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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Fight turned physical, can we salvage this?

253 replies

Ineedausername2 · 23/12/2022 17:04

We have been married 6 months, living together about 5 in total. No kids together, but several children between us who are all very close to us both and settled living with us.

we have been having a rough patch lately, I feel unappreciated and he feels I’m constantly having a go and that he’s forced into apologising because I push him to take the blame for things. I try and say how I feel, but he feels I’m twisting things when I do this, and so communication has stalled. That said, we love each other very much and are incredibly happy the majority of the time.

this morning we had another argument - we had a babysitter booked so we could go on a (rare) date, but he was wanted to cancel and I said I felt un important because of this. He feels he is showing me I’m important as we are going on holiday for my birthday and so we don’t need a date too. He started getting angry with me, saying he couldn’t say anything right and in frustration I pushed a load of laundry off the side and a bag of Christmas presents I’d wrapped went with it. I was COMPLETELY out of order, i acted in frustration and I very much need to address this as it isn’t the way I want to behave or should have. I’m not ignoring my huge part in this, I promise.

in return though, DH sort of picked me up by my hoody at the neck and pushed me. I was shouting “what are you doing?” Which he has now said was me manipulating the situation to make it sound worse than it was. I was in complete shock and just stood there crying, he was incredibly angry saying I had broke him.

i went out to the car where one of our kids was waiting and had seen me be pushed up against the glass of the patio door, and reassured them
i was okay. I then went back in the house and DH said I should leave as he wanted to stab me. He then hugged me and said I’d made him the bad guy again, he had never hurt a woman ever and he wasn’t pushing me he was moving me out the way to stop me trashing the house.

it sounds horrendous on paper, I get that. Neither of us come off well, but I had no idea it was going to escalate when I pushed the laundry off the side. We are normally so happy, I love him. He loves me. I took our kids to the cinema, and he messaged to say he loved me. I’ve come home and we are clearly not talking properly but are being polite to each other.

i don’t know how to fix this. It it was my daughter I’d want her to leave, if it was my son I’d be so disappointed and angry in him. Is there any way back from this? I realise most people will say I need to leave, but god, I really don’t want to. I love him and we have this perfect life and the kids would be devestated. I can’t believe I’m writing this.

OP posts:
Soothsayer1 · 24/12/2022 11:58

I’ve been trying to see it from his point of view because I don’t understand where it came from
I would say the real reason you are trying to see it from his point of view, the underlying thing which is driving this is that it's an instinctive response when faced with a dangerous predator. It's the fight flight freeze or fawn thing, it's not really under your conscious control unless you've trained yourself to recognise what's going on. We instinctively try to flatter and placate the aggressor to stop them from killing us because that is your best chance of survival in that moment.
Think of how a herd of prey animals behave when the lions are on the prowl, they are hypervigilant always keeping one eye out for the Predator.
OP, when he behaves in an aggressive and threatening manner you instinctively become hypervigilant, all your attention is focused on him and keeping him placated. This is an automatic response and it's difficult to override.

Sandra1984 · 24/12/2022 12:01

Soothsayer1 · 24/12/2022 11:58

I’ve been trying to see it from his point of view because I don’t understand where it came from
I would say the real reason you are trying to see it from his point of view, the underlying thing which is driving this is that it's an instinctive response when faced with a dangerous predator. It's the fight flight freeze or fawn thing, it's not really under your conscious control unless you've trained yourself to recognise what's going on. We instinctively try to flatter and placate the aggressor to stop them from killing us because that is your best chance of survival in that moment.
Think of how a herd of prey animals behave when the lions are on the prowl, they are hypervigilant always keeping one eye out for the Predator.
OP, when he behaves in an aggressive and threatening manner you instinctively become hypervigilant, all your attention is focused on him and keeping him placated. This is an automatic response and it's difficult to override.

Yep, she’s going to be walking on lots of egg shells if she decides to stay with this man…

Ameadowwalk · 24/12/2022 12:36

The other thing which struck me with the ‘you have broken him’ comment is that if this was really the case, rather than a piece of emotional manipulation to make you feel responsible, he would not come back. He would go off and build a new life, safe from the situation with you. So if you have broken him, then he needs to stay away for his own sanity and safety.

(I don’t think you have broken him, btw, I think it is emotional manipulation, but even if you take it at face value, it’s an argument for separating).

Soothsayer1 · 24/12/2022 12:44

It sounds to me as if he is 'broken' in the sense of being dysfunctional not in control of himself and not safe to be around.
He blames it on OP because he has to have everything on his terms and refuses to accept any loss of face. He must not be criticised because he cannot tolerate being in the wrong..... everything has to be your fault because he cannot tolerate it being his fault.

