Who is in the wrong? Fight in front of DC

[SmashedPots]

I'm going to describe this as factually as possible and want honest opinions

DC (3) still has tantrums. Every morning it's hard to get him ready. He was playing with playdoh and he was half dressed. Before he put his jumper on he said "more playdoh mummy". I had got some out and it was on the side. He did already have some in his hands.

DH comes downstairs to take DC to school. DH says "no more playdoh. We are going now"

Tantrum starts. It's a bad one. DC shouting a lot "more playdoh etc etc"

I say under my breath to DH "he could have just had that playdoh you know. I did get it out for him"

DH shouts "fuck you. Fuck off undermining me like always"

DC stops tantrum as soon as DH shouts at me and starts shouting at DH "stop fighting"

I say "calm down DH. Stop shouting in front of DC"

He keeps shouting

I say "you're less in control of your emotions that DS"

DH grabs the pot of play-doh (which he had put on a high shelf" and throws it really hard at the floor right in front of DS.

I tell DH to get out.

DH shouts "you fucking made this happen. Undermining me as fucking usual. This is your fault."

I haven't raised my voice once but DH tells me I've got that "look on my face"

My poor baby boy.

It lasted 5 mins in total. They have now left and I have to get ready for work with the baby.

Was I undermining? Is this abusive? I can't think straight these days.

He should have lost it in front of your child but not everything men do is abusive ffs. He wanted to take the child to school. It wasn't playdoh time. You shouldn't be encouraging a half dressed toddler do the opposite to what his dad says. I'm not surprised he feels you undermine him.

He undermined you - you'd already got the playdough out (did your DS know that? I expect he saw), and then your DP waded in and said no, changing the expectation that had been set with your DS, and starting the tantrum.

Now I agree that playdough in the morning doesn't sound like a great plan, and playdough in the car an even worse one, but your DP sparked the tantrum, dealt with it extremely poorly (violently even) and then blamed you for it all.

I havent minimised anything, I have said in my first reply his behaviour was ridiculous.

Your dh needs playdough or a stress toy, too. I am pretty certain he has ASD and your ds has inherited it from him (it is an inherited condition after all). Your dh must get equally stressed if his idea of morning routine is disturbed as your ds (especially if he was never diagnosed and never had any intervention or chance to reflect on his way of thinking and feeling). ASD doesn't pop up spontaneously. Best way to help your ds is to help those who passed on the genes to him, too, to create the calm environment and self reflection people on the spectrum need to cope.

@Notanotherone6 so why doesn’t he do the morning routine if he doesn’t like what OP does?

It's pretty obvious that both of you behaved horribly and in a way that was deeply frightening and unpleasant for your very young children to witness> It's obvious that your husband's behaviour would have been more frightening and upsetting for your children, but you also helped to create and ramp up the tension and worsen the situation

Absolutely ignore all and any comments like this and the crazy amount of those victim blaming, going on about the playdoh, and voting YABU. You’re not.

It would not be a huge surprise for you to be frustrated and annoyed with your DH if you’re the one up early every morning with your DC.

What is possible is that a) your justified resentment at your DHs behaviour is being expressed in muttered comments rather than directly expressed and b) your DH is also ASD, which may manifest itself as being oblivious to your emotional states and overly focused on his. It’s also possible that b) makes a) much harder.

Good luck discussing the situation with your DH. It sounds stressful for everyone. You need to be able to assert your needs when the DC aren’t around and there’s space for a conversation, but crucially your DH needs to have insight or recognition into his own behaviour.

Screaming swearing and throwing things IS abusive.
Full stop.

I am sorry this thread is full of odd posts that seem to have not read your op. I am not entirely sure what is going on here today. I hope it is not further damaging you op.

If you say you're thinking about leaving him then I assume this isn't an isloated incident. Was your DH ok before the tantrums became a constant in your lives?

The occasional narky comment is part and parcel of a long-term relationship, especially when you're sleep-deprived and dealing with young children. Yes, it might be better to keep quiet, smile sunnily and stroke each other's egos but, let's face it, none of us are perfect and sometimes we've run out of patience. This is fairly normal behaviour.

Shouting, swearing and throwing things is not normal. It is abusive.

So I don't know why some people are saying that you're both to blame here. If my DH rolled in at 7.30 after I'd been up with DC for 2 hours already and started laying down the law and throwing his weight around, I would have said a lot worse than you did.

I shouldn't have said it but the health visitor has been out to help with DS and she said let him have things that keep him calm like fidget things. Playdoh was helping me and him get ready.

Understand that, but there are soo many alternatives for fidget/sensory objects that don’t have the problems of Playdoh. Seriously, giving any child Playdoh while they are finishing getting dressed ready to head out the door is beyond head scratching and if I saw that, and then had to be the bad guy getting it off them, I would have thought it was an extreme batshit parenting moment and called it.

However, calling it doesn’t mean losing it and smashing the can of Playdoh down and screaming etc. You didn’t help by making an extremely PA remark under your breath to rile your DH while making sure you remained the good guy in front of your son while DH had to wrestle the Playdoh off him in order to get out the door so you need to own that. Still no excuse for the screaming and smashing the can of Playdoh etc though.

Maybe her husband should have kept the child amused for 2 hours before it was time to leave, and also got everyone to leave the house, then?
Honestly I am gobsmacked that anyone is trying to justify his behaviour. The OP got up at 5.45am with a probably ASD 3 year old and a baby, fed them, kept them amused, got them dressed and ready. The DH came down after his lie in (and getting himself ready in peace) and started yelling.

