I really need some objective advice re dd

[stillvicarinatutu]

I'm going to give the back story so no drip feed .

My dd is 25 , and I have a ds , 31.

My dh and I married at 19 and I left him when I was 42.

I had done everything at home , ds had meningitis and later dx with autism , I did 8 weeks alone in hospital, all the medical appointments, all the home admin , childcare, if the kids were ill it was my job to sort , I worked part time too. Dh worked ridiculously unsocial hours and I spent every single night of the marriage alone . Sex was shit and he has ED .

I left him at 42 , my ds had left home , my dd had started university. I was attracted to a man I worked with, but I wouldn't have an affair , I left in January. I started seeing someone else in March. By this time I had battled to get a full time job that paid because dh earned a pittance. I was the breadwinner and had been for 4 years.

I have no doubt this affected dd deeply although at the time I wasn't thinking straight - I was menopausal, restless, bored and sick of everything.

She dropped uni a year later and went home to her dad and the marital home. I was renting .

She was and is angry with me . I got pg with the man I was seeing at 44, dd seemed excited, but the baby had a fatal chromosome disorder and I terminated mid term which was really hard . My then partner was shit and no support. We weren't living together. We stayed together a short time and lived together for a while but he was increasingly abusive and I left .

I've lived alone for 3.5 years.
The problem is my relationship with dd. It's broken . We were extremely close - now it's strained.

She complains to her father that I don't do enough to see her .
Yet if I try , she's busy , if I say can I call , she's busy , if I ask to meet up , she's busy .

The guilt I felt from leaving means I did nothing about divorce or finances . Dd says since I left , I shouldn't get anything. Her father agrees. I paid 21 years of a mortgage, and I've paid 50k of debt off - mine and dhs- it's taken me 6 years. We had separate IVA and I paid both . (He couldn't afford it- I could )
This means he has stayed in the marital home .
He is now seeing another woman - fine - he is 56 and so is she , no plans to live together or marry etc .
I've now said it's time to divorce and sort finances . He's blown up at me - I left - I should have nothing . That's how he feels , and how my kids feel.
I've said I will not force a sale or make him homeless.
I'm looking at alternative solutions including me buying a park home on retirement so he can keep the house . As long as I aren't renting after retirement- I'm happy . I am currently renting .

I've become great friends with my neighbour and we do a lot for each other . We are spending Xmas day together, and going halves on dinner . She's goi g to be alone with her dd who is autistic, I'd be alone , her dd has asked if I can be there and since me and her mum get together every week anyway , for food and wine , we go out for the occasional drink, go shopping together, stuff mates do ! It's lovely . Her dad has virtually adopted me too ! It's nice .

Dd and ds are with their dad for Xmas day - so they were coming to me Boxing Day .

I've got their presents here to give them then .
Dd wanted a second Xmas dinner . That would be quite expensive and my lovely neighbour and friend suggested we do a big shop , go halves , and do a lovely Boxing Day buffet and have it at hers .

So I text dd asking what she thought.

Text back is horrible. Basically dd is saying "we wanted to see you since you never bother , I do t want to see your friend she isn't part of my life , so just forget it we will just come for an hour in the afternoon. "

I've text back - it was just a suggestion- no problem- we do t have to do that , we can stick to Xmas dinner here etc .

No reply then a curt reply saying stop texting me, I have a life you know , I'm out with (boyfriends parents ) .

I text back - are you free for a call later ?

Nothing back .

Her Xmas list consisted of expensive ugg slippers , she's buying a house so I got her a kettle and toaster, towels, personalised photo frame and Xmas bauble , stuff for her car , I've
Got her boyfriend a brew dog gift set , something for his car ,

I've got ds a silver key ring and a luxury travel wallet, and I'll be getting him some other bits this week .

He can't take much back to Asia with him where he lives . He doesn't carry luggage .

