she needs to feel safe in doing so and that you won't blame her/ judge her - your posts sound full of anger and blame that she isnt behaving how you want her to. It is not her responsibility to service you. If you want to work through this you need to do it together and counselling would be a very good idea but you need to accept this is not a "her" problem to fix, this is an issue you have as a couple.

I think you need to find a way to burn off some of your anger - probably a catch 22, she has a low sex drive but your anger about it probably makes her feel even less sexy. Is she depressed? Doesn't sound like there's any fun for her in the lifestyle you described either.

Would it help to reframe her prioritisation of tv over sex as her doing something she wants to do rather than prioritising your needs? So, not that tv is more important but that her own needs trump yours?

How much autonomy does she actually have? Is she the main carer for your children? If so, her day consists of putting herself last to their needs.

Unlike a 9-5 job, parenting is 24/7. You say that she was still not keen on sex while away from kids but, as she does not prioritise sex, all that's happened is it's now your needs trumping hers, she still has no autonomy.

The planning makes sex another job for her to do. Talking about it puts pressure on her to find a solution to your need for sex. Pressure is a form of coercion.

You feel that her not needing sex is a rejection of you but it may simply be that she has no desire for sex so does not seek it. It's common for sex drives to dip while children are young and then during menopause and peri-menopause so if you want to keep the marriage perhaps you need to consider adjusting your expectations to something more realistic.

It can become a vicious circle, if every hug or touch turns into pestering for sex then eventually affection is withdrawn because it's easier than continuing the coercion/rejection cycle.

A good place to start is to stop thinking about what you need and start thinking about what your wife needs. When her needs are met you may well find that equilibrium.

For all I know you look like Brad Pitt but I'm turned off.
You both work full-time, she does the majority of housework and childcare, you "help" with chores and kids and take the mental load of things that need doing once in a blue moon like broadband and booking holidays, and you think coming home in time for dinner then putting the kids to bed (presumably while she cooks and washes and cleans) is something special, not just what parents do.
Couples counselling could help but I think you need to talk about the big picture of your relationship and division of labour, and you need to listen to what she has to say.

I feel for you but also suspect my husband feels the same about me. I am absolutely exhausted (5yo and 2yo, house renovations? Work issues) and in this state my body literally has zero desire. I also feel very far from myself. The only time I've felt physically connected and had any drive recently was when I was away with friends for a night (this has happened once since the 2.5yo was born).
When we talk about mental load it's not really the financial admin, but the rest that maybe you don't immediately see - clothes that need sorting, food shops, planning what everyone is eating that day, pick ups and drop offs, medication, medical appts, haircuts, play dates, school or nursery admin, organising childcare, checking in with relatives.
Each task is very small but it adds up to a huge overwhelming headfuck that can actually destroy your sense of identity and kill any remaining libido.
I struggle to get my OH to understand the mental load. This sounds morbid but I genuinely wonder what would happen to the kids if I died - it would take him ages to realise all the silent (and not so silent) things I'd been doing.

@YoBeaches

1. no he didn't say that
2. if he had, why would it be any of your business? Natural term weaning age is between 3.5 and 7 years and the only people who get to decide on when it right to wean would be mother and child, with discussion the other parent. OP did not ask for advice on this.

I agree with PP you do come across as angry (massive turnoff) and you talk about her and her interests very disparagingly.

This is a big and important point

" It can become a vicious circle, if every hug or touch turns into pestering for sex then eventually affection is withdrawn because it's easier than continuing the coercion/rejection cycle"

If the waiting party immediately responds wrongly to a hug then that has to stop to avoid misleading the other. It's horrible to get to that point.

The mental load point though is the key here. She might be "useless" at some admin stuff but that's likely due to the volume of stuff to keep track of in her head.

I wonder what she considers you useless at! ?

I suspect your wife is like some of the posters on here and sees your desire for sexual intimacy as a selfish need of yours and something else that they have to do, like a chore.

The reality is that, whether we like it or not, sexual intimacy is a key way many men feel loved and wanted in a relationship. If you aren't going to prioritise at least some sexual intimacy for such men then they are going to feel rejected and unloved. We can have all the usual arguments about consent and bodily autonomy till the cows come home, but it won't change that reality I'm afraid.

I'll be honest I got into a stage like this with my partner, we ended up in counselling and it was only through that that he was able to communicate to me how miserable the situation was making him and how hurt he was. Counselling really did help us as I'm not sure I would have listened to him properly or him find the right words to convey the pain he was feeling. I suspect the relationship would have ended otherwise. We worked on our communication, on spending good non-sexual time together and yes, on just doing it more regularly!

So my advice is to get the counselling and focus on the emotional impact and emotional intimacy not talk about needing sex. In the meantime try and find ways to spend quality time with your wife in non-sexual situations, show interest in her as a person, might help.

@YukoandHiro 1. Yes he did actually "the kids are 9 and 5" but he references a toddler also.

1. I have no desire to engage in weaning preferences outside of the context of OPs post. Fuck off with your pre-judged post.

