Who is in the wrong? Fight in front of DC

[SmashedPots]

I'm going to describe this as factually as possible and want honest opinions

DC (3) still has tantrums. Every morning it's hard to get him ready. He was playing with playdoh and he was half dressed. Before he put his jumper on he said "more playdoh mummy". I had got some out and it was on the side. He did already have some in his hands.

DH comes downstairs to take DC to school. DH says "no more playdoh. We are going now"

Tantrum starts. It's a bad one. DC shouting a lot "more playdoh etc etc"

I say under my breath to DH "he could have just had that playdoh you know. I did get it out for him"

DH shouts "fuck you. Fuck off undermining me like always"

DC stops tantrum as soon as DH shouts at me and starts shouting at DH "stop fighting"

I say "calm down DH. Stop shouting in front of DC"

He keeps shouting

I say "you're less in control of your emotions that DS"

DH grabs the pot of play-doh (which he had put on a high shelf" and throws it really hard at the floor right in front of DS.

I tell DH to get out.

DH shouts "you fucking made this happen. Undermining me as fucking usual. This is your fault."

I haven't raised my voice once but DH tells me I've got that "look on my face"

My poor baby boy.

It lasted 5 mins in total. They have now left and I have to get ready for work with the baby.

Was I undermining? Is this abusive? I can't think straight these days.

@AutumnLeaves23 so the routine adopted by the DH of getting up 5 minutes before you leave and expecting the DS to be ready and waiting in that time is the ideal routine

I would tell him the throwing things or shouting cannot happen again or it's over.

He sounds horrible, why does he never help?

He undermined you!

He lets you get up at 5.45 each morning with both children and expects to arrive downstairs, having got himself ready, dish out orders and march straight out of the door.

You were using a strategy that helps you keep your DS calm while getting him ready for your DH to take. He overruled your decision to use that strategy without any consultation or consideration of what you might be dealing with.

He wants to be able to order you around so he overreacted to you letting him know that he was undermining a decision you had already made. This is to make sure you keep making his life easy.

Your DH is very much in the wrong.

I think your gut is right.

What?!

The OP has a routine that works for her and her DS.

Her husband is not part of that routine. He doesn't put any time or effort into the morning routine. He hasn't spent time figuring out what works and putting that into place.

He gets up when suits him and then expects to bark orders and have everyone jump into line. Today he was an aggressive disruption to a working routine. He walked into a situation of calm progress at the right pace for DS and HE brought aggression, violence, and upset into it. He's not putting a routine in place. He's wrecking one!

At some point you are going to have to decide whether you can bear for your children to grow up around such a violent, angry thug.

You might find yours and your children's lives are infinitely easier and more peaceful without their father, that you can calmly manage your little toddler's issues yourself with the help of the HV and others.

It is extremely damaging to grow up in a home like this op. Poor children. Please protect them, and put them first.

I think some people like Autumn have perhaps skin in the game, and a reason to defend abuse, by keeping blaming the victim, she seems unaware of the damage she could be doing to op and her children (and others like her reading) by giving such terrible advice, and blaming anyone but the man.

She constantly refers to op getting on top of this, and being responsible. Without stopping to realise that a child is the responsibility of BOTH parents, and if one is violent and abusive, then the child can not thrive and never will - good routine or not!

It is really disturbing.

Honestly I don't understand why playdoh is such a bad idea before school. I need tools to help me in the morning.

You can’t think of why? I have one with ASD, who when at school had a ‘sensory box’. The sensory box was provided by us and I can guarantee you if we had of put Playdoh in it they would have sent it back asap and asked for something else to replace that doesn’t have the same potential for mess and bits getting g where they shouldn’t. Again, there are many fidget/sensory toys that can be used as tools that would be more appropriate and okay to keep playing with while getting dressed and then to also take in the car, like an actual appropriately sized stress ball for example. That way you would not get Playdoh smooched into clothes, the car and a meltdown while taking it away she this doesn’t happen.

@SmashedPots Listen to your gut. I missed that bit earlier on.

And this sounds like you lack comprehension and compassion.

