Who is in the wrong? Fight in front of DC

[SmashedPots]

I'm going to describe this as factually as possible and want honest opinions

DC (3) still has tantrums. Every morning it's hard to get him ready. He was playing with playdoh and he was half dressed. Before he put his jumper on he said "more playdoh mummy". I had got some out and it was on the side. He did already have some in his hands.

DH comes downstairs to take DC to school. DH says "no more playdoh. We are going now"

Tantrum starts. It's a bad one. DC shouting a lot "more playdoh etc etc"

I say under my breath to DH "he could have just had that playdoh you know. I did get it out for him"

DH shouts "fuck you. Fuck off undermining me like always"

DC stops tantrum as soon as DH shouts at me and starts shouting at DH "stop fighting"

I say "calm down DH. Stop shouting in front of DC"

He keeps shouting

I say "you're less in control of your emotions that DS"

DH grabs the pot of play-doh (which he had put on a high shelf" and throws it really hard at the floor right in front of DS.

I tell DH to get out.

DH shouts "you fucking made this happen. Undermining me as fucking usual. This is your fault."

I haven't raised my voice once but DH tells me I've got that "look on my face"

My poor baby boy.

It lasted 5 mins in total. They have now left and I have to get ready for work with the baby.

Was I undermining? Is this abusive? I can't think straight these days.

Bad reaction from him obviously but you did undermine his parenting which is really also not ok. As others have said books etc better in morning…wht kid would want to give up play doh to get ready to go to school!

I say "calm down DH. Stop shouting in front of DC"

Have you ever found a situation where telling someone to ‘calm down’ has ever made them actually calm down?

Allow him to sleep in longer? He wakes at 5:45, do you not think OP would enjoy a little longer in bed? It's not about her allowing her son to sleep in longer. Good heavens.

Where does it say he isn't disciplined? He has his play-doh as a sensory aid and it sounded like it was working, all he needed was his jumper on. He's 3. Learning to control his emotions, he has the added complexity of ASD. OP sounds like she's doing everything right.

And I can't believe someone called a 3yo with possible ASD petulant. Just unbelievable how far women will go to excuse abusive men.

But he undermined OP! She had said playdoh was fine, he then countermanded that. And then behaved like an aggressive arse. Yanbu.

Nobody chooses to wake their kids up at 5.45 just so they can play, 😂

@SmashedPots I'd talk to him tonight, and see if he really in contrite. He needs to apologise to DS too for shouting and you need to agree a plan going forward.

Can you leave baby upstairs for DH to and him bring her down for breakfast? That way everyone is up and helping.

Is he willing to get help for his anger?

My worry splitting would be would he want shared custody? Would he cope when he had them alone? Which is a shit trap to be in

Honestly you think she’s waking her child at 5.45am? 😂
As you have ASD yourself you know that everyone with ASD is different and the same approach doesn’t work for all. My ASD 3 year old gets up at 5am. You think I wouldn’t want to sleep in a bit longer? 🤣

Sorry, just read the comments about DH not helping as agreed. Thats the major issue here. Unless he is willing to step up and parent he has zero right to question your parenting. Crossroads here now. He should be made to apologize for his outburst to you and you DS and then agree to help parent your children.

If he does this, i think its reasonable to look at not questioning each others attempts to parent in a us and them manner but first he needs to join the party or get out.

The child is 3 and the OP is also trying to get ready for work and get the baby ready. It's not as if she's going to have time to sit down and read him a pile of stories. He can presumably do play doh on his own with some supervision, while the OP runs about like a headless chicken getting everyone sorted and her "D"H snoozes upstairs.

Please post in relationships. AIBU posters will tie themselves in knots to say that you're wrong. Plus most of them have forgotten what it's like to have toddlers.
Playdough before nursery clearly isn't the issue here people?! My littles had Playdough this morning and we got out of the door fine.

The constant tantrums are hard. But raising his voice at you is completely unacceptable, in front of the kids or no. Throwing things in rage is completely unacceptable. If these things are frequently occurring I would call that emotional abuse.

Op was the one parenting, he whoosed in and tried to rush DS out and take over. If he'd bothered to get his arse downstairs to help look after his TWO kids he'd have been aware of what was going on.
OP has also said the play doh was working and does work. As a fidget style self soother, books don't work the same esp if you can't read!

"DH shouts "you fucking made this happen. Undermining me as fucking usual. This is your fault."
I haven't raised my voice once but DH tells me I've got that "look on my face"

This is litteraly the language of abuse, this is the script of DV.

So you're saying OP should denigrate herself and her own decisions in front of the DC, even when her method was working fine? That it's alright for DH to swan in at the last minute undermine her decisions, but she's not allowed to point out (out of DC's hearing) that that's what's he's done?

All the children are going to learn from that is that Daddy's word is more important than mummy's.

Saying he is crying at work is an attempt to emotionally manipulate you into saying its OK because he knows he has crossed a line with his behaviour.

Doesn't matter if you have ASD or not pinning a child down to get them dressed is completely wrong, I'm all for doing things that are in children's best interests but they may not agree with such a vaccinations but that is about proportionality.

If you pin a child down you are teaching them that is is okay for the people they love and trust to step over and ignore their boundaries.

You could also quite easily injure them if they are having a full blown melt down. How would OP husband feel if he broke his DS arm.

I sympathise OP I've spent many a morning with DD over coming melt downs around clothing and getting dressed and been an hour late for school and work a few times as a result.