Unlike a 9-5 job, parenting is 24/7. You say that she was still not keen on sex while away from kids but, as she does not prioritise sex, all that's happened is it's now your needs trumping hers, she still has no autonomy.

God, I hate it when we go away and sex is expected, or DD somewhere else. And this is exactly how I feel but did not understand it until I read this.

It can become a vicious circle, if every hug or touch turns into pestering for sex then eventually affection is withdrawn because it's easier than continuing the coercion/rejection cycle.

This is true too. Do you ask for a hug but mean sex? Is she safe to kiss and hug you without you turning it into something else?

I can relate to this too. I was the one who held everything together and sailed the ship. I think, subconsciously, I became lost too and felt that ‘this was my life’ and, eventually, my happiness dwindled.

There's a difference between anger and frustration and many in here are confusing the two. For all those in sexless marriages (me too!), watching it go down from say daily or weekly to monthly (if you're lucky) is REALLY hard... and you are always treading that line between trying to discuss and find out why, to that pressure that you'll consciously or unconsciously put on the partner, all the way to being frustrated (what is perceived above as angry)...

I do agree with some of the posters above though. Do more housework... get a list from her what she planned on doing that day (if you're like me, it 'should' be obvious, but it not always is!), do it all, that way her only distraction is that half hour TV show and she has no reason to be tired. It might still not happen, but at least you've removed the obstacles.

I think contempt is a pretty big flag that your relationship is not in a good place. If you are feeling contemptuous of you partners needs or wants I think you are in trouble.

This doesn't mean just ignoring your own needs and wants or allowing boundaries to be violated by the way, but I think it is hard to demonstrate to someone that you actively love them when you are showing contempt for them.

Likewise with stonewalling.

This!

Do not stay with her if nothing changes. You will regret it further down the line when you get into your 50’s.

Oh i see a man has showed up with some fantastic advice. Don't share the load by working out for yourself what needs doing around the house, get her to make you a list of chores! Very sexy.

Have a look at thatdarnchat on Instagram and reevaluate how much you are bringing to the table household labour wise. My DH deals with the insurance (annual event) and holidays etc but would certainly not claim that the labour is 50/50.

For example the shopping, I have to know what is happening the upcoming week, write a plan of what we are having, them stock check of what we have, then write a list of what we need, then go to the shop, put everything away while clearing out anything old, then balance what we are having with dates on food and make sure that every night we have enough dinner for that night. If you take over one aspect of that task (ie making dinner one night) you are not taking over the full mental load of that task which is multiple hours work a week.

I would recommend you access counselling to allow her a safe space to voice her reasons behind her low libido. Can say there is nothing that makes me feel that my time is more valued and respected than my DH noticing a task needs done and completing it without involving me...me asking him 'can you take the bins out?' and him doing it is not the same thing.

The fact that you mentioned she is asking for cuddles with out sex suggests she feels intimacy is lacking. The pressure to perform is a big issue (same as it would be with men). My DH and I never have much issue at home but we went away for an anniversary to a hotel on our own and the sex was terrible.

Happy to be wrong about the situation though, I do have a friend going through the menopause who's DH is incredibly hands on but she just has zero libido and is trying HRT to try and change things.

I agree you come across angry and focused on your needs which makes me understand a little why your wife has withdrawn.
To me your wife sounds a bit anxious possibly? Sex has become anxiety producing (more so the initiation rather than the act). Look up demand avoidance. The TV is a way of meeting her needs - she needs time for her brain to turn off and relax and a way of putting off a further demand - you. It may not be a choice if it's anxiety driving it, she may not understand it. You need to try and empathise and not see her actions as choices and slights if this is the case.

I feel for you OP because my DH is in a similar boat. And it's not his fault but the absolute honest answer is I cannot be bothered. At the end of the day more often than not I just want my pjs Netflix and chill - but really. Not because I don't love or want my husband, but because I've had a needy 3 year old to get to bed since I picked him up after a full days work and by the time we get to bed it's usually gone 11 and I am TIRED! I can't make myself horny and I don't really want to. I just want that one moment I can RELAX without going through the motions of another person clinging to me. Tbf we don't share the parenting the same and if we did it would help. But before our DS we were at it like rabbits / shakira whenever wherever. My libido has dropped massively but I don't know why it just has. And I find faking it sad. I'd rather have great ligit sex when the moment is right than pretend and put on a show once a week.

Multiple people have said they think counselling might be helpful in facilitating better communication between you. You should go ahead and arrange it.

Ugh sorry OP, I don't know what to suggest unless maybe counselling. Have you approached this with her?

My DP and I have unbalanced libidos. Usually I am higher, and it's hit my self esteem sometimes if we try to plan, and it doesn't happen, or if I actively pursue intimacy and I get knocked back if he is tired etc. I fully relate to how disheartening it is when you crave to be so close to your love and they are not on the same page as you.

Now I'm heavily pregnant things have gone the other way and I'm sensitive to the fact that he may be feeling like I have. Sex is such an important part of the relationship to me, but communication is far more important and it sounds like you have neither.

It's really affecting you and I don't think you ought to neglect it. I'd tell you to sit down with your DP and chat, but it doesn't sound like it's really possible.