I can guarantee you if we had of put Playdoh in it they would have sent it back asap and asked for something else to replace that doesn’t have the same potential for mess and bits getting g where they shouldn’t

Hopping- OP's choice if she wants a risk of a slight mess in her own home, she is choosing it because it helps him and will willing to deal with any minor mess herself.

His reaction is way OTT. He can disagree without being an abusive twat. And yes before anyone says anything, abusive is the correct word.

If there's going to be a meltdown ref taking things away it's going to happen whether playdoh or not.

I have disabilities so struggling with the house anyway, but I have really relaxed about things like 'mess' and dirty clothes because so many of the things that satisfy my kids' sensory needs are messy sticky and sometimes dirty.

We have hoover and washing machine, we have bath and shower. Against my green credentials i also have spray and wipes to make it easier for them to clear up after themselves (work in progress)

We have spaces where we can accommodate messy play (in the nicer weather I try to make this space the garden!)

They're not kids for long, i let them express and soothe themselves freely and safely, even if I don't always like the results.

Where I can i support their need to be free from being helicoptered and being told what to do or how to do it.
Mine have enough of this at school and with their dad.

Low demand approach has saved my relationship with my nearly teen.
Still boundaries and behaviour expectations but freedom to do what they need to help them decompress and self regulate.

Being managed or controlled all the time will impact and come out elsewhere.

As an older parent I think its vital that kids learn autonomy and have space to act completely independently ( in accordance with safety, age and needs) when they're adults working, studying whatever and when I'm gone or my health fails more, I can't be there to advocate for them and fix everything.

I wasn't allowed any space privacy or freedom and only now in my 50s am i realising how much this affects me, not trusting gut instincts, not knowing when to ask for help, not knowing when im being vulnerable to an unsafe person etc.

I wish more people understood this, there's not enough training for parents or professionals who could advise parents.

There is more people publicly talking about asc and adhd, not so much spd but its happening.
i really hope this will go the same way as the newfound passion for supporting women through the menopause ( and their loved ones, Colleagues etc )
Simple habit and expectations tweaks reap rewards.

Honestly I don't understand why playdoh is such a bad idea before school. I need tools to help me in the morning.

Its not a bad idea if it works for you and your child.

Playdoh may not work for some because it can be messy with some kids and is too likely to cause meltdowns when removed.

For others it will work just fine.

That’s one of the reasons it’s so difficult - there’s no “this is what will work” because every child is different and what works and doesn’t work for every family is different.

That's really interesting - my DC has a sensory box provided by school and it DOES contain playdoh. I'd rather they found something else tbh as it gets everywhere and comes home on bag, uniform, hair etc, but if it works it works and I'm immensely grateful that they provide one at all.

Obviously what I could do next time I'm trying to peel playdoh out of a writhing child's hair is storm up to the school, throw the playdoh at them and shout that they're fucking undermining me, and half the posters on this thread would apparently think that was fine (not you, for avoidance of doubt).

Showing 'Authority' doesn't really support many kids with asc.

Behaviour from kids with asc can be seen as naughty or uncooperative in neuro'typical' kids but often it's for very different reasons with asc.

Better to show understanding and kindness and model self regulation as well as offering choice of helpful alternatives for those pressure cooker situations such as trying to get out to work and school in the morning.

Traditional authoritarian parenting is not helpful, in much the same way as traditional school rules don't support kids with asc, adhd etc.
there's many ways to support children without using the lazy blanket approach of having 'Authority'.

Traditional authoritarian parenting is bad for all kids, not just those with autism and other SEN. The gold standard is authoritative parenting, which means firm boundaries, calmly enforced, with no loss of control. In OP's case she has this - there's a morning routine in place which works. It's a work in progress because her DS is still young, changing all the time and going through the process of obtaining a diagnosis. In the case of OP's husband he does not do this - he gets his lie in, rocks up at the last minute and expects everything his way.

Its done now so you need a resolution. Which is an agreed parenting strategy. Do you want to do all mornings alone in which case he should stay out of it in the morning. or do you want him down as well? Are you both getting DS ready or are you doing that while he does the other child?

Can you agree if you are using distraction and gentle parenting techniques or a more authoritative approach? Can your health visitor recommend a parenting service based on your specific child?

I feel there are a few things going on here.
A DH who is really struggling with having and accepting a son who has suspected ