Who is in the wrong? Fight in front of DC

[SmashedPots]

I'm going to describe this as factually as possible and want honest opinions

DC (3) still has tantrums. Every morning it's hard to get him ready. He was playing with playdoh and he was half dressed. Before he put his jumper on he said "more playdoh mummy". I had got some out and it was on the side. He did already have some in his hands.

DH comes downstairs to take DC to school. DH says "no more playdoh. We are going now"

Tantrum starts. It's a bad one. DC shouting a lot "more playdoh etc etc"

I say under my breath to DH "he could have just had that playdoh you know. I did get it out for him"

DH shouts "fuck you. Fuck off undermining me like always"

DC stops tantrum as soon as DH shouts at me and starts shouting at DH "stop fighting"

I say "calm down DH. Stop shouting in front of DC"

He keeps shouting

I say "you're less in control of your emotions that DS"

DH grabs the pot of play-doh (which he had put on a high shelf" and throws it really hard at the floor right in front of DS.

I tell DH to get out.

DH shouts "you fucking made this happen. Undermining me as fucking usual. This is your fault."

I haven't raised my voice once but DH tells me I've got that "look on my face"

My poor baby boy.

It lasted 5 mins in total. They have now left and I have to get ready for work with the baby.

Was I undermining? Is this abusive? I can't think straight these days.

@SmashedPots when DD1 was 2 I sat him down and gave him a 'shape up or ship out' talk. It didn't make him change his feelings initially, but when he saw that my way (firm but calm) worked and his way didn't, he managed to adapt. Grudgingly.

Later on when the DDs became older and more independent it got bad again and he basically disengaged from parenting and that was actually OK by me. Then his mum died, he became an alcoholic and he completely couldn't handle the teen years and it all went to shit. He died while we were divorcing and honestly, I should have divorced him earlier.

DD2 is autistic.

Oh your posts are breaking my heart. You are obviously a great mum. And you're right that if you split and your husband got 50:50 thats not great either but would he want that do you think?
Your boy really sounds similar to my autistic boy. And ive found the myth that autistic people dont understand others feelings really very wrong; my little one is only 4 but he feels everyones emotions deeply. If his sisters sad, hes sad. Even if i think im hiding my feelings he sometimes says "mummy why sad?". Hes hyper in tune with others feelings , though he often cant identify his own.
From your posts you seem to have your head screwed on and i believe you will find the right solution for your kids.
Just really wanted to re-iterate that no matter what anyone on this thread says, you are not in the wrong. Your husband is.

Oh @SmashedPots the more you write, the worse it sounds. Your husband is abusive. Your son can have autism and be anxious. And what child wouldn't be anxious, living in a house where screams and shouts and slams doors.

This is a toxic environment to raise your children in. They deserve better. You deserve better.

Feeling strong today though. Going to go to my mums with the kids tomorrow.

Have you told your mum about what’s going on? It might help to talk to someone IRL.

Well, if he doesn't want you to leave, he knows what he has to do. Blaming you for it is just another way of controlling you. The more you write, the more I feel that leaving him would be the right thing to do.

I think you sound like you've got your head screwed on right OP and will probably leave him - because you know that's what's right for your children. The idea of your poor little 3yo saying 'no, no, no fighting' - so devastating that he's already learning it's on him to manage his dad's emotions.

You don't want him or your baby walking on eggshells because of this angry, horrible man. He feels 'unsafe'? Fuck off. He IS unsafe.

Is there any likelihood he'd want/be able to do 50:50? I mean really, not what he'll say to punish you for/try to convince you not to leave him.

Are you financially able to go it alone?

Good luck. I hope this time next year you and your children are living together in a peaceful harmonious home, with him just a minor irritant at the side of all your lives.

OP's mum will probably not be supportive. She stayed married to another angry shouty man - probably why the OP was subconsciously drawn to another man like that - and will not like the idea that the OP finds this unacceptable for her kids. It will read as a judgment on her choices, so she will seek to minimise the DP's behaviour.

Your son is being emotionally abused and you can see it.

That is why reaching out to Women's aid, GP, HV for advice and support is wise as a first step.

Saying out loud what really is going on is empowering.

So you judge a mum for allowing a very young child to play while getting ready for school but you justify a man being aggressive, screaming and swearing at their mum in front of them? 🤦🏻‍♀️

Your husband was out of line... there was no need for this, even if you miscalculated the time your child has before he had to go out.

Perhaps the reason DS has tantrums is because his dad has them as well? The part when the CHILD stops screaming to ask the ADULT not to fight is heartbreaking.
My home used to be like that. I left DH. Guess what? My 2 DC are calmer and better behaved now!

This would have really intimidated me.

I think we will discuss it later out of the way of the children later. Its okay to feel angry, it's not play to be Intimidating and violent.

What's the rest of his behaviour like?

Wow, I am so shocked that a community that is supposed to help and support mums can come up with some of the replies you’ve had. Justifying a man being aggressive and abusive and not pulling his weight. On another note I see the self righteous ones don’t seem to have the faintest idea of what having an autistic child looks like!
My two youngest are autistic, there’s a big difference between a tantrum and an autistic meltdown. Sensory play calms your son and helps him cope and that’s right and appropriate. Shouting and taking things away without warning is likely to end up in a meltdown which is totally counterproductive.
I suppose you are getting support now regarding visual timetables and predictable routines for your DS, it’s a steep learning curve but the dad needs to be included in this, together or not, he needs to understand his behaviours and triggers, otherwise your life is going to become increasingly hard.
I wish I could just sit down with you for a cup of coffee and tell you what I wish I had known when my son was 3, you need support and it does not look like your DH is ready or willing to offer what you need without drastic changes to his attitude and that aggressive behaviour seems like a red flag to me. He needs to be on board with what your child needs and stop making it all about his own feelings (and so do you, you were the one being screamed at and disrespected). Good luck, it’s so hard to go through this alone.

