Who is in the wrong? Fight in front of DC

[SmashedPots]

I'm going to describe this as factually as possible and want honest opinions

DC (3) still has tantrums. Every morning it's hard to get him ready. He was playing with playdoh and he was half dressed. Before he put his jumper on he said "more playdoh mummy". I had got some out and it was on the side. He did already have some in his hands.

DH comes downstairs to take DC to school. DH says "no more playdoh. We are going now"

Tantrum starts. It's a bad one. DC shouting a lot "more playdoh etc etc"

I say under my breath to DH "he could have just had that playdoh you know. I did get it out for him"

DH shouts "fuck you. Fuck off undermining me like always"

DC stops tantrum as soon as DH shouts at me and starts shouting at DH "stop fighting"

I say "calm down DH. Stop shouting in front of DC"

He keeps shouting

I say "you're less in control of your emotions that DS"

DH grabs the pot of play-doh (which he had put on a high shelf" and throws it really hard at the floor right in front of DS.

I tell DH to get out.

DH shouts "you fucking made this happen. Undermining me as fucking usual. This is your fault."

I haven't raised my voice once but DH tells me I've got that "look on my face"

My poor baby boy.

It lasted 5 mins in total. They have now left and I have to get ready for work with the baby.

Was I undermining? Is this abusive? I can't think straight these days.

Part of this is the kind of thing that would happen in our house ie my DD always dawdles around and I am more inclined to let her, whereas my DH is more impatient and would say ‘come on we are going now’. However, it’s sooo unacceptable that he swore at you in front of the DC! Totally in the wrong in my opinion, I also wouldn’t have undermined him in front of the DC as I wouldn’t want to provoke a reaction and have a row in front of them. I just bite my tongue and we discuss it later if needed.

Please just leave the abusive bastard - for your sake and your son's

Op, you are bang on to disagree with any one here who is criticizing your parenting or you use of playdough, absolute insanity - you are doing what works for you and clearly doing it without support from your husband, which makes it a million times harder.

Your husband undermined you when he barged into the situation with your son, without reading the room or considering anyone else's needs.

The way he focuses on blaming you is a classic pattern of abuse. Being piled on by others who will also blame you is common experience when you are in an abuse dynamic. Look up the styles of abusive behaviour on this video series.

Episode 8 covers impact on children.

OP, this is not going to get any better.

You could tell him to get help with anger management or you want a divorce or, better still, you could just leave now.

Either way, you need to make it clear that what happened today never happens again.

You're right BTW. This would and should be flagged with the local safeguarding team by any decent childcare professionals.

"Sounds like jargon so you can listen to your own voice". Thats awful when you are tryimg to engage with him about how to parent your son.
Leave the prick.

I think you need to trust yourself OP. You sound very informed and sensible.

Unfortunately your husband is manipulating situations to avoid taking responsibility for himself.

It won't get better, it'll get worse. I guess what you need to decide is how much worse are you willing to accept? Where are your standards?

If it was me, and my husband was verbally abusing me and being aggressive Infront of a small child, I'd have to leave. Because I wouldn't feel safe anymore and relationships are supposed to feel safe and loving. Not threatening and frought.

Good luck, and trust yourself.

Oh and I work in a school and this absolutely would be flagged on our safeguarding system and our Head would talk to parents about this.

The truth is though, that we have families with known domestic violence who still don't get adequate support.

But that doesn't make what he did acceptable and it doesn't mean your son won't be affected by the aggression he's witnessing at home.

"Sounds like jargon so you can listen to your own voice"

I had one of these. He had a massive inferiority complex and so he couldn't accept any research on parenting that he didn't agree with. His take on it was 'my parents did it like this and I turned out OK'. Well no, he didn't.

I think you need to start accepting that this may be over. Protect your DS.

Sorry if I missed it OP but I can't see anywhere where you said if this was a one-off or not. For your son to say 'stop fighting' sounds like he has witnessed this before?

I think you were insane to give Playdoh to a three year old tantrumer who had a limited time frame and was only half dressed, and you’d have been truly insane to give in to his demands for Playdoh by giving it to him at that moment. Insane.

But, your H’s behaviour was totally unacceptable. I’d be curious to know what the back story is.

@Herejustforthisone read the full thread. TL:DR The Play Doh is part of the morning routine, which works well unless the husband barges in and starts yelling. The DS is awaiting assessment for ASD. The husband does fuck all to help in the morning, just lounges in bed until the last minute.