I live alone, I barely make ends meet . I've 2 more payments on dh iva then it's done , and 9 more on mine . I've not had my hair done in over a year , I've not my car serviced for 4 years, I shop at Aldi, -
And yet - I'm still the villain . I can buy the uggs etc , but when I dared suggest Boxing Day buffet with neighbour you'd think I'd suggested selling dds first born to the devil himself .
Now it appears she isnt even speaking to me.

I do not know how to heal this.
My own relationship with my mother is NC and has been for 25 years. I do t want that for me and dd - yet I cannot win . Everything I say , everything I suggest, is met with anger. I suggested counselling- nope.
Her dad is the bees knees of course .

Neither of the kids checked on me recently when I had pneumonia. Dd said she thought I was making it up. An ambulance was sent and I was on a nebuliser. They wouldn't come look after my dogs so I could go to hospital.

What the fuck do I do now ? I hate this . I'm constantly apologising. I'm constantly trying . I've asked her what she wants .
She seems to hate me .
I tried to speak with ds about the house etc and he went straight back to his dad and told him - then he said he does t want to be involved- fair enough.

But I cannot win . The only thing that would satisfy them all is if I go away , ask for nothing out of the house , give everything away , go quietly, rent for life , spend my pension on rent and then claim benefits (this is dh"s suggestion when I asked how I rent after retirement. )

I haven't done anything. I've asked nothing. And they are acting like this now - if I do press for some equity I dread to think what happens then . They barely tolerate me now .

I do not know what to do.

Your ex is using your dd to financially rip you off

So I went and joined the specials - for nothing with a view to getting into the police . Never thought I'd do it as no qualifications beyond GCSEs . But as soon as I started working with the police they boosted my confidence, told me I was a natural, encouraged me to apply . So I did . And it took me 18 Mo tha of hoop jumping to get in . But I did it . First time. Scored one of the highest candidates at the assessment centre. So I got in , and I earned the money we'd never had . Then a film crew came to our force - and they filmed a 3 part documentary. And I told dh , and said if you want to see what I do on a daily basis , you could watch this documentary on bbc 2 .

And do you know what he said ?

He said " I'm not that interested to be honest

After what you’ve been through it probably won’t make much difference to you to know this but I for one am extremely impressed by what you’ve achieved.

What do you mean your ex saved you from becoming homeless?

if you mean he let you stay in your former marital home, the one you paid for and own half of. Well yes, he did because he knows it’s half yours and if you’re homeless you would have every right to force a sale of the house and claim half of what is rightfully yours.

your husband is not a nice man. If he were the children would not be so vitriolic towards you.

My DH’s parents are divorced because FIL had an affair and married OW. But everyone is cordial to eachother and neither DC is expected to take sides. FIL also left after DC were young adults, DH was in his first year at university.

When I was 16 I was about to be on the streets, and dh took me in , gave me his bedroom, he slept on the sofa .

And yes again when my last relationship broke down, he was fine with me going back , he was lovely and looked after me , cooked and was kind .

@stillvicarinatutu I really mean this in the gentlest and most supportive way possible: you deserve better than this. Than to live the rest of your life under a burden of guilt and misplaced sense of duty. Please, please, put some work into accessing appropriate therapy ASAP. Even if it costs a bit of money, it’ll be worth it - sliding scale costs are available, and trainee therapists are often very good (up to date with new techniques and research - and usually low cost). I’m not even going to suggest the NHS because the NHS therapy system isn’t fit for purpose.

Your posts here read as though you don’t have much in the way of self esteem. I’m so sad for you, because you’ve overcome many obstacles and you’ve achieved so much despite the barriers you had. You have got loads to be proud of. You’re worth more than to feel eternally indebted to people who don’t treat you well.

What you’ve told us about how hard you worked to get your career … I’m so gutted for you that you didn’t have someone by your side being actively proud of you while you were doing it. I had a crap upbringing, so I didn’t know I deserved to be loved; and I certainly didn’t love myself. In adulthood I had terrible relationships with men who don’t sound dissimilar to your ex. Later, I had therapy which helped me understand why I had ever thought I deserved to be treated like shit. And later still, I had great relationships with wonderful supportive loving partners, partners who would have happily spent one evening watching a documentary about paint drying, if drying paint had been my job. And especially if I had worked really bloody hard to train up and get a job drying paint. I can only imagine how miserable that must have felt, having your efforts and hard work dismissed by someone who was supposed to care about you. It’s not a decent way to treat someone.