I’m so sorry OP, I’ve found it really hard to read your posts. My little girl (she’s 9 now) has ADHD. She’s the most precious thing in the world to me and I’d protect her from anything. Kids with additional needs need to be treated differently and require different strategies; that’s just a fact! As you say, slow, clam and supportive will always be more successful than chaotic screaming and demanding. Just does not work!! My girl uses a lump of blue tac as her fiddle/stress release. If others don’t understand that your little one needs something like play doh to calm him down, don’t give it a seconds thought. It doesn’t matter in the slightest: fck them!! Do what’s right for you and your boy and trust your instincts. As for DH, sounds like he has a lot of growing up to do. I know dealing with my little girl was such a learning curve for both me and my DH - everyone saying she was naughty, distracted, didn’t listen etc. until you truly get it, you don’t buy into the fact that there’s something else going on. I know it took me and my DH a while to truly understand and change our approach; it doesn’t sound like he’s there yet? He needs to put more effort into understanding DS, learning strategies, and also being a big boy, get out of bed earlier and help out. If he doesn’t show any willing to work on himself and he continues to be abusive, personally I would have to leave for the sake of me and my child. I just wanted to say I’m so sorry and sending you a big hug. It’s so hard even with two supportive parents, you must feel totally alone. You know what’s best for your son; keep fighting for him and don’t let anyone tell you differently x

OP, you sound like a wonderful mummy to me xxx

Coming back to check how you're getting on and to reiterate he's abusive and crap and you and the kids deserve better.

Please reach out to your HV on the phone while you're at your mum's. And like I said before please consider opening up to preschool about it too.

You sound like a great mum, op. Your husband really needs counselling to work through his anger. Tough when he won't go. I grew up with lots of yelling too and it was horrible. Sounds like you're doing what you can now to work out how to protect your children from that

I've had this situation with my DH too.

I just put it down to everyone been stressed.

You say your comment was under your breath but I would guess DH heard which is why he kicked off. He overreacted but that happens when everyone is stressed.

I would just put it down to a bad morning but maybe come up with a plan on how to get ready that you both agree.

My DCs are a nightmare if there on their tablets on a morning so I agreed with DH that they don't have them until they are ready. It works but if he gave in and let them have them I would be mad.

You were not undermining him! You were defending your son.
Imagine how confusing it would be to be told by one parent you can have it, then by the other you can’t. At 3 he won’t be quick enough to say “but mummy just agreed to let me have it for 5 more minutes” or whatever, so you have to be the one to tell DH that you’ve already spoken with DS about it.

His reaction was way OTT and I’m glad to see he’s remorseful. I hope this is a one off.

Big hugs, OP. Please do call Women's Aid when you can. They are experts and can help you sort through your feelings about all this, and also your options.

It sounds like you and your children deserve much better.

I've read all your posts but not all the replies.
I don't think AIBU is the place for this tbh, I think you'd get more helpful responses in Relationships or maybe Parenting.

I have a young child with suspected ASD, a DH who can be stricter and less patient than me, and we do argue more often than we'd like - it's hard. But based on what you've told us I think this goes beyond that, I think your DH's behaviour has crossed the line into emotional abuse. It's the fact that this happens so regularly and you get the silent treatment afterwards. Plus his weird expectation that you will do everything in the mornings while he just expects DS to be ready on time so he can whisk him out the door - something is very off about that and it makes me think he's selfish/superior and expects you to do the hard work of parenting. I also think it's a big red flag that he's refused to consider getting therapy - it sounds as if he's had a difficult upbringing which will of course affect his parenting. That would be a dealbreaker for me, tbh. He does therapy and/or a parenting course or it's over. He will damage DC whether you stay with him or not so you might as well LTB and give your DC a peaceful home at least 50% of the time (hopefully more).

And would you express your 'being mad' by shouting, screaming, swearing and throwing things in front of your toddler?

No, thought not. It's not the same. However stressed or angry he is, he is an adult, a parent. He needs to go to his room and count to fucking twenty, not scream and swear and terrorise a 3 year old child. Jesus. How low are the standards for men on here???

Well exactly. He doesn't bother to get involved with what sounds like a really challenging morning routine that the OP has learned to manage single-handed, then when he's ready to leave he pops up and drives a fucking truck through it. He's a childish wanker.

I know you're not addressing me, but my situation was the same. I ended up staying with him until the DC were old enough not to need me to be with them the whole time. I couldn't risk him having them without me there. It's a horrendous thing to experience. I was like you, in that I tried to make everything better for everyone all the time, but the only person who can make things better here is your husband. I would honestly give him an ultimatum regarding his behaviour: one more strike and he's out. I have learnt a lot about abusive behaviour since we split up, and I wish I had known back then that my DC would probably not have had unsupervised contact with their father. If I could have been certain of that, I'd have left him when they were younger.

@SmashedPots I'm pleased to hear you are leaving and that other posters have advised you talk to Women's Aid.

From your description, it sounds like your DH is trapped in a pattern of behaviour called DARVO - Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. Its possibly triggered by his belief you will leave him but that's no excuse. Its fixable but only if he goes for intense therapy, and you can't make him do that.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARVO