How to cope with an almost sexless marriage? Can counselling really help?

[LosingIt2022]

Hoping this is the most appropriate subforum.
I'm looking for some advice because the lack of sex life is putting a huge strain on our relationship.
I want to propose some form of couples therapy / counselling because this is the only way I can think of to make her understand how important this is to me; I do not expect miracles but I do not want to leave any stones unturned.
If nothing changes, I would at least like to understand if there are some coping strategies to help me not lose my sanity - I am banging my head against the wall while dying inside and she doesn't seem to take notice.

What are your experiences?
Is there really a solution for couples whose sex drives change so much over time?

The story:

I'm male, my wife and I are both mid 30s, we have 2 kids.

I have always had a higher sex drive but, while mine has remained constant, hers has been constantly plummeting.

It used to be about once a week, I imagined it would have become less frequent, but I never imagined once every 2-3 months.

When it happens, she gets really lost in the moment, which is amazing, but it has simply moved at the very bottom of her priority list: it will only happen if she's not too tired, if she has already finished her favourite TV series, if that night her best friend doesn't call her to rant about her new life as a divorcee, etc etc.

Any attempt at experimenting has been shot down mercilessly: new lingerie makes her feel under pressure, toys are not her thing.

I have tried to plan and set some time for ourselves in advance, but she says this makes her feel too much pressure.

Any attempt at communicating is very hard because she just does not want to talk about these things; she was brought up in a very conservative, not religious but Jane-Austen-like environment.

I asked if she would ever be willing to, well, tease me; there are times when she wants to cuddle and nothing more, is that really that different? Apparently for her yes, she was horrified at the idea.

I got really, really cross because a couple of weeks ago she told me in the morning that she would have actually wanted me but I was in the loft, working. Why didn't you call me? So I should just wait in bed for you to finish your TV series, on the off chance that once in a blue moon you might actually want me, but there can be no communication or planning?

I have lost count of the number of times I told her how I feel rejected and unimportant, and how I feel less important than a stupid TV series. It just doesn't register, it's as if I were speaking a different language.

There are lots of other things in the relationship which work really well, and they are a huge reason why I fancy her so much, but this remains a big problem.
I often wonder: had I known it would have ended up like this, would I have married this person and had 2 kids?

I stand by what I said. The very fact that you can pick out examples of looking after the kids proves my point. If you were really pulling your weight you'd not be able to pull out these random examples.

This is very true.

@category12
on anger and fancying her: yes, of course I am incredibly angry and bitter. But this is not (only) about sex, it's about poor communication.
How would you feel if you had an issue, of whatever kind, with your partner, they didn't want to talk about it, and only after months of you trying x y and z did they tell you they actually don't like that?

While you're angry, you're scary and far from attractive.

Maybe your anger is justified from your point of view, but it's not helpful in terms of getting the relationship on track.

What did you think about the suggestion to stop the pressure to have sex - take it off the table completely for a couple of months and trying to reconnect emotionally, with dates and time together, being nice to each other?

@LosingIt2022 , I really don't think you have any intention of doing anything to try to solve the issues in your relationship. The bootom line is that you want more sex without having to do anything differently to what you are doing at the moment.

You are not remotely interested in how you may be putting your wife off sex. I don't believe that your wife is not communicating with you, I think that you are not prepared to hear anything or make connections.

Of course replies are different for women in sex less relationships. For a start, they usually are sex less, like years. Secondly penetrative sex is a very different experience for women, you need to be safe, comfortable and relaxed. Thirdly, women have often been through pregnancy, birth, miscarriage, abortion. Lastly, a huge proportion of women will have some form of sexual abuse or sexual assault in their past.

Not to mention the expectation (that all girls and boys are aware of from children) is that women 'should' 'give' men sex. That fucks up everyone's sex life.

Sorry that should say aware of from childhood.

@BlueKaftan Maybe to get another perspective? I did imagine that quite a few responses would be of the "the man is always wrong regardless" type, but, still, I'd say I have managed to find some useful insights.

May I also humbly remind you that this topic is brought up quite frequently by women, too? That, if you had read my post, you would have understood it is about poor communication as much if not more than little sex? That poor communication is another topic which is very often brought up here by women?

@rookiemere
"Also interesting that you chose to use the word feminazi which does indicate there might be some deep rooted misogyny going on there."

You are welcome to think that. Out of curiosity, what do you call those who have a very different response whether the issue is brought up by a man or a woman? I was criticising the hypocritical attitude of considering sex a valid issue only if it's the woman who wants it but doesn't get it. TBH saying that criticising this attitude and/or even mentioning the word 'feminazi' in this context is so stereotypical it's not even worth debating.

