Well, here we are… another one

[Beachlives]

Sitting in my car trying to process that H has just told me he’s had an affair. Fucks sake.

I realise now that I always knew what my decision would be…so although outwardly I was waiting for XH to do something to show me he was sorry, he would never have been able to do enough to make things right; our marriage was broken, and he had broken it.

You are right to go gently and to your own timetable @Beachlives, you’ll be ready when you are ready.

I've been following your post since before Xmas silently and I'd like to share a YouTube link to a ted talk from relationship therapist Esther Perel. If you have a spare 20 mins it's actually quite good and really wholesome.

It helped me alot when my husband cheated and I chose to stay agaisnt every fibre of being and every moral I ever stood for.

It's actually quite good listening.

Take care OP

@Beachlives I do so understand what you say. I stayed because it was something very historical ,and I found out quite by chance and didn't have the resources just to say 'that's it' . But as you rightly say, I've never felt 100% the same about things and it still often pops into
My head. . I do still care, I don't hate him , we do still get on and if I'm being selfish I wasn't prepared to make my life much worse either and at the time I was mid 50s with son about to leave home . But what he had done kind of snuffed the candle out romantically and sexually for me. I couldn't see him in the same way. He was kind of remorseful but more embarrassed I feel and desparate for it to just 'go away' but he did say a few stupid things too like 'how long do I have to wear the hair shirt' or 'you aren't going to get past it if you keep bringing it up or getting upset- I've said how sorry I am but it's long time ago' (it was 10 years previous) I guess we are all different and loyalty and kindness was very important to me .

I have name changed. I am another who has stayed. It was an emotional affair conducted over social media. They never met and he was stupid enough not to delete anything so I know they only spoke twice. There were no sexual messages but plenty of love declarations. It went on for 4 months. They live in different countries.

I found out in spring and last year was a rollercoaster for me. We had had a challenging few years with young kids. I know I have faults and I certainly wasn’t the best partner but it was a shock. I had had suspicions for around 2 months and he was saying he wanted us to split up. I read a lot of stuff online and started a new hobby, joined a gym and read self help stuff about improving myself as I genuinely felt he was going to leave. We went to counselling, I told him he can go if he desperately wanted to. He then changed and threw himself into us. I checked his phone and found it all. It was still happening but he had stopped responding as much as it looks like our counselling and my moving on had made him question his own behaviour.

I understand why he did it. What he got from it etc. Im not so sure why she did it and I doubt I’ll ever know but she had nothing to lose I guess. I do know life is not clear cut. People make mistakes and I can see how emotional affairs can happen.

I think my reaction surprised him. I was calm (for a week or two), he exited the fog within about a week, after calling it off the morning I found the messages. I saw the change. I also waited for remorse to hit. Which it did about 4 weeks later. The change in our marriage has been unbelievable. But the trauma I felt last year was incredible - I have not had a sheltered life and I cannot believe the emotions I have felt. Anger, despair, rage, calm, positivity at being able to get out if a relationship Rut, round and round they would go. But strangely my self esteem is not only intact but I feel great about myself. Stranger still I trust him. I definitely don’t take the blame - he can have that! I don’t seem to have any of the typical issues. Knowing him for the last 15 years I know he will struggle with what he has done. I can sometimes see it when I look at him.

It has made me see him differently. We got together pretty young. There have been no previous fuck ups. I’m pretty sure he would forgive me if it was the other way round. Im not without my own faults, many stemming from my non sheltered past. I think I can accept a one off fuck up. I have not hidden anything about how I feel. He has watched me sob, rage, scream. I think this has helped. I hid nothing. I couldn’t hide it. I wasn’t sure what I wanted for several months. I just decided I wanted the option of us working so I initially did enough to keep my options open.

What scares me is whether I’m fooling myself somehow. I don’t think I am, I’ve worked through every feeling possible! Has anyone successfully journaled?

