Fight turned physical, can we salvage this?

[Ineedausername2]

We have been married 6 months, living together about 5 in total. No kids together, but several children between us who are all very close to us both and settled living with us.

we have been having a rough patch lately, I feel unappreciated and he feels I’m constantly having a go and that he’s forced into apologising because I push him to take the blame for things. I try and say how I feel, but he feels I’m twisting things when I do this, and so communication has stalled. That said, we love each other very much and are incredibly happy the majority of the time.

this morning we had another argument - we had a babysitter booked so we could go on a (rare) date, but he was wanted to cancel and I said I felt un important because of this. He feels he is showing me I’m important as we are going on holiday for my birthday and so we don’t need a date too. He started getting angry with me, saying he couldn’t say anything right and in frustration I pushed a load of laundry off the side and a bag of Christmas presents I’d wrapped went with it. I was COMPLETELY out of order, i acted in frustration and I very much need to address this as it isn’t the way I want to behave or should have. I’m not ignoring my huge part in this, I promise.

in return though, DH sort of picked me up by my hoody at the neck and pushed me. I was shouting “what are you doing?” Which he has now said was me manipulating the situation to make it sound worse than it was. I was in complete shock and just stood there crying, he was incredibly angry saying I had broke him.

i went out to the car where one of our kids was waiting and had seen me be pushed up against the glass of the patio door, and reassured them
i was okay. I then went back in the house and DH said I should leave as he wanted to stab me. He then hugged me and said I’d made him the bad guy again, he had never hurt a woman ever and he wasn’t pushing me he was moving me out the way to stop me trashing the house.

it sounds horrendous on paper, I get that. Neither of us come off well, but I had no idea it was going to escalate when I pushed the laundry off the side. We are normally so happy, I love him. He loves me. I took our kids to the cinema, and he messaged to say he loved me. I’ve come home and we are clearly not talking properly but are being polite to each other.

i don’t know how to fix this. It it was my daughter I’d want her to leave, if it was my son I’d be so disappointed and angry in him. Is there any way back from this? I realise most people will say I need to leave, but god, I really don’t want to. I love him and we have this perfect life and the kids would be devestated. I can’t believe I’m writing this.

You remind me of myself in a previous relationship. I made excuses for him, forgave him everytime. Trust me when I say if you take him back it will get worse. In my case it took him actually trying to stab me whilst holding me by my throat for me to call the police and leave him.
I'm now happily married to the love of my life who has never shown aggression in the 15 years I've been with him.
Please leave him, don't be in the position I was

OP, please give this a read. It's so so insightful. It will make you see things from a whole different perspective.

You can easily find a free pfd version by googling it.

i know you don’t want this to be real, and you want your marriage to the man you want him to be, but people don’t just flip. Domestic violence is part of a pattern of behaviour and you have described the pattern which exists in your opening post. You cannot express your feelings without him saying you are twisting things (this means you end up not knowing which way is up). You cannot express your reality without him getting angry. His ‘flipping out’ was an escalation of him getting angry and not allowing you to express your feelings. He blames you for the fact that he cannot control his temper and is abusive; somehow it’s all your fault - and you are not allowed to defend yourself. That’s the pattern in your opening posts and it is right there in the comment that if he wanted to stab you, he would have - he has the power in this relationship. You are searching for ways to understand and excuse him, which is natural as you are married and don’t want this to have happened, but it has happened and it doesn’t matter why in terms of next steps.

The thing is, if you take him back, you have got to do this horrible part all over again when something else happens or you realise you cannot live with always being on eggshells. It’s crap that this is happening, no-one is saying it is not, but you cannot make it un-happen. Please focus on yourself and DC.

Op, he is calculating and manipulative. Everything he has said has been to turn it on you, and you said yourself it was like he was planning what to say if you did call the police. The hugging you yet telling you you're making him the bad guy

I know it's particularly hard because it's Christmas, but he is a real danger to you. He threatened to stab you. Don't lose sight of that. It's not something you should

And don't lose sight of the fact the children witnessed this. It is not a great family Christmas to have a man capable of this in their home. They must have been scared and horrified. It's not OK to minimise what they saw (and the effect growing up in sn unsafe home can have). It's not OK to normalise what they saw.

Argh sorry, bits of my post seem to have gone missing, my phone was doing something weird.

Missing bits:
The hugging you yet telling you you're making him the bad guy is emotionally abusive. It's gaslighting.

He threatened to stab you. Don't lose sight of that. It's not something you should shrug off.

A lot of what he's said has been the classic abusive script which you'll have seen before if you've been on Mumsnet 15 years. I know when it's happening to you it doesn't feel real and it can't be your life, but it is.

unless he acknowledges that it was not okay, then it could happen again

I know that unless he recognises how wrong today was that he can’t come home - even if it’s PTSD

This is concerning to me OP, even if he says he's sorry and he won't do it again you don't know that and you can't let him back in your home around your children after he's said he wanted to stab you, you'd be an absolute idiot.

Don't let him back just because he says "what I did was bad", he will do it again and next time it'll be worse.

I think his background in the forces / the police is relevant.

If someone who has been trained how to stab people tells me he wants to stab me then that is a much more significant, serious threat than say an accountant or IT specialist saying the same words.

Of course it’s terrible whoever says it, but someone who really knows how to do it as well? Watch out….

Please re-read all of @Onnabugeisha 's posts. They give you such helpful insight into what he has been trained to do (accurately assess danger) and how his reaction is absolutely nothing to do with PTSD. Once you understand that, you will recognize what his behaviour really is and that you must never take him back. Sending you love and strength x

If this was happening to someone else it would be so black and white, but when it’s my life it’s so hard to be so categorical. I never thought I would be in this situation, I didn’t have a plan B for it!