SlouchingTowardsBethlehemAgain · 24/12/2022 12:48

A dangerous manipulative man. He had his story ready and warned you so, should you call the police. He says you have broken him to try to cover the stabbing threat. The argument was because he could not be bothered to go on a planned date with you. Anyone would have been furious to be so rejected. He will try to come back, to make you accept a life of fear and subjugation. He may threaten to kill himself to get his legs back under your table, but if you don't want to live like a frightened mouse in your own home how could you live with him again? You have been very brave and clear headed - don't let him manipulate you.

Amazonmulu · 24/12/2022 12:52

OP you pushed laundry off a surface. How the f is that sufficient to "break him" or result in assault?!!? If my husband pushed laundry i'd say well you seem very angry, when you've picked that up and calmed down we can talk more on how to resolve this. I wouldn't assault him in a fluid military motion in front of our kids. Wtaf.

I'm so so glad you made him leave and that he will seek help. And that you have a plan for where he will live away from you.

You must phone the police and report this. You must. Even if you don't press charges.

I suspect you want to and will forgive him. So this violence will return and become a normal part of your life. Having a police report will help for when you are ready to leave after another episode of violence. Hopefully it won't be too late.

You've heard so many harrowing stories on this thread alone. Don't let your story be another tragic tale.

RudsyFarmer · 24/12/2022 12:53

They’ll be something at the heart of this causing tension. My guess would be money.

ScrabbleRabbler · 24/12/2022 13:12

Ineedausername2 · 24/12/2022 02:55

I honestly think he has detached now, so the danger has gone. He’s switched off from us - he was dangerous earlier and I was scared, but now he’s gone and he’s closed off from me I genuinely think we are okay. I don’t think I’m being naive - I know him, he might of lashed out but he’s not calculating. I really do think the danger has passed.

Show quote history

You need to report to the police desire the danger passing. It’s critical

Pinkbonbon · 24/12/2022 13:25

If you haven't already, you need to sit down with your daughter and explain to her that it's never OK for a man to put his hands on a woman and that's why he has to go. That you are sorry she had to see that. That sometimes we think people are good but when it turns out otherwise, we have to act to protect ourselves from them.

Your daughter may bring the situation up with other adults. Who may involve social services. Who would take a very dim view of you letting this man around her again, so it's bloody good he is gone.

He spotted you early on and targeted you as it was obvious your boundaries were not what they they needed to be. Why? Because you stayed with him even when he displayed aggressive behaviour. You excused it as ptsd and didn't care that it was a massive red flag with bells on.

And I'll say it again, he didn't lose control. Everything about his actions was exceedingly calculated. It was deliberately planned to intimidate you. I believe he even canceled the date in order to make you feel shitty, so you would react and he could 'react' to that and make out it you 'provoked' him.

It's also worth considering that narcissists like to ruin holidays that are not all about them. (YouTube - narcissists ruin holidays). Which may have been his original intention.

OldFan · 24/12/2022 13:46

^in return though, DH sort of picked me up by my hoody at the neck and pushed me. I was shouting “what are you doing?” Which he has now said was me manipulating the situation to make it sound worse than it was. I was in complete shock and just stood there crying, he was incredibly angry saying I had broke him. i went out to the car where one of our kids was waiting and had seen me be pushed up against the glass of the patio door, and reassured them
i was okay. I then went back in the house and DH said I should leave as he wanted to stab me. He then hugged me and said I’d made him the bad guy again, he had never hurt a woman ever and he wasn’t pushing me he was moving me out the way to stop me trashing the house.^

Wow OP this isn't ok and you do need to leave. He assaulted you (which your DC saw) and then he said he was thinking of killing you.

billy1966 · 24/12/2022 14:12

Pinkbonbon · 24/12/2022 13:25

If you haven't already, you need to sit down with your daughter and explain to her that it's never OK for a man to put his hands on a woman and that's why he has to go. That you are sorry she had to see that. That sometimes we think people are good but when it turns out otherwise, we have to act to protect ourselves from them.

Your daughter may bring the situation up with other adults. Who may involve social services. Who would take a very dim view of you letting this man around her again, so it's bloody good he is gone.

He spotted you early on and targeted you as it was obvious your boundaries were not what they they needed to be. Why? Because you stayed with him even when he displayed aggressive behaviour. You excused it as ptsd and didn't care that it was a massive red flag with bells on.

And I'll say it again, he didn't lose control. Everything about his actions was exceedingly calculated. It was deliberately planned to intimidate you. I believe he even canceled the date in order to make you feel shitty, so you would react and he could 'react' to that and make out it you 'provoked' him.

It's also worth considering that narcissists like to ruin holidays that are not all about them. (YouTube - narcissists ruin holidays). Which may have been his original intention.

Great post.

You are in shock despite knowing that he has always had issues.

How do you imagine your daughter is feeling today?

I would imagine that is one terrified child who has had the most enormous shock.

Highly likely she will share it at some point with someone.