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen , @Jellycatspyjamas as thank you for your kind words

@RandomMess
"The whole subconscious constant knowledge that your other half wants more sex is a huge sex drive killer. It's says very loud "I am not enough"."

What would you recommend, then? And what would you tell a woman if the roles were reversed and it was the woman wanting more?

I am not going to apologise for still wanting the very same things which I have always made clear from the very beginning were very, very important in the relationship for me.
Nor am I going to apologise for wanting to get to the bottom of the issue.
Again, I don't expect miracles, I fully appreciate that a likely outcome is I will either have to come to terms with a marriage with little to no sex, or to break up the family (which I really don't want to do).

On faking and fancying each other:
Yes, it is entirely possible she might be faking it. I do not expect to be able to tell if she fakes an orgasm. But, if she fakes the way she seems into it in the moment, the moment she very clearly tells me what she wants and how (which isn't always identical, etc), well, she deserves an Oscar for her performance...

On fancying each other: yes, I do fancy her as a person, not just as a piece of flash and I try to go to great lengths to share how I don't take it for granted, and how I appreciate all the other things on which we are totally on the same wave length and have never had an argument. I will not go into details because I do not want to share details which might identify me. I will just say that, after a specific difficult period for her, one divorced person in her family (who had gone through something similar) hugged me and said that, had her husband been like me, they would still be happily married.

Honestly you need to stop going on about it, no sulking, no being angry.

Step up and do more of the load at home, lots of affection in bed without expectation.

Your attitude is the turn off.

If you went to therapy the first thing they would say is take sex off the table.

Parenthood is a much bigger change for a woman that has been pregnant, given birth, breastfeed, been the default parent.

So much is hormones, having had 3 kids and now menopausal it's mind blowing how much it is pure hormones!

Op, you need to let go of 'I have been very clear from the start' and 'my sex drive has remained the same and hers has plummeted'.

Both statements seem to indicate that you are not prepared to put any work in or analyse anything about your romantic relationship and what it means for your wife.

There was a thread on here a week or two ago from a woman who was the 2nd wife of a man who had also 'been very clear' about his expectation of sex. The 'clear' conversation was due to the breakdown of his first marriage due to a diminishing sex life. The woman was posting due to not feeling comfortable with having sex as much as her husband wanted, it had become a barrier between them.

Both examples, your own and the woman posters husband are 'very clear' that the man's expectation is that the woman will do all the leg work in maintaining the romantic relationship with no effort (other than wanting sex) from the man. The common denominator in both that man's marriages was him, obviously.

@whosaidtha @Aussiegirl123456
On chores:
without getting into too much detail, like I said she has one set day a week where she comes home late to go to the gym, and a few others a month where she hangs out with her sister and/or girlfriends. I do not have set days for myself.

My work is more flexible so it's almost always me taking the kids to school, meeting the teachers, etc.
I love golf but my clubs have been gathering dust for more than 2 years.
I was quite good at a sport in my younger days, but I haven't practised that with mates in a while because that requires too much planning.
There are other very specific examples I will not go into, because I do not want to share any details which might identify us.

I am not annihilating myself in the marriage, I do have 'me' days without my wife, but objectively fewer than she gets.

To be clear, I am not saying this to imply I am perfect nor entitled to anything. I am simply humbly trying to point out that, at the risk of sounding cocky, the stereotype of the caveman demanding sex while not pulling his weight, which so many around here seem to think explains most such cases, does not really apply here. But if you want to adopt the stereotypical approach that the man is always wrong, the woman is always right, do go ahead, please.

Having said that, I fully appreciate she probably wants something different, but, if she's not willing to talk about it, I will never be able to mindread.

@Velvian "I really don't think you have any intention of doing anything to try to solve the issues in your relationship. The bootom line is that you want more sex without having to do anything differently to what you are doing at the moment."

And you have reached this conclusion based on... ?
I don't have the time to reply to every single post, but it seems to me that the idea of counselling originated from me, that many posters agree it's a starting point, and I will certainly try that.

So much is hormones, having had 3 kids and now menopausal it's mind blowing how much it is pure hormones!

I think that’s fair comment, also hormones impact your energy levels so much. Any time there’s talk of a woman being too tired for sex the assumption is that she’s doing everything at home and is knackered from the responsibility, mental load etc. I know for me hormonal changes left me absolutely worn out - nothing to do with being busy and everything to do with my body being out of kilter. HRT and careful checking my iron and B vitamin levels have restored my energy levels, while I’m as busy as I ever have been.