Completely agree. The OP isn't an unpaid nanny (and not many people would treat a paid nanny this way either). She's the default parent who is doing most of the heavy lifting so until he gets on board and does his share, she should crack on and do things her way and he needs to butt out.

The DC can either hold play dough in his hand and get dressed calmly or be pinned down and forced to get dressed. I know which method I would prefer on a regular basis.

Your H shouted, swore, and threw an object at the floor, hard, directly in front of a small child. None of those are acceptable behaviours from an adult and they are designed to intimidate. That is abusive behaviour.

Quietly (so child wouldn't heard) voicing disagreement with your H is NOT abuse. It may have felt very frustrating to him and perhaps it is a larger pattern of undermining him. But it was not designed to intimidate him. As a matter of fact, you could argue that he undermined you first by taking the playdoh away (when you were using it as the HV advised) and disrupting what you were doing with your DS--though I don't think getting into that kind of tit for tat argument is productive and is a distraction from the bigger issue, which is that one adult should not be intimidating the children and other adult in the household by shouting, swearing, and throwing objects.

Famously, not every person with ASD is the same. So while being pinned down to be dressed and having your fidget object taken away so you can keep to a rigid schedule might work for some individuals, it doesn't sound like it necessarily works very well for your son.

OP, do you have anyone IRL to talk to about this? The HV, your GP, a friend or family member, Women's Aid? I'm not saying you have to make any big scary decisions right now, but it sounds like you could do with some support and perspective if your H is behaving intimidatingly and yet you are the one questioning if you are abusive (this is really common BTW).

This 100000%. Not that you can just rule out ASD, but with a child of that age, it's very difficult to know exactly what's what.

OP, I agree with a PP that you should ask for this thread to be moved to the relationships board as it isn't one for the keyboard AIBU warriors.

For those who say the OP undermined her husband: he undermined her by coming in and throwing his weight around without finding out what she had already been doing/saying. He's now crying - so he's now making it all about him. It is about him, but not in the way he thinks it is.

And, yes, please post this in Relationships. There is lots of clearheaded support for people who are being abused there.

This is exactly what I was thinking. I don't understand why everyone is saying you undermined him when it seems so obviously the other way around.

NT three year olds would struggle to be barked at and drop what they're doing like that, let alone your little boy.

Even if he did think you undermined him, his reaction was so disproportionate and extreme that's it's irrelevant. Your little boy must have been scared and you too. I think you're right to be considering the longer term implications of this.

Your husband is abusive. I dont care what anyone else here says. He yells at you because of "that look on your face" after hes undermined the parenting you find works for you to manage 2 kids in the morning while hes in bed. He PINS YOUR 3 YEAR OLD DOWN, i dont care if that is to get his clothes on or not, hes 3 and your husband is using his physical strength to overwhelm him. No wonder your baby is tantrumming.
My boy is Autistic too. It can be tough. We often disagree about the best approach with him but we talk it through. Never once has my husband yelled at me. And ignore those idiots going on about playdough before school. You're doing well to not have whiskey before school with all you're coping with at the moment.

@JennyNotFromTheBlock you have ASD and you advocate pinning a child down in order to get them dressed? When OP has a fully functioning routine that doesn't involve actual violence? Wow.

So many handmaidens on this thread excusing a lazy bullying man.

. My ex was pretty toxic and him speaking to me like I was a piece of shit in front of DC (who responded similar to yours) was the beginning of the end!

You’re giving DH an out in the mornings. I’d go up at 7 with the baby and hand them over.

would it help if you got DS dresses first when you have more time and it doesn’t feel stressful. Then he is effectively ready to go. I find mornings run smoother when the have to dos are done first.

I can't believe how many posters are focusing on all the tiny details and saying you the one in the wrong here, op. I would step away from this thread and repost in Relationships, including all the additional info about DS' ASD assessment, the fact that you're putting all the research/effort in to try and come up with systems to help your DS (and your DH doing sod all to help you full stop).

Lots of people ignoring the fact that he actually undermined YOU, as you were in the process of getting your DS ready using a routine that you know works, and your DH came swanning in, took over and undermined YOUR decisions.

I imagine his complaint about you 'always fucking undermining me' is not a result of you actually undermining him, but you trying to mitigate the impact of his harsh, 1950s-style parenting on your non-NT DS.

My husband would never talk to me like that in a million years, let alone throw stuff right in front of our child. It's unforgivable and I can't believe how many posters on here are excusing it - it's a complete 180 to other threads I've seen on here where even the slightest hint of verbal or physical violence from a man is an instant LTB.

He's abusive, he doesn't understand your DS (and won't try to) and he gives you no help whatsoever with either of your children. He swears and shouts at you, throws stuff in rage in front of your children and lies in bed while you're downstairs getting both of them ready for work.

What exactly are you getting out of this situation? The fact that you're even questioning whether you're the one in the wrong makes it clear he's grinding down your self confidence.

Pinning him down isn't OK. He absolutely freaks out. Ends up trashing the house. And he takes all his clothes off again anyway. My way takes more time but we get there.

This is the worst DH has ever been. He's shouted a lot at me when frustrated with DS. Because he seems to think its my fault. But the health visitor said how much improved DS is when she came over last week. She literally said "whatever you're doing keep doing" me and DS trust each other. It might look stupid to other people.

Maybe DH feels cut out or something. He just doesn't have the patience for it all.

I'll talk to him tonight. He does actually agree shouting etc is really not good and we can agree on stuff but then when the moment comes DH seems to make the meltdown worse. I don't know.