Yes, you made mistakes in the past - everyone has. You are flawed - everyone is. You’re also deserving of love and support. Not being walked over. I’m glad you have your neighbour, who it sounds values you for you.

Reading your posts about how sad you are, how you can’t get out of bed on your days off, it’s just heartbreaking, OP. I’ve been there in the past, I’ve been that low too. I’m so sorry you’re in this situation. You deserve better - and it seems like forgiving yourself and coming to terms with whatever guilt you still feel could be the biggest step you can take towards feeling better. (Well, apart from the divorce and getting what you’re entitled to from the sale of the house too, of course!) You already know the wine isn’t going to actually improve anything, so it might be time to book in with your GP to talk about what help is available in your area for that at least.

This time of year is often really hard because of family nonsense, so I hope your plans with your daughter go well. And I hope you can find it in you to take the next steps to becoming happier and more self-assured. All the best, OP.

What happened when you were sixteen that you were about to be on the streets? It must have been a terrible time for you then too. Was your DH that age too, was his family helping?

Enough now.

Time to move on, you only have one life and you need to live yours, otherwise, all of this was for nothing. Is the plan to be utterly wretched and on your knees/gravely ill as some sort of weird martyrdom to atone for past mistakes?

Your DD sounds like she needs to grow up a bit. Be kind, keep the door open, but stop apologising all the blinking time.

Sort out the finances, you need to live too. Time to stand up now.

You sound like my mum, who I'm NC with. Martyr syndrome. Your life is so hard. Nobody does anything for you, you ruined your own life looking after them etc etc. Or at least that's how you come across.

It's bloody hard work to have a positive relationship with anyone who thinks you owe them because they created you and chose to do X and Y when you were a child, but now you are an adult you should come running no matter what. Maybe try and have a conversation with her to hear her side? Without answering back or putting in a defense, just listen initially. I'm sure it would go a long way.

Dh was 21 . No his family weren't involved.
What happened? I was sick of being a punchbag for a step father , sick of being a parent to a younger sibling, sick of being told I was a supercilious little bitch, sick of doing the washing , the cooking, the cleaning, the childcare, sick of a sadistic man who took pleasure in my pain and suffering, whether that was a caning for not eating all the food on my plate or whether it was dragging out every dish and pot in the pantry to wash again because I'd left dried egg on a fork tine, sick of not being allowed out of the house other than for school, sick of being grounded and beaten because I had a black friend who happened to be a boy , sick of not having clothes that fit or bedding on my bed , sick of shivering all night in winter with no sleep , while they drank and smoked and went out , sick of being given a chicken wing at Sunday dinner that I'd prepared while they ate the breast meat , sick of ending up in hospital over and over with broken fingers and concussion, sick of having my earrings ripped out and stood on , the list could go on .
So I left school, and I presented as homeless to the council . And they said I had a home I could go back to . And so it was go back to a life of abuse or try and find a hostel place . There were no places , so I'd have been on the street . I'd met dh as I had a part time Saturday job , but I had to give my money earned from that as my keep to my mother and stepfather and it was only £18 a week anyway . But dh took me in . So yes I've always felt I do owe him something. My kids do not know any of this . They know I am nc .

On a lighter note - to the person who advised to stop asking to ring and just do it - it did - I told dd I would ri g at 8 and I did and she answered. We had a good 30 min chat .

Because math the children would disown me . They know nothing really . And the bit I've tried to tell them just made me look like I was trying to excuse my behaviour while victimising dh .
There is no point I telling them anything. And there's less point in making it worse .

This is you trying to control the situation. You think there must be some key here to the whole situation, some magic formula you have to keep on trying to find, and everything can work out. This is because deep down you blame yourself for all the shitty, awful things other people have done to you all your life.

