Who is in the wrong? Fight in front of DC

[SmashedPots]

I'm going to describe this as factually as possible and want honest opinions

DC (3) still has tantrums. Every morning it's hard to get him ready. He was playing with playdoh and he was half dressed. Before he put his jumper on he said "more playdoh mummy". I had got some out and it was on the side. He did already have some in his hands.

DH comes downstairs to take DC to school. DH says "no more playdoh. We are going now"

Tantrum starts. It's a bad one. DC shouting a lot "more playdoh etc etc"

I say under my breath to DH "he could have just had that playdoh you know. I did get it out for him"

DH shouts "fuck you. Fuck off undermining me like always"

DC stops tantrum as soon as DH shouts at me and starts shouting at DH "stop fighting"

I say "calm down DH. Stop shouting in front of DC"

He keeps shouting

I say "you're less in control of your emotions that DS"

DH grabs the pot of play-doh (which he had put on a high shelf" and throws it really hard at the floor right in front of DS.

I tell DH to get out.

DH shouts "you fucking made this happen. Undermining me as fucking usual. This is your fault."

I haven't raised my voice once but DH tells me I've got that "look on my face"

My poor baby boy.

It lasted 5 mins in total. They have now left and I have to get ready for work with the baby.

Was I undermining? Is this abusive? I can't think straight these days.

Shouting, swearing and throwing an object towards his 3yo isn't abusive?

Maybe he should have got out of bed and actually done some parenting, then his 3yo may have had his jumper on.

I honestly despair.

It sounds like your husband created the entire situation by wading into a process that was working well and demanding it was done his way. He undermined you. It may not have been the best time to point out what he did wrong, but it didn't warrant his response.

Assuming his reaction was out of character, then if your process is creating problems for him, he needs to talk to you about it and work out another way. And ideally be involved in the morning routine.

Hopefully the OTT and antagonistic posts haven't scared you off OP. The vast majority of us are here to support you

Your DH's behaviour was unacceptable. He needs to help more in the morning and not just appear and throw his weight around. If he cannot control his temper then he needs to get help or leave as it is not safe for the kids and you if this is how he reacts each time something doesn't go his way. Also he was undermining your system of getting DS ready by just walking in and laying down rules that don't work with DS. He needs to be reading and educating himself about ASD so that he can be there for his child and support you as the main carer. It will help him understand.

With regard to DS and playdough, my youngest has ASD and I would say try to work on a first and then basis, first you put this piece of clothing on then playdough possibly with a visual timetable to reinforce. Also if DS has to leave by a certain time then he needs to be on some sort of visual timer system to give him a countdown to stopping playing and being ready to go. Learning Resources time tracker is quite good.

Was I undermining?

yes, you absolutely were.

There is clearly more to this than this one incident though. Why does he think you are "always" undermining him? His reaction was extreme (and you say he realises this)

It was time for them to go to school, of course he shouldn't have had more play dough.

I have said to DH before that its a lot for me to get both kids and myself ready. He agreed and said he would come down at 7 so he can help but he has never done it. I let DS have playdoh to keep him busy while making the baby porridge. He had it in his hands and was using it a stress ball almost while I then got him dressed. Honestly I don't understand why playdoh is such a bad idea before school. I need tools to help me in the morning.

DH tries to get DS ready but he can't do it so he tries to force the clothes onto DS which causes a huge meltdown. Like pins him to the ground. I won't have that. So DH said fine I'll come downstairs at 7 and take the baby off you at least but he doesn't do that either.

And you need to insist he gets up and comes down to help earlier.

All of this

He shouted "fuck you".

For me that's never acceptable.

He needs to fuck off!

Wow. This one takes the biscuit.

What should the OP allow her 3yo to do for 2 hours of a morning? No playing?! Seriously. Did you miss where the child is being assessed for ASD and the play-doh is a sensory need?

As people have said, if anything her husband did the undermining when he came in and began throwing his weight around. He then became abusive, there is never an excuse for that kind of behaviour.

First I would wonder if your DH also has ASD - not as an excuse for his appalling behaviour but because his thinking has that rigidity. It's time to go so now we must go, no chance of 2 minutes more playdough. Pretty poor emotional control as well which is not unusual and ASD tends to run in families.

DS needs time warnings - vital, vital, vital to avoid meltdowns. 'We're going to be leaving in 10 minutes/5 minute/2minutes (do several warnings) so you need to finish off what you are doing with the play dough' I promise this will make all the difference, with ASD you need that time to mentally move from one activity to another. This difficulty with transitions is definitely something to mention at assessment.

