Who is in the wrong? Fight in front of DC

[SmashedPots]

I'm going to describe this as factually as possible and want honest opinions

DC (3) still has tantrums. Every morning it's hard to get him ready. He was playing with playdoh and he was half dressed. Before he put his jumper on he said "more playdoh mummy". I had got some out and it was on the side. He did already have some in his hands.

DH comes downstairs to take DC to school. DH says "no more playdoh. We are going now"

Tantrum starts. It's a bad one. DC shouting a lot "more playdoh etc etc"

I say under my breath to DH "he could have just had that playdoh you know. I did get it out for him"

DH shouts "fuck you. Fuck off undermining me like always"

DC stops tantrum as soon as DH shouts at me and starts shouting at DH "stop fighting"

I say "calm down DH. Stop shouting in front of DC"

He keeps shouting

I say "you're less in control of your emotions that DS"

DH grabs the pot of play-doh (which he had put on a high shelf" and throws it really hard at the floor right in front of DS.

I tell DH to get out.

DH shouts "you fucking made this happen. Undermining me as fucking usual. This is your fault."

I haven't raised my voice once but DH tells me I've got that "look on my face"

My poor baby boy.

It lasted 5 mins in total. They have now left and I have to get ready for work with the baby.

Was I undermining? Is this abusive? I can't think straight these days.

I do everything for my kids. I pay for everything. I manage everything. DH expects to sleep until 7.15am and then be presented with a tidy dressed sweet little boy to drive to school. He can either get involved and help or he can leave us all alone.

Did you actually need this man in your life? And I think the odds of him wanting 50:50 are tiny. For starters he'd have to get up at 5:45 each morning and I can't see that happening.

Absolutely start doing this. Every day. From tomorrow.

He sounds like a prick tbh, an abusive one at that. Does he shout fuck you at his mother? His boss? Does he throw stuff around at work?

How are things between you now? Was this a one-off or typical behaviour from him?

I don’t think you undermined him, unless undermined means “failed to show instant ammo unquestioning obedience “.

Hope you’re having an easier morning dear @SmashedPots xx

talk didn't go v well last night at all. DH minimised everything and said it was a two way thing - and plenty people on this thread agree with him.

Anyway - he got out of bed at 7am today and did try to help a little - DS needed to bring in a 'show and tell' which we only realised when i re-packed his bag this morning as DS would not have been able to tell us - and DH jumped up to find something. Which is unusual.

DS then started stressing about his socks and DH said "i will leave without him if this turns into something" at which point DS stopped straight away and said "no, no, no fighting" - again - even though DH just said it in a slightly short tone - so we've clearly fucked DS up from yesterday. he is on high alert.

for people asking if it's a regular thing. DH has never thrown anything before but he has shouted and slammed doors quite a few times - maybe every few weeks he might lose his temper and storm out or shout at us - but it's short-lived in front of DS, then I get a silent/pensive DH for a couple of days and then we go back to being loving again.

Unless he recognises that he has anger issues op, he won’t change. Not really. You’ll spend your life walking on eggshells trying to protect your DC from his moods.

Ignore the posters in this thread saying you’re in the wrong, I can’t imagine they’ve read all your follow up posts about DH’s childhood problems and all the other context.

Our health visitor already said to us that DS behaviour challenges could be down to anxiety rather than ASD - she does't even know anything about DH anger - she just meant because in 3 years DS experienced lockdown for first year of his life, then we moved house/area, his little brother was born, he's been to three different nurseries, also had quite a bit of loss in the family (I had a still birth and lost a friend to suicide) - but I feel he's not aware of those last things because I grieved v. much alone. But anyway - HV already said a lot of change for a 3 year old and even described that much change as 'trauma'. HV doesn't even know DH can't keep his temper sometimes. I'm such a natural mum in some ways - loving, playful, so many cuddles, games, lots of days out, i try to reassure him so much, etc, and i try really hard with all the ASD techniques etc, but i've still messed it all somehow. What the hell am i going to do. My poor sweet boy.

It’s frustrating that he changed his initial contrite response but the fact that he was so upset when he got to work shows that he knows he was way out of line.

This morning sounds like it did go better than yesterday and he was more involved. Did he say anything or look upset when your DD said “no fighting”?

And you haven’t fucked up your DS, it’s all just still fresh in his memory. He will forget about it as long as it doesn’t keep happening. In case it makes you feel better, my NT 3 yr old DD is very sensitive to tone and flies into a rage (don’t you ever shout at my mummy!) if my husband so much as speaks to me in a sharp tone and this is not a home where any of us really yell. She’s just very protective of me despite me reminding her that people sometimes get cross at each other.

DS then started stressing about his socks and DH said "i will leave without him if this turns into something" at which point DS stopped straight away and said "no, no, no fighting" -

So your DH still isn't responsive to your son's needs. How did he respond to what your son said?