You think there must be a good reason for all of it. It couldn't possibly be that other people are awful, that your mother chose to abandon you in umpteen ways in favour of her husband because she was a worthless human being and he was mean and selfish and dysfunctional enough to make her choose. You're looking for a rational reason for it all but there isn't one. You didn't make those people mistreat you and you can't make other people treat you well just by being nice, responsible, reliable, and hard working. The way to stop abuse is to stand up for yourself, not apologise and beg for time on the phone.

You need to understand that your children hold you in contempt anyway, and making it worse isn't actually possible. Your ex has poisoned them against you. Until they come to their senses of their own accord you have no hope of any crumbs of affection or respect from them. You are right that there is no point trying to tell the children anything. So you might as well please yourself, secure your own finances, and that way they would at least stop looking at you with contempt.

You have nothing to lose here, @stillvicarinatutu - you think you have because at least you can sometimes talk to your children, but you don't.

You are working to keep a roof over the heads of ungrateful, abusive, contempt-filled people who have no time for you. Do what you need to do to secure your own financial future. Let the children and the ex deal with your reality.

You have no power in this situation as long as you are trying to make people like you, and if these people were decent or kind or appreciated how much you have done for them they would show 100% more respect for you than they do. But they are not decent or kind.

Just because they're not beating the crap out of you doesn't mean they're not abusive. They have smelled weakness on your part and they are not hesitating to kick you when you're down.

Your life as a child was horrendous stillvicar, no wonder you may be depressed. In someways your life as it went on still seems to have left you having to be responsible for everyone else but treated as worthless yourself. It is a shame you found your counselling so useless. Maybe other posters might be able to advise on how to find a counsellor with a better method.

It seems to me as though you already paid back your DH whom you met, when he was an adult and you were a child, by marrying him and then doing all you did for him and your children.

You wouldn’t be robbing him in someway by having your half of your own property. For everyone reading here, it is difficult to work out why you feel you should not have this. Are you worried it would leave you homelesss? What would it leave him with?

I meant to say, “Are you worried it would leave him homeless?”

Yes . Exactly that.

DD is 25, not a child. You can't live her life for her.

Sort out your own ( maybe DD needs a parent to set that example, so she can do the same? )

If you're in England you can now get a no -fault divorce.
DH does not have a choice about sharing your mutual assets; that is your legal right. Get some legal help on that.

Perhaps once you have finally cut loose from a dead marriage, DD will be able to leave the past behind too . She won't be able to play you off against each other as she has been doing.

As for Christmas, have a good one with your nice neighbour.

Dd is a capable , career woman , but I g her first house with her partner , (her house is worth double what mine and dh is !)

From previous messages her resentment stems from her feeling I haven't been there for her over the last 8 years while her dad has .
She feels like I don't know her.
I think all the 'I'm busy" replies that I've taken at face value have been a test to see if I'd persevere.
I didn't realise.
Tonight - just saying "I'm ringing at 8 " without asking or giving a choice worked . We didn't talk about anything other than her and the house , boxing g day plans , work, I think I'm starting to get it a bit .
I've also said when she gets the keys to new place I'll go through , help her paint and decorate etc and I'll take her and her partner out to celebrate. She said she would like that .

She isnt a brat . She really isn't. She's maybe wanting me to step up and what I've done is slink away without a fight . I'm starting to realise she wants me to fight for our relationship. And I will. Because I honestly love her with everything I have . She's very critical but her feelings are valid .
Maybe this will be a better dynamic from now on .

She's maybe wanting me to step up and what I've done is slink away without a fight . I'm starting to realise she wants me to fight for our relationship. And I will. Because I honestly love her with everything I have . She's very critical but her feelings are valid .^
Maybe this will be a better dynamic from now on .

Yes, you have nothing to lose except your self respect if you keep on apologising and asking for permission from her - and also from other people. Please remember always that while your daughter's feelings may be valid, her accusations against you and the eay she takes out her feelings on you are not acceptable, and her feelings about what happened do not constitute a credible account of what happened. You don't have to apologise to her when you validate her feelings. You can tell her you are sorry her feelings have not been addressed, and ask her how you can help her release her resentment.