You need to talk to your DH about his behaviour and about DS's needs - but he might struggle to put himself in ds's shoes if he does also have ASD. He can't continue to behave like this around ds though - what is ds learning from all this, it's going to be very distressing and confusing for him.

I think you could do with a therapist to talk all this through OP, I think you have your hands full here and need some support yourself.

It sounds as if the Playdoh is a sensory thing that keeps your DS calm so that the morning routine flows. As such it is not a hindrance, it is a key part of the routine and one of the things that makes it work. Your husband should respect that and work with it.

As it is, he has is extra time in bed and then barges in and tramples all over the routine, then give you abuse when you mention it (and how many times have you bitten your tongue and not mentioned it?)

You need to have a serious come to Jesus talk with this man - either he gets on board with your son's needs and routine or he fucks off and can pay maintenance.

Can you tell I had one of those authoritarian idiots who was not interested in learning a damn thing about parenting?

Does he, generally, feel undermined by you? Do you often override his parenting?

Was it your DH taking him to preschool?

It sounds like he lost his shit, which obviously isn't ok. But if he needed to leave with your DS and you tend to undermine him I can understand why he was annoyed.

I agree with you. There was no need for him to be heavy handed like that. You need to tell him this and get him to think about how he carries himself around the children and ask that he either helps to maintain the calm, quiet, happy environment you’re fostering with your DS, or he keeps quiet. He’s not to barge in and be overbearing.

It’s good that he apologised.

He's abusive. Ignore his crocodile tears. Call preschool and ask how ds is doing. And explain why you are checking. That his daddy shouted and swore at him and threw something at him. 😢

I can't believe some of the replies on here!! Perhaps post a thread in the relationships topic for advice and to talk things through. Your gut is right. Listen to it.

I do the count downs. Got an egg timer. I do now and next boards. I printed pics of school and the car etc. I talk to him about what the day looks like all morning. Thank you for all the advice. I do try and do all that stuff. When the health visitor said about ASD referral I bought some books and joined FB groups and I'm trying my absolute best. DH just gets annoyed and says I'm pandering. But DH was more of control than my DS. I've spent months talking to DS about not throwing things when he's angry and then boom...DH throws a pot of playdoh with his full strength right in front of him

Wait, wait, wait... to everyone saying you undermined him, no, HE undermined YOU first, as you had already let DS have the playdough, and DH came in and undermined that decision.

One off incident, your DH has reacted really badly and as you say, has less control over his emotions than his 3yr old DS

However your post does hint at a historic record of incidents where you continually put him in this position. Others have pointed out how stupid giving a petulant 3yr old play doh before school is. You also mention the child isnt properly dressed, ready for school. Could it be the case that you are causing a us & him situation all the time where he is acting responsibly and he is at the end of his tether? He tried to deal with it maturely

DH comes downstairs to take DC to school. DH says "no more playdoh. We are going now"
Tantrum starts. It's a bad one. DC shouting a lot "more playdoh etc etc"
I say under my breath to DH "he could have just had that playdoh you know. I did get it out for him"

If your response had been

"You know, DH is right, put it away for later"

Or

"You know what that was silly of me to get it out"

DC sees that you are working together. Isnt working one parent against the other and noone has a stupid explosion. Works both ways though. DH has to support you too

Perhaps she should let the DS sleep in longer and not get him up so early if he has 2 hours to wait to go to school. And I know what ASD is, I have it, but even kids with ASD still need boundaries and discipline. In fact, even more so due to their condition.

No she absolutely wasn't. He undermined her is anything.

There were reasons for the play-doh being given and if he disagrees he needs to start contributing in the mornings. But apparently lying in bed is more of a priority to him.

@JennyNotFromTheBlock I obviously don't wake DS up at 5.45am! That's what time he wakes up. I would love us all to sleep in until 7!

What is the marriage like normally? Does he shout and swear a lot? Because if he does your 3 yo might be showing you symptoms of anxiety and not ASD.

🤣🤣

You think she's waking her son at 5:45?!

So he pins him down to dress him? Whatever works, especially with kids with ASD. Just because he has a different method for getting him dressed doesn't make him wrong, OP.

DH just gets annoyed and says I'm pandering.

You are. He's right. I say this as someone who has ASD, and was formally diagnosed in my 30s. And I can understand why he's reluctant to help if the way he does things is 'wrong' in your eyes.

So DH said fine I'll come downstairs at 7 and take the baby off you at least but he doesn't do that either.

So why don't you call him down and say "darling, are you up yet? I've got my hands full with DS, and the baby's ready for you to get him/her dressed"

And if the answer is you're worried about how he'd react, then you probably already know what we're going to say...