Have you posted about your husband before?

The sock thing and your husband threatening to leave without him feels familiar.

@FuckoffeeBeforeCoffee No - well I once posted about him being bad in bed - under a different username - but no, never about socks and DS!

@saraclara - DH didn't say anything when DS said "no fighting" again. He just stepped back. It was the way DS stopped stressing about the socks and jumped up off the sofa, his little face all serious looking up at us - like it's up to him to stop any fights. I just grabbed him and gave him loads of cuddles and said no one is fighting etc.

Dh has a job he cant be late for so he has to leave at a certain time. His whole vibe is stressing, finding his tie, telling us to hurry up etc, and it stresses DS out

If he can't be late for his job, he can damn well get up earlier! That would take a lot of the stress out of it.

Other than that he sounds awful. I bet he can keep his temper at work. He just doesn't choose to do it around you.

OP, it doesn’t sounds as if you’re screwing anything up. You’re the one trying to reduce your DC’s anxiety.

@FuckoffeeBeforeCoffee I thought that- it reminded me of the bloke the other day who wouldn’t take his toddler swimming. Just another one for the dickhead dad club.

I'm curious as to why you haven't told the HV about all the fights and shouting that is going on? That does have an impact on your DS.

@emptythelitterbox DH is always here when HV comes round.

I bet he is. Can you request a meeting away from home. They must have a system in place for where there is abuse in the home.

There does appear to be an approach that only your own way is right and It seems a little late in the day to drop into the thread that HV isn't even sure there are any SEN issues but baring in mind she will have seem many children with issues and be at least familiar with some of the associated traits, what if she is right? What if DS has no special needs at all and all the tantrumming is all a learned response because he has learned that if he kicks off every time he has to stop doing something that he will be pandered to and allowed to do what he wants? The fact that he was able to stop immediately when he realised that yet another meltdown may have a consequence is very interesting. It shows that he does have some element of control over his meltdowns where as a child with SEN would not be able to selectively choose whether to have a meltdown or not depending on whether there might be a percieved unfavourable consequence to doing so. There may well be genuine SEN issues and hopefully you will get the support you need with that sooner rather than later but i have seen a reply from someone with exactly those issues who believes they can see a pattern of pandering to avoid meltdowns here. Incidently your revelation that your DH isn't very good in bed coupled with your clear belief that his style of parenting is wrong and only your way is right (with no middle ground whatsoever between you) may suggest much deeper issues in the relationship in general contributing to any anxiety DS may be acting on.

@RhondaD she just said that she isn't qualified to give him a diagnosis but what she has seen - she referred us to get a diagnosis through the GP. she just said that it could also be caused by anxiety because of covid, change in his life etc. but she definitely never said that we are pandering to him etc, and then whether it's ASD or anxiety or anything - that he needs the same - boundaries, consistency, and plenty of reassurance and love. and that is exactly what i try to do with him. i don't always get it right.

Your DH needs to get up earlier and stop stressing everyone out.

@RhondaD OP has set out clearly just how much this little boy has been through in his short life. Three is a tough age anyway. OP has a strategy that works and keeps the morning routine flowing. How is that 'pandering'? My DH used to use that word too - and he was a useless authoritarian parent who was unwilling to learn, so I tend to take anyone who uses that word with several pounds of salt.

Meanwhile OP's husband refuses to control his temper at home and demands to be 'pandered' to, so who is the problem here?

OP, you should absolutely arrange a meeting away from home with your HV so you can set out what the situation is.

OP honestly you sound like an amazing mum. I really cannot believe some of the responses you are getting on here- ‘reactive abuse’ Jesus Fucking Christ! Poor you & poor DS. I agree about starting a new thread on the relationship board where you might get more sensible advice.

OP,

The more you write, the clearer it becomes, that you need support.

Please contact your HV and GP and tell the truth.

You are trying so hard to do your best for your son but he is being impacted by his fathers behaviour.

His reaction this morning confirms that.

Reach out for support.

@pointythings what did you do about your DH who refused to learn about not being authoritarian or to be flexible to child's needs?

Thank you @billy1966 - yes, there was one big blow out a few weeks ago where DH slammed doors and shouted stuff at DS and me. And I said to myself - never again. And DH said he was sorry and was ashamed. And then yesterday happened. I do doubt myself that I'm winding him up or I'm pandering to my DS or something and that it frustrates DH - but I'm trying not to listen to that - even though people here think that's true.

I told him yesterday that i wasn't interested in him crying at work - he didn't like that one bit. i did ask what he meant by 'unsafe' and he said he felt I was always half thinking of leaving him, and it makes him feel unsafe and perhaps that why he's not in control of his emotions. i said we needed to prioritise our son's emotions right now and he just said "yeah, obviously" and walked out.

Bah. Feeling strong today though. Going to go to my mums with the kids tomorrow.

@Danni675

That was it!

Sorry OP.