Can you imagine how respectful of you she would become if you were to stand up for your right to half of the house and to stop behaving as if you are responsible for the welfare of all the adults in your life? Stop apologising. Stop feeling obliged to people who do not respect you, who pissed on your chips and put themselves before you every time they had a choice.

You are caught up in the FOG - Fear, Obligation and Guilt. Only you can fight your own way out of this, and you can only do this when you stop trying to control how other people respond to you. You are trying to control them because you're afraid of other people's anger. You need to rise above your fear or they will always have power over you.

outofthefog.website/toolbox-1/2015/11/17/fog-fear-obligation-guilt

You are caught up in the FOG - Fear, Obligation and Guilt.

If OP is caught up in the FOG, I suspect it's because she is pumping it out.

You're letting your dh walk all over you and benefit financially off you, by working, and sorting the dc and house for the last 13 years, for something he did when you were 16! Come on op, your debt has been well and truly paid where that's concerned.

Start acting like the adult here. I can see you've started telling your dd what you're going to do 'I'm ringing at 8' which is great, you can take this stance with most things.

I'm divorcing you exh and we can either sort the finances out between us, so we both get an equal split, including the house, or we can take it to court.

If your dd gets involved, tell her it's between you and see df, and isn't her concern.

Your ex is using your dd to get his own way. She hasnt supported him, he's been dripping poison in her ear and won't stop, so you might as well ensure you're future is financially secure and you're not giving it away because of some ridiculous favour he did over 20 years ago

stillvicarinatutu · Yesterday 23:03
Re: when you left home aged 16 and DH gave you a place to stay.

What happened? I was sick of being a punchbag for a step father

You did not mention your own father. Vicar, was he alive? If so did he ever help you?

You seem to be a woman who only feels secure if all responsibility for yourself and others is in your hands. Among women I’ve known, that has somehow come about after the sudden loss of their father. It is though they have taken on the traditional role.

stillvicarinatutu· Today 00:23

^ScrollingLeaves · Today 00:16
I meant to say, “Are you worried it would leave him homeless?”^

Yes . Exactly that.

Why would your DH be homeless if you and her divorce and sell the house and split the proceeds? Would there not be enough for you each to get something cheaper?

Re: Your day daughter That’s such good news that you are communicating better with your DD.

They all sound quite manipulative @stillvicarinatutu , it's not like you did something unheard of by separating from someone.

That sounds like a really good sign from your dd, I hope you have a lovely time on Boxing Day, try keeping it light and show an interest as you did on the phone. I know it's tempting but don't bring up the pneumonia. She was really out of order but I would let it drop. If she's as good a kid as you say she probably feels bad.

scrollingleaves

I don't know anything about my father. My mother won't tell me anything.

My father figure was my grandad but when my mother met my stepfather I was y allowed to see my grandparents anymore . They had raised me for 7 years and we lived together.

When my mother met stepfather she moved us out to live with him .

*wasn't allowed that should say .

I'm nc with my mother now and have been for 25 years.
Stepfather died age 52 of a heart attack which does t surprise me one iota since he was always raging about everything . I was nc when he died .

I wonder whether, if you stop acting like you're guilty, your daughter will stop treating you like you're guilty.

As everyone else has said, just get divorced and get an equitable financial settlement. I think that this will be better for everyone in the long run. You will have some financial security. Your ex will know where he stands and be able to plan for the future. Your daughter will be less caught in the middle of you both.

If you can afford it, get therapy or counselling.

stillvicarinatutu · Today 13:02

scrollingleaves

I don't know anything about my father. My mother won't tell me anything.

My father figure was my grandad but when my mother met my stepfather I was y allowed to see my grandparents anymore . They had raised me for 7 years and we lived together.

When my mother met stepfather she moved us out to live with him

That is an unbelievably cruel thing to have done to you and your grandparents, and must effectively have left you bereaved - but in a way that would have no end or closure for you. I am very sorry 💐