I’ve been following your thread and hoping you are okay. I nearly posted once before. I’ve told no one in real life except the counsellor (which I’ve now stopped) as I didn’t want to have to justify myself and I didn’t want him to be seen differently if I decided to stay.

There’s nothing wrong with splitting up or staying together - just don’t shut either door until YOU are ready.

agaisnt every fibre of being and every moral I ever stood for.

Esther Perel makes money out of reconciliation BS. Somebody has to. Doesn't mean she right about anything.

Personally her repetitive babble makes me switch off very quickly.

She is very good at avoiding core, pertinent topics like integrity.

Also EP is big on the whole "expecting somebody to be everything, life long monogamy being unrealistic" thing .... Perfect valid,; however there are solutions to life long monogamy that are equal & honest, like an open relationship, or ending a relationship. Cheaters do not choose those solutions because they are fundamentally selfish, sneaky, dishonest, don't want their partner to have the extra/time out that they entities themselves to, don't want an equal playing field, don't want any sacrifices .. they want to keep all the benefits of monogamy from their partner (which they'd lose if they played fair) while gaining the benefits of polygny. You can wax lyrical about monogamy all day, but the fundamental fact is that a cheater chooses to play by different rules while forcing their partner to stick to the original ones. They feel they are entitled to more than their partner, that they have more rights than their partner or that their rights supercede their partners. They disregard equality. EP can waffle all day but she'll never dissipate the fundamental lack of integrity, the entitlement and believing their partner has fewer rights than them etc. that underpins their choices.

In fact, character (rather than just choices).

I stayed after exh's first affair. We had two under 3 and I think I was so shell shocked I couldn't get my head around it. We limped on but it was never the easy relationship it had once been. My confidence And self esteem were on the floor and I resented him for doing that to me and to our family.
After the second affair 6 years later I left. That was also traumatic in lots of ways but having lived both lives I like my current one better. I have found my worth again and it's not the half life I was living when with him.

Despite it all we co parent ok. That takes effort but it's worth it for the DS's.. they are mid and late teens now and already it's easier as naturally I don't need to interact with exh as much as when they were little. When they are adults I imagine it will be not at all and I do t for a second miss it. Once I thought I'd never do without him...it's just goes to show that it's all a journey really. No one route is easier than other. But if I had my time again I wouldn't waste any of them being with someone who made me feel so much less.

@VisaGeezer and what EP cannot possibly cover off is a simple feeling of 'not feeling the same about someone' . If some people can forgive and forget and go on to create a different relationship and still feel the same about someone then great- but a lot of people simply don't feel the same after being totally let down fidelity wise, be it physical or emotional or both and the glue that held you together has now melted.

The awful thing is that they all live to regret it.
I can think of 3 men in my family/friends circle who are now facing old age on their own, mainly alienated from their DC's because of their behaviour. 2 of them have asked to "go back" but were refused, the third has had a string of "girlfriends" until he lost his looks, money, and flash car!
Op you are doing the best for you, keep at it x

They don't all live to regret it .Some ,like mine ,went on to marry his OW and there they are 35 years later .

My exh got cheated on by his OW after a couple of years and is now on his second intercontinental LDR after the first didn't work out. But I doubt he regrets it anyway - tbh being single suits his lifestyle better.

Remorse and regret.wtaf.this wasn't a one night stand.it was a fucking year.when you needed him most.when you thought you were working things through.he was only coming forward because said affair wasn't happy and he was shit scared shed get her story( I bet more the truth) to you first!
A fucking year. Nah. Remorse.365 days of regret.bastard.

It’s often the ex (first) wife who is the only person at the deathbed. Says it all.

You’ve handled this in such a dignified way. I hope you’re proud of yourself.