@pointythings i think some ARE reading the thread and still think it’s one step off insanity, SN or not. That’s separate and distinct from the DH behaviour which is not acceptable.

I’m not a Playdoh hater by the way. I had it for mine. Just had them play with it at a time/space appropriate for messy play, not when getting dressed and heading out the door, incl those with sensory needs.

"One step off insanity"?? @HoppingPavlova

When DS trashes the house, bangs his head against the wall, takes off all his clothes, refuses to let me near him, when I'm an hour late for work...that all feels like insanity. That's what its like when I just insist he gets dressed with no distraction techniques.

When DS is busy making neat balls out of playdoh at the kitchen table while I slowly get him dressed, fed, and happy before leaving the house as a technique recommended by our health visitor who made the ASD referral...doesn't feel like insanity

I messed up this morning because he wasn't quite ready on time. He usually is.

He wasn't playing with it. He was holding it in his hand, like a stress ball. It works and all that was needed was to put on his jumper. Using whatever tool helps is not one step off insanity. That would be finding a useful aid and opting not to use it because it could potentially create a tiny bit of mess.

@HoppingPavlova but right now, at this point in time, the Play Doh serves a sensory need and acts as a calming anchor for the child. It's going to take time to divert that to another item which will provide the same effect. It's trial and error, you can't just take it away and hope for the best.

And OP has asked her husband for help, he's said he'd be up for 7 and has failed to do that - what is she supposed to do except soldier on? Yes, there's work to be done here in terms of more effective coping strategies for the child, but for now something is in place that works. There's zero point in upending that just to satisfy the one party in the conversation who is actually not doing any of the work.

A lot of this sounds so familiar! Father who has no idea how to manage pre school age children and thinks that you can make them do what you want by intimidation. Difficult upbringing and is offended by the idea of parenting books. Generally unfulfilled in life and takes it out on wife and kids as a way of being in charge of something.

Really he was the one who undermined you, you had already said your son could have the playdough.

Sit down when you're both calm and explain to.him using "I" statements why this behaviour cannot continue. Don't let this situation continue.

Problem is if you split up he will have the children on his own sometimes and you'll have no way of preventing him being aggressive towards them . So there's no easy way out really.

I never knew playdoh was so controversial. Someone seemed v concerned about my soft furnishings. Ha ha. Honestly it's really not v messy. And i don't really care. He just uses it as a stress ball or makes little balls with it. I actually thought I was being a good mum giving him play-doh rather than a screen before school! Gah!!

@HoppingPavlova “one step off insanity, SN or not”
Curious to know why you think this is and what you are basing on this on. Have you got experience of dealing with a child with similar needs to the OP? What approach did you adopt instead?

My child sometimes likes to draw before heading out the door, keeps her calm and occupied and puts her in a good mood for the day. Is that also one step off insanity?

But he will be entitled to 50 50 care for the children. It's not as though the OP can just never see him again

@SnackSizeRaisin something tells me that this man won’t be going for 50:50. If he does, he either won’t stick to it or will outsource. I also hope you’re not suggesting that OP stay in an unhappy marriage (if it is unhappy) until her children are 18 to make sure her husband never has unsupervised contact with them.

Yes I thibk you was. He was I the wrong for loosing his shit, but it sounds like you frequently undermine him and he's snapped. Also, toys before school is a no no, so I think you started this.

@SnackSizeRaisin he started with the whole "I'm a great dad. I do everything. Sacrifice everything. I will not listen to you twist everything into some elaborate story that makes me out to be a bad man. I'm ashamed for throwing stuff and for shouting but I won't be made to feel bad about it by you"

I'm now in bed. He's playing video games.

You're right though. He's entitled to 5050 of course. Its a scary thought. There is no solution where DC doesn't suffer. It's so miserable

He might be entitled to it but that doesn't mean he'll get it or have any interest in it. Let's face it, he's barely coping now when he has you running round trying to make life easier for everyone and smooth things over. He won't cope on his own.

Is he in agreement with your son's diagnosis or is he in denial?

Oh please!! Ffs people act inappropriate, swear and get angry, people have emotions and limits, it doesn't necassarily make them abusive, there's a huge difference between being abusive and just being a nob whos not thinking about their actions and from this post you can't tell wether they are abusive