You feel your life turned upside down yesterday?

I can assure you that seeing your mother assaulted will be something your CHILD will NEVER forget.

These things change childhoods and lives.

Honestly, for me, I would never forgive him for changing your daughters childhood yesterday.

Aquasulis · 24/12/2022 15:46

You must report it to the police. Please believe me - you need a paper trail and evidence. And this has potential for him to kill you - that is what will happen if his behaviour doesn’t reel you back in.

he says sorry, you tell him you love him, hold hands but say you can’t continue
he snaps again and this will continue

he is a nasty manipulative man who has the potential to kill either you or someone you care about to ‘teach you’

report him now - I speak from experience

it made my divorce so much easier

WillTryNotToBeGrumpy · 24/12/2022 15:56

I just want to say that I'm really sorry that you have had this happen to you and I hope you and your family have a good a Christmas as you can. It sounds a very complicated situation not as black and white as some of the other stories you read on hear. Good luck whatever you decide.

WillTryNotToBeGrumpy · 24/12/2022 15:59

*here.

AgentJohnson · 24/12/2022 16:54

but he’s always been adamant you never hurt a woman. Him doing that is the most shameful thing for him I would have said. He’s usually very principled.

As the great Lizzo said, Why men great 'til they gotta be great?

Has he actually said sorry and taken full responsibility I.e not making excuses about you breaking him.

I know you don’t want to hear it but there’s nothing he’s said or done that says he understands how terrible he’s behaved. Given his previous gaslighting, I’d expect talk of ‘counselling’ to be nothing but lip service deployed to lull you into a false sense of security.

NandoReindeer · 24/12/2022 17:35

Witnessing domestic violence is child abuse. You had no way of knowing that would happen yesterday but it will happen again if you get back with him. Your child could easily tell someone and then it will be raised as a safeguarding issue. How do you plan to get around that, asking her not to tell anyone?

Pinkbonbon · 24/12/2022 17:46

Ironically people who 'would never hurt a woman' are usually the people who DO hurt women. Most men would never feel the need to say such a thing as not hurting ANYONE is a given.

Its like men who say 'I'm a nice guy'. Nice guys don't feel the need to go round telling people what nice guys they are.

Bullies like to profess their goodness. But their actions give them away.

5128gap · 24/12/2022 18:34

He is lying when he says he did it to stop you trashing the house. He did it in anger. He admitted as much by saying he wants to stab you.
So, a man who thinks violent thoughts about you has laid hands on you in anger. Staying with him is not a risk I'd be willing to take in your shoes. Particularly given your propensity for self blame which makes you easy prey.

Coyoacan · 24/12/2022 21:19

Ironically people who 'would never hurt a woman' are usually the people who DO hurt women

The only man I ever knew who hit me was also the only one who ever swore that he was totally against men hitting women.

ScrabbleRabbler · 24/12/2022 21:48

Be a role model to your DD, report this to the police and tell your DD what you’ve done to protect yourself and the kids.

Tuilpmouse · 26/12/2022 07:26

DanseAvecLesLoups · 23/12/2022 17:41

This is not an "incredibly happy" relationship (there's no such thing in real life - the best relationships are basically 'fine, with some bumpy bits').

The best relationships are a bit more then 'fine with some bumpy bits'!

That's true, but it also seems to be the case that abusive relationships are also ones with extreme highs as well as extreme lows... I remember one appalling one recently where the OP said she was "loved up" in her long term relationship and that immediately set alarm bells ringing...

justasking111 · 26/12/2022 13:02

ssafa.org.uk/?gclid=CjwKCAiAqaWdBhAvEiwAGAQltnChaVqYxf2opUKRhmtEmgxjoJh5tbHIfeag22K9a7CNhj5EZl81uhoCjT8QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

I've worked with SSAFA, a lovely charity. You could speak to them. Unfortunately lines closed today. It may help you and the children and him @Ineedausername2

Have a look at the website.

justasking111 · 26/12/2022 13:05

Think about this ex military with PTSD are welcomed into the police which worries me.

category12 · 26/12/2022 13:25

There have been some studies that suggest domestic violence rates in police families is higher than the general population.

I think by their nature the forces and police end up "other"ing people, in order to do what they do. And like it or not, there's a lot of misogyny and "boys club" culture in these institutions.

OldFan · 26/12/2022 14:28

There have been some studies that suggest domestic violence rates in police families is higher than the general population.

I think by their nature the forces and police end up "other"ing people, in order to do what they do. And like it or not, there's a lot of misogyny and "boys club" culture in these institutions.

It's quite a 'blokey' culture among the men I imagine.

Also, they might think the police would be more likely to back them up/let them get away with it, as they are one of them. But nowadays the police get quite a bit of 'woke' training and also might know that if they do back up their own when it comes to DV, it'd reflect really badly on them if it were to come out.