The OPs wife could at least seek medical advice to see if there’s a physical reason from her tiredness and lack of libido. What I hear is that her absolute refusal to look at their sex kids is causing anger and frustration. Having been in a similar situation with my exDH I can empathise.

How do you resolve issues in your sex life without talking about it 🤷‍♀️

We all have needs... different needs. Men needs are usually sexual. As a wife, it's part of our responsibility to please our husbands. Unfortunately, she's failed. Perhaps counselling may help if not it's a matter of time before you meet your needs elsewhere. I wish you all the best.

We all have needs... different needs. Men needs are usually sexual. As a wife, it's part of our responsibility to please our husbands. Unfortunately, she's failed.

We all do have needs, and both men and women often have sexual needs. As a partner is our responsibility to work in our relationship and keep it alive, and to try and resolve mismatches in needs. No one is failing, no-one owes sex to the other.

Agreed. If she is being completely unreasonable. No sex is ridiculous. When you are so young and healthy at least ..

@Velvian
"
Op, you need to let go of 'I have been very clear from the start' and 'my sex drive has remained the same and hers has plummeted'.

Both statements seem to indicate that you are not prepared to put any work in or analyse anything about your romantic relationship and what it means for your wife."

Again: based on what? What have I said I am not willing to do / consider / entertain???

You are wrong. I am angry. I am incredibly angry and bitter, like I think any person, regardless of gender, who has been shouting from the rooftops about the importance of a problem the other person is unwilling to even talk about, not just with the partner but with her sisters/friend/etc, would be.

If a woman came here and said: "I am losing it because my mother in law is very intrusive and my husband doesn't even want to talk about it" would you tell her she's not entitled to be angry? Would you tell her it's normal for men to want their mothers to be more present, so the wife must suck it up?

But being angry does not mean not wanting to do anything to solve the problem.
Again, I suggested therapy, I'll definitely propose it. I have sought feedback, and got some very useful insights, on how best to convey that proposing it is not an accusation but a way to try to address a problem.

I appreciate I need to calm down and that proposing it while I'm so bitter won't be particularly conducive. But I'm not going to apologise for being angry and bitter now.

@Jellycatspyjamas I agree with you. I don't like

@ZaraHussein 's point that wives have a responsibility to please their husbands. I find the thought repulsive. No one is entitled to sex. But I think everyone is entitled to open, honest communication within a relationship. I am not getting that at the moment. And it's doing my head in.

As well as counselling and letting go of the bitterness/anger start carving out time together in bed for 15 mins of maid cuddling. No TV, no phone etc etc get the connection back without sex being the goal.

These day there is so much sex available, if men don’t have a sex life at home there are plenty of single women or hookers to oblige, the opposite is true as well but to a lesser extent.
Both have to realise what is likely to happen if sex is not good.

Op, many of us have been through this or seen it. If you stay, eventually you will have an affair. At that point you will realise it's really easy to have sex outside your marriage. It's even easier to find a new partner once you've left.
Try counselling first. It helps ease a guilty conscience.

I think I can see the rationale. Thank you for mentioning this. I will propose this, too.

I would suggest having more time to talk. Just talk. Face to face. Be interested in each other's conversations (hard work not easy after a long day with kids) and make each other's laugh.

Any therapist would say you need to rediscover each other in the relationship. Remind yourself how yoy first met and fell in love. It started with conversations. Then missing each other's voices. Then holding hands. Remember how that went.

Having kids turned our lives up side down. Just start all over again.

Unfortunately when you are busy you have to make time / schedule sex. This is unromantic but part and parcel of a busy family life. My DH and I do not have high sex drives but if we don't do the Deed a few times a month can get grumpy and irritable with eachother. When the opportunity arises we have to do it then or have to schedule. Your wife may have to be accepting to this. Yes it's unromantic but you will both feel better afterwards and perhaps be more in the mood to prioritise.

OP I'm in a very similar situation to you, except about 15 years older.

I had some very long conversations with my wife and finally discovered the reason she took my concerns so unseriously was that all her friends were also not having sex with their husbands, so in her view I was no different to any other man.

I was, to say the least, upset by this rationale. I really don't care whether Fred or Bob is not having sex with his wife.

I had to really take time and explain why sex is important in a marriage, and why it was a big deal for me.

And the result is....zero change. The brutal reality is her libido has shrunk to almost nothing. It's so painful. I don't want to leave her over it, it feels absurd in a way, and I just don't think I'm the sort of person who can leave because of it. We have a lovely family and I have to make a calculation of is sex worth smashing everything up.

I WFH, earn about seven times more than she does, do the bulk of the housework, all the laundry, most of the cooking, kids are grown up. I've thrown myself into hobbies to channel my energy.

OP, your wife just isn't into you.