I’ve spent the night figuring out a plan for him not coming home. We can split the furniture and he can have the house up the lane. I can pay the school fees till end of summer and then reassess then where we live.

i just don’t know how to get through Xmas. Longer term seems easier weirdly.

thank you all so much for your help, I’m still in shock that I’m here in this situation.

Im so proud of you OP. This is such a horrible awful shock. This will be hard no doubt but both options are hard and staying will put you and your kids at risk. You absolutely can do this and you have the security of knowing your children will never have to witness domestic violence ever again. Please keep that in mind. One crap Christmas is worth it to escape potentially years of fear, terror, victimisation and gaslighting

I'm worried that this behaviour has become normalised from very early in the relationship so you just haven't seen how wrong it's always been. You talk about how he used to get right up in your face like it is endearing and perfectly natural in a relationship but that was actually your red flag not to get married. Did the children ever witness that?

Totally agree with you! A more measured approach rather than assuming he is some kind of monster would be good! Yea he’s been in the forces and served his country and now he’s a danger to women????? I’m checking out of this thread now. Have a nice xmas

Farewell! One less domestic abuse apologist around 👌

Army/ police veterans often have dark ways of experiencing things due to seeing horrific things and those being normalised.

FGS actually follow that thought through all the way to the end 🙄 . Ex service men, especially those who have been in combat, have been shown to be a higher risk of committing violent offences in civilian life.

This means we need to do more for ex-servicemen in terms of mental health support and re-integration into civilian life, BUT it doesn't mean their families should be expected to accept aggression and violence in the home or put themselves at risk because he has PTSD. Those men need to keep their families safe by staying away if they can't keep control.

And I have no idea how you justify the way he has gaslit OP and made it all her fault following the incident. If you use the language of domestic abusers, manhandle your partner and make graphic threats, you are the proverbial duck.

If you flip it and look at it from his perspective, he thinks you were throwing something at him (?) and trashing the house, so he physically moved you to stop you doing it again, and from his point of view, you were implying he was trying to hit you.

To me, this isn't as huge as it's being made out to be. But only you know whether it's possible to give it another try.

If so, the elephant in the room needs to be addressed. I.e why he thinks you've broken him.
However if he has no basis for saying that, then it's horrible gaslighting and there's no way back

Thinking of you OP, I am so sorry you are having to deal with this.

I think him being ex forces is relevant. He can handle himself, he has killed people both in close combat and far range (he was a sniper) he says he could kill again if he needed too, and I believe him. He can go very closed and controlled, and I don’t doubt he was an exceptionally good soldier for that regardless of the shitty PTSD it has left him with.

BUT, what happened with me yesterday was that he lost control. What he did - the move was practiced - I can’t describe it, it was fluid? He knew what he was doing, but his temperament was out of control. He’s messaged this morning saying he lost control and it scared him. That scares me too.

I love him so much. I want him to get help for whatever happened between us - I know I pushed him to his limits, but that’s life - I need to know that we will have shitty times in our marriage and me and the kids will still be safe. He’s agreed to go to a counsellor (alone) to get some help and try and unpick it. I think I need a counsellor too to try and help me make sense of everything. My life’s flipped upside down over night and there’s no quick fixes for this one.

I’ve been trying to see it from his point of view because I don’t understand where it came from. He says he was moving me out the way, but he didn’t actually move me anywhere really, I was already by the door. I get having things thrown around you was utterly shitty of me though - it wasn’t at him, but it was off the table in quite a dramatic sweep.

i think him saying I’ve broken him is because he lost control and it spiralled. He’s done some awful things in his jobs, but he’s always been adamant you never hurt a woman. Him doing that is the most shameful thing for him I would have said. He’s usually very principled, I would imagine this is his rock bottom. I don’t know any more, I’m so confused by everything, I don’t know how to make sense of something that doesn’t make sense?!

Sweetheart this isn't overnight. This was already happening early on. Until you are able to recognise that you'll never be able to understand why last night happened. Getting in your face the way you said he used to is not normal. The acceptance of that has kept you in a relationship you probably would scream at other people to get out of now. I really think you need to a knowledge there were red flags going on at the start. This didn't just happen last night.

I've always found it difficult to comprehend how the armed forces can break you down as an individual and rebuild you into someone capable of being unaffected by killing another human. I can't see how you can just put that stuff in a box and keep it there when you leave the forces.

OP at some point you may have to face that you can't fully understand his mindset and that it's not your responsibility to do so. But I understand that desire for answers. Counseling for yourself is a great idea. Have you called Women's Aid yet?

To the various apologists on this thread .... No one is telling OP to leave because she "stubbed her toe." Don't minimise and don't muddy the waters.

No, there is nothing you did which made him lose control. Nothing. He lost control because he was not able to keep appropriate boundaries in place. Don’t you see that? Saying it is your fault, you have broken him is reminiscent of the old defence of provocation which used to be accepted. It’s not okay to physically pin you to the wall and threaten to stab you because he thinks he was provoked. Would it be okay for him to kill you because he thinks he was provoked? The answer is no.
and no, he did not lose control - that is his narrative- he escalated a pattern of behaviour that was already there. Now he is remorseful because he finds himself in a hotel room but how long until the next time.
plus get in touch with Women’s Aid.

Absolutely not, he was not physically threatened he had no reason to manhandle you. And yes, threatening to stab you is horrible! He is the only person responsible for his actions, it wasn't self defense, so the "you made me do this" logic doesn't wash. I agree his earlier behavior (and continuing fights?) are also unacceptable. Love yourself as much as you love your daughter, don't raise her to think this kind of thing is ok. Keep telling people about it, they will lift you up and keep you strong when you think about wavering.

Plan lots of fun activities for tomorrow, everything else can wait. You are strong and you can do hard things.