I'm so sorry this has happened. I just want to say that you should know that whatever happens - ie you split and start seperate lives, or you stay together and try to repair the damage, that you will still be you. You will still be the awesome, loyal, amazing, unique and good person you are. His actions dont make you, less you. This is something I struggled with when I went through this and I wish someone had said to me. Dont sell yourself out and dont undersell yourself either. Stay true to yourself and know that you are strong and you will survive and thrive - even against the headwinds and in very difficult circumstances. Lots of love from a fellow traveller xx

I read your post before Christmas OP, then life got in the way, so I've just caught up with your posts now.

All I can say is your H has dropped a massive clanger hasn't he (understatement of the year!)?? Why on earth would he risk everything like that, when he's got such an amazing family at home?! Honestly, I don't understand people sometimes. What a fuckwit!

You and your kids sound fabulous and you're doing brilliantly.

@Gricheynewyear I'm interested to know if you'd have stayed had it been a physical affair rather than just an emotional affair?

I do think plenty forgive but myself, I couldn't do it. The reason being I have friends/family who are in strong, loving relationships so why wouldn't I deserve the same treatment/level of respect. I'm sure if I stayed, my love would die a bit

Thank you all, this thread really is helping me get through stuff. And I do really appreciate the words of support. We sometimes feel quite dysfunctional as a family (even before this mess) but are fundamentally good people (well, me and DC anyway) which is good enough for me.

Today I have massive anger. Huge. Not just about my situation but about all the other threads I’m seeing that are the same situation in different guises. What the fuck is the matter with these people?! If your relationship is that bad that you are looking elsewhere for something at least have the guts to front up about it before you actually do anything. I mean, how bloody cowardly.

it’s the active disrespect that is really making me angry, that and the fact that we’ve made a few significant decisions over the past few months, and I may well have made different ones had I known.

DC are doing pretty well under the circumstances. DD hasn’t said much (she doesn’t tend to until she’s ready). The DSs are clear on where they stand, he’s their dad and always will be, but his actions are beyond unacceptable. It’s a shame for them that they’ve had to experience their dad in such a disappointing way.
They are all very good at giving (and sometimes even receiving) hugs 🤗

And yes, @AtomicRitual, he is indeed a fuckwit

It’s a shame for them that they’ve had to experience their dad in such a disappointing way.
I thought I'd chosen a halfway decent dad for them and then he was replaced by this embarrassing specimen and it feels like my fault for making a poor choice! Ugh.
Mine (now adults) are also very understanding, but occasionally moan about something their dad has done and I find it very hard to react. I don't want them to have a poor relationship with him, so I feel I shouldn't vilify him. But instead I find myself trying to explain his poor behaviour, and it feels like I'm making excuses and not supporting the children's valid complaints.

I think it's important to realise that when people say 'well there must be something wrong or they wouldn't look elsewhere' in many cases there is nothing obviously wrong at all- (and particularly with men) the other person just got greedy, really liked the ego buzz and the secrecy and sometimes more sex and thought they would get away with it. As a guy told me once , he enjoyed the buzz for a month and then realised he was in shit street and couldn't get out of it as the other person now had an attachment and might land him in it. He certainly didn't actually want out of his marriage when he started it, but sadly it went that way. He then felt kind of obliged to have a relationship with the affair partner ! Go figure!

I fully agree with this comment. I read somewhere recently that women cheat when they are unhappy in their relationships, men cheat for no particular reason, other than the opportunity arose.
And so we, women have tendency to wonder what was wrong with our marriage, why he didn’t communicate that he was unhappy…when in reality there was nothing wrong or at least nothing specific changed, he just suddenly had the opportunity and decided to go for it.
it’s really scary because in a way there is nothing you can proactively do to prevent it happening, apart from hope that your partner is one if the decent ones who when presented with the opportunity, will walk away from it.
that’s just my opinion, I hope I will never be in this situation but it’s horrible to see how often it happens, even to strong and good marriages.
wishing you all the best OP.

Hi OP, just read all your posts. Well fucking done you! You've done brilliantly and if I was your IRL friend I would buy you all the wine

If it helps, you could lean into the rage when it comes, like today. Go and scream and swear somewhere, where no one will hear and you can be as loud as you like! It's good to feel that getting out of you!

So I've not been cheated on by DH but we have been together 20 years and last couple have been rocky AF. He lied to my face about drinking and then got caught out. The circumstances were truly shit - I had just had DC2 and was co-sleeping with the baby as he was teeny and underweight and we needed skin to skin. I told DH, lovingly, that he had to not drink because of the baby, or if he did drink he had to sleep in the spare room. He agreed. Then he was all slurry and messed up and I said "drunk?" and he said "no, just tired - you're being hormonal, and paranoid" etc etc. This went on for days, I felt like I was losing my mind. Then I found the multiple empty bottles of vodka...

What I've felt over the past 2 years has really evolved. In a nutshell, I've stayed, and things are getting better.
The first thing was total despair, rage, betrayal. Trust is a red line for me and he broke it completely. How could he choose booze over the safety of our newborn baby? How could he gaslight me like that? Who is this cruel immoral callous stranger in my house?
Then I felt the weight of what a breakup would mean, for our kids (who are much littler than yours and far less emotionally intelligent!) and for us. I felt massive pressure to stay, massively trapped by that, and that I wasn't strong enough to split up. I hated myself and felt weak and guilty and ashamed.
Then I did some deep work with a counsellor about families and patterns and inherited pain responses. I have my stuff, definitely - my mum died young and my dad abandoned us kids soon after and I found becoming a parent re-triggered a lot of my trauma.
I think basically that the same thing happened for him - in his family his dad was an alcoholic, his mum is pretty emotionally withdrawn, they broke up when he was 9 and he suffered a lot of grief but being an only child he had no one to talk to and suppressed a lot. Becoming a dad re-triggered a lot of this but he was still really closed off and saw no way to cope except the booze.
Seeing so clearly how those patterns we had mirrors our parents' stories, I was hyper-aware that the chain goes on past us - we already have kids. I really had to think about how I could try to END some of the patterns with DH and I, instead of tying them up in a bow and handing them on to our little ones. That was a massive motivation for me, trying to end the patterns with us.
DH has done amazingly the past year especially - seen a trauma specialist, done EMDR, had counselling himself and been with me at couple's counselling talking it all through.
He's heard me say that I don't want words anymore, I want actions, and he's done stuff - brave stuff - to try to be that person.
I think that the cord between us, that I thought he had taken a machete to with the lies, wasn't broken - or if it ever was, then it has somehow mended. He's human, like I am. He's fucked up, like I do, like everyone does.
I still love him, I still fancy him, he loves our kids, he still loves me. We've built a life together that I'm proud of.
I think the more he deals with what happened, the more he's turning into a pretty great role model for our kids. It's part of being human to make massive mistakes, and what matters is what you do after the massive mistake. He's taking responsibility. Honestly, I'm proud of him.
I'm proud of myself too - for not putting all the shit into some 'evil unspeakable ex' basket and wrapping myself in a 'perfect blameless victim' cloak and running away. I've accepted that there are 2 of us making this marriage and part of the distance that developed between us, the carelessness, the not valuing each other, not noticing each other's pain - that was from me, as well as from him.

All of which isn't to say that I'm sure we'll be together for ever, BTW. I have no crystal ball. What I did feel, when the shit hit the fan, was that I COULD leave him/make him leave - I COULD live without him, I could be a single mum, it was a manageable thing for me. That was sort of unthinkable before, and it gives me some strength and confidence to know that.

Anyway, this is a ramble and you might feel it's totally irrelevant. I just wanted to share in case anything is useful to you. You're doing great and I wish you and your DC all the absolute best things. x

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I know exactly how you feel as I've been there, too.

I wondered why she was going to email you. Was she forcing his hand? And he told you - that was because he wanted to stay with you, not be with her? Why on earth didn't he just tell her that and end it? How could he let it get to that stage without her being told he didn't want to be with her?