Who is in the wrong? Fight in front of DC

[SmashedPots]

I'm going to describe this as factually as possible and want honest opinions

DC (3) still has tantrums. Every morning it's hard to get him ready. He was playing with playdoh and he was half dressed. Before he put his jumper on he said "more playdoh mummy". I had got some out and it was on the side. He did already have some in his hands.

DH comes downstairs to take DC to school. DH says "no more playdoh. We are going now"

Tantrum starts. It's a bad one. DC shouting a lot "more playdoh etc etc"

I say under my breath to DH "he could have just had that playdoh you know. I did get it out for him"

DH shouts "fuck you. Fuck off undermining me like always"

DC stops tantrum as soon as DH shouts at me and starts shouting at DH "stop fighting"

I say "calm down DH. Stop shouting in front of DC"

He keeps shouting

I say "you're less in control of your emotions that DS"

DH grabs the pot of play-doh (which he had put on a high shelf" and throws it really hard at the floor right in front of DS.

I tell DH to get out.

DH shouts "you fucking made this happen. Undermining me as fucking usual. This is your fault."

I haven't raised my voice once but DH tells me I've got that "look on my face"

My poor baby boy.

It lasted 5 mins in total. They have now left and I have to get ready for work with the baby.

Was I undermining? Is this abusive? I can't think straight these days.

This completely

@Enko @ExplainUnderstand His reaction is way OTT, but if he gets undermined regularly, I can see how he might reach breaking point at a time when everyone's under pressure to get out the door.

Reaching breaking point? Breaking point when he goes to be at 10pm and sleeps soundly until 7am - while I do every night wake, every nightmare and get up at 5.30am every morning??

He doesn't get undermined regularly because he doesn't help out enough to get undermined.

He made me feel like I was being unreasonable and said to me that it was me who made him angry, me who caused him to throw stuff and swear and shout, and i was really doubting myself yesterday morning on the way to work.

But i can safely say after support on here, talking to women's aid, and generally getting my shit together over the last couple of days - your words are bouncing off me - he didn't get undermined, and even if he did - his reaction wasn't "OTT" - it was scary, and nasty, and my little boy was very upset by it. So I don't really give one solitary shit if my DH's ego was a little bruised by me disagreeing with his approach to be honest.

@Enko This fascinates me - are you responding like this because you haven't read the OP's post about her son's additional needs?
If not, why do you think allowing a child sensory regulation is ridiculous, and how is a quiet comment (under breath directly to DH) undermining him?

Getting the playdoh pot down from where he'd put it and throwing it at/in front of the child's feet is abusive behaviour - if someone punches a wall in front of you when angry with you, they're telling you they want to punch you. He's showing the OP that he wants to be violent to their child. A slightly annoyed/passive aggressive comment from OP (at worst reading) does not justify that. It's not like she said "Ignore Daddy, do whatever you like". Even then, a violent response isn't appropriate. We're talking about a ND 3yo, and him swanning in at the last second and changing the rules. If anything, he undermined her.

Well said, op, and glad you've spoken to Women's Aid.

Well done reaching out to Women's Aid. Your anger and your need to protect your son are shining through now. And yes, you're in for a tough time but honestly, life without an abusive man is so much better.

Have you read her other posts?

Her DS needs the sensory calming of playdoh.

And if her H wants the mornings different he can bloody well get up and help can't he? Rather than swanning down at the last minute and expecting all ready and waiting for him

@VforVienetta
I dont think either of the parents behaved well I do 100% believe that the op undermined her under-the-breath words basically was " I know better than you" instead of backing her partner up and later having a conversation about if they will have playdoh out in the morning and how they will deal with it if not. having a united front and a joint parenting experience.

I do not agree with what the guy did either however if every time he makes a decision ("no more playdoh. We are going now") op decides his decision is not correct and " under her breath over-parents him" then yes I can understand that he may snap.

I have never understood why anyone thinks it is a good idea to say " calm down" to someone who is upset and feeling aggrieved the ONLY thing you managed to do there is to make the person feel even more annoyed. then going on to say ""you're less in control of your emotions than DS" really will not make her partner feel he has any level of communication with his partner.

I do not agree he should have shouted and I do not agree he should have thrown the playdoh on the floor in front of the child.

However, I do 100% believe that op undermined him. Does this make the guy an ideal partner ? No off course not Just it is not that black and white. I do not however think op will want to hear that she was not 100% in the right and by the looks of this thread she has plenty of people who will back her up so she will ignore what I said. Her choice. however she also chose to post on AIBU and yes I think she was and I would have been deeply unhappy if my dh had done to me what she did to him

As your husband does bugger-all now do you think he'd want to have your children on his own?

If you want support and advice on here in future, try the SEN and Relationship boards. You stand a better chance of being heard and helped.

Good luck

@SmashedPots is your DH open to a diagnosis for DS? Be that asd,anxiety or something else?

Does he listen to the HV when she recommends things?

Will he be open to a parenting course or at least read study/courses about ASD, behaviour management, therapeutic parenting etc? There are a lot of free resources online and courses on Open uni.

Will he respect the authority/opinion of a professional ?

Given what I read I don't think he can be a good husband to you, but maybe with education and understanding he could become a better father. Which would either put your mind at ease for some contact, or at least make the next few years a bit more bearable if you decide to stay.

@enko I think the bit you're missing here is that on this occasion she did know better than him, and his behaviour was inappropriate. He directly caused a meltdown, which is no small tantrum, it's a major event that exhausts both the child and parents.
Disagreeing with your partner and telling them why doesn't equal undermining, and if he's got a habit of turning up last minute and laying down the law (thus causing meltdowns) she does need to speak up.
The priority is managing her son's behaviour during a stressful time of day, not mollycoddling a grown man who isn't paying attention to his child's needs.
Also, OP did admit she didn't think she was perfect in a later post - "[...]I'll take irritating or didn't pick my moment[...]"

I really, really feel for you. My ex husband was also good with babies, and showed no sign of this behaviour before we had children. Honestly, my only fear was about the DC being with him without me being there to protect them. If I'd have known that this wouldn't have happened (in other words if I'd known enough about emotional and psychological abuse to know that there were people and organisations who could have supported me to ensure that this couldn't happen), I'd have left sooner. He would have fought tooth and nail for ongoing contact. The children are now all adults and have either very low contact or no contact with him. I wish you and your little boy well, whatever you decide to do.

Truth be told op, he sounds frustrated from you possibly undermining him in the past also ? He was wrong for losing his temper in front of DC but sometimes people react unpleasant when they have had enough. I can speak from experience. I think you both need to try and be a team and not trying to score points against what parent has the last say. I think you were both in the wrong for different reasons.

@Freshmind001 how much say should a 'dad' have who suddenly appears for 5 minutes of parenting before he needs to leave in the morning. What parenting is he actually doing that can be undermined?

@Enko By saying "no more Playdough" when OP was the one who'd given DS the Playdough, DH was undermining OP. So unless you think it's OK for a husband to undermine his wife but not the other way around then the whole premise of your argument is out.

I can't comment on what parenting he does because I don't know I'm not there. I am just commenting from OP's first post. He snapped at her and make reference to always being undermined, which made me think what else has happened for him to say that. I do think maybe playdough before say may not have been a good idea but also losing your shit is also not good so both in my eyes are wrong here.

@Freshmind001 if you're commenting on a thread this long, the very least you can do is read all OP's posts.

This. But its completely understandable.
I would sit down with DH and listen to what he says, and he listen to what you say. if he has any gumption about it he will see that his behaviour was totally unacceptable and disproportionate to the situation. But please also listen to him.
Work out a routine that you're going to stick to in the morning. Personally I wouldn't allow toys / TV / devices in the morning until the children are fully ready for school / nursery. Introduce a sand timer so your ds can see how much time he has left til he needs to get in the car - its a great way to help them become more aware of the passing of time.

@Soontobe60 when you have a SEN child what you are suggesting is ridiculous, especially one that gets up at 5.30 and is only 3.

Well said

Totally agree.

I'm astounded at all the people posting that OP must be undermining him all the time, based on his say so. I guess they are lucky enough not to have experienced an abusive man who constantly accuses you of doing exactly what they themselves in fact do, and constantly blames you for their horrific behaviour.

Anyone with any level of understanding of abusive dynamics, Reading all of OPs posts, can clearly see what's going on here and that the H is behaving in the classic way all abusers do.

I only realised how long this thread was after I got tagged so I didn't even get the chance to see the rest of OP's posts before I posted but good we have you to remind others :)

Sure you could argue that. we may get a different story if we heard the dhs view we may not. We know a snapshot.

Wouldn't it be much better if they had communicated about this instead of muttering under their breath and telling one another how awful they were -in unproductive ways from both parties - and shouting?

I do not think OP is innocent in this. I think they both need to learn how to communicate more effectively. There may be a whole load of other stuff but from this single incident no I do not think OP reacted well and I stand by that. I have already stated that nor do I think the DH acted well but that doesn't = I feel the op gets a free card to not look at what she did. Its about handling things in a productive manner. I do not feel either of them did this here

@Enko how could they communicate? The husband came down at 7.30, leaving the OP to care for both children from 5.45 and just expected everything to be ready. If he'd been up since 6am and was actively involved in engaging their son and getting him dressed he would have a point, but the OP has said he won't do this. Why does he get to decide how the OP gets their son ready when he is not in any way engaged in the process?

But she didn't disagree with him and tell him did she?
She spoke under her breath and she then started telling him to " calm down" and he couldn't behave himself. He shouted and threw stuff and I would hazard a guess this is a common way they communicate and they both leave feeling frustrated by the other.

Again I am NOT saying the dh behaved like an angel. Far from it. I don't think irritating and didn't pick her moment is correct for what she did. I feel she is minimising.

Again this is AIBU not relationships or other such forum

Oh how about using grown-up voices and words instead of muttering under your breath and shouting?

You know actually be an adult about it? Not trying to score points (and I speak from both sides here)

Again this is AIBU