Both. You were undermining and enabling your son's behaviour and it sounds like he needs discipline, also that playing in the morning makes him over-stimulated as it does most children so there should be no playing in the mornings before pre school. Your husband was also abusive but it sounds like frustration from you spoiling/enabling your son and your DH is trying to discipline him while you let DS run the show. It also sounds though like your DH needs to step up and help you more. I think you were/are both at fault, I'm sure how you fix it though.

I honestly can't believe some of the responses here. A man who lies in bed for two hours while OP gets herself and two children ready comes in, shouts, swears, throws things, and SHE'S in the wrong??

OP, he sounds hateful, and absolutely terrifying. No one who behaved like that in front of my children would ever come near them again.

I hope you're OK. Trust your instincts. He is a nasty piece of work. You and your lovely children deserve better.

DH needs to really reflect on this. Not the argument- we all have those but his loss of control and actions whilst frustrated.

We had a very tricky child and when he was about the same age he was pulling some stunt and DH lost his temper and di something that could have hurt our child (didn’t but could have). I later told him that if he ever did something similar I would call the police and I meant it. That really shocked him badly and nothing like that ever happened again.

You two need a serious talk, not a tit for tat I said you said but a real conversation about improving your family life. He needs to learn about anger management and also strategies for parenting awkward kids. I personally wouldn’t be happy with your morning set up but that’s another issue although I guess.

Lastly, while being consistent and united in parenting it’s inevitable that there will be differences and sometimes you’ll need to hold your tongue if he makes decisions that are different to yours.

I wish you well. Tell him this can never happen again and mean it.

What would you do with a child for 2 hours before pre school then if they’re not allowed to ‘play’? Sit them in front of the TV?

DH reaction seems really extreme but his frustration is understandable to a degree. Not sure undermining is the right word but certainly you don't seem to be on the same page re getting DC ready for school in mornings. Right at the time when you knew DH would be about to come downstairs to get DC out of the door for school, he isn't even dressed properly yet and you are giving him even more play dough right knowing full well that he is prone to enormous meltdowns. I can understand why he may feel undermined but i think you really do need to work together on the task of getting DC out of the door rather than against each other when it is already difficult enough as it is. This seems quite avoidable. Yes i have a DD prone to extreme meltdowns who needs managing carefully. No i don't give her more fun things to play with just as her dad is about to go out the door for school first thing in the morning because we are on the same page and work together to get her out the door with the least reaction.

@JennyNotFromTheBlock it looks like the play dough actually calms the DS not over stimulates. With a child with possible ASD I assume you use what works for your child.

What do you suggest the OP does for the 2 hours before pre school when the DS is awake. Ignore him like his dad does and expect him to get ready by himself

NellyBarney Stop making excuses for an abusive man. It's quite an assumption that he has ASD and yes, it can just "pop up". And even if he does have ASD, he can still be abusive. It isn't a free pass. Most likely though he's just your bog standard abusive man.

Have you even bothered to read OP's posts?

She acknowledges she played a part (though many of us disagree), the play-doh is used as an aid to help her child. The husband just rocked up and starts laying down the law, without thinking what's best for his child. Then because OP dared challenge him, he turns into an abusive arsehole. He's now admitted he was in the wrong, apologised and is crying, yet people still want to make this OP's fault.

Also, what am I missing, what's the big deal with play-doh before pre-school? Especially when it helps.

@RhondaD DH’s contribution to the morning routine is basically going out of the door. If he doesn’t like what OP does he needs to get up and be part of the routine

I think you should listen to your gut. We all lose our tempers but throwing things and behaving aggressively in front of a three year old isn’t ok.

You didn’t do anything wrong, you were just advocating for your dc.

You were undermining and enabling your son's behaviour and it sounds like he needs discipline

He's 3 - he needs strategic discipline, to be guided into correct behaviour, not just butting heads until he (or apparently the father) starts screaming.

also that playing in the morning makes him over-stimulated as it does most children so there should be no playing in the mornings before pre school.

What on earth are they supposed to do for 2 hours? I have 2 kids who like to be up at 6am before we leave at 7:30. They hate feeling rushed, they like to have some time to eat a leisurely breakfast, and yes, play, before the school day starts - it's not overstimulating if they find it relaxing/calming!

How often does DH lose his temper like this? Was it a complete one off, or a repeated pattern of behaviour?

It sounds like he feels that you do undermine him, it is easily done, but you need to sit down and talk about why he feels like that, with him giving examples.

His behaviour was out of order , but it does not mean that he is an abusive person if it is a one off incident. Only you know how he normally reacts to things. If he constantly loses his temper and his behaviour is escalating then yes, you have something to worry about.

Perhaps he could be responsible for getting DS ready every morning, without any help from you, then he will be in full control of the situation and you will have less to do.

Sounds to me like and exhausted mother trying her best to deal with those 2 hours in the morning where she's responsible for getting her child ready, keeping them calm, feeding them etc whilst also trying not to piss off her volatile husband.

Also, what am I missing, what's the big deal with play-doh before pre-school? Especially when it helps.

If it helps and she doesn't mind then no problem - I'm just thinking of my kids, and how they are not allowed any kind of putty/dough/slime or bloody kinetic sand in the house because it always ends up getting stuck into some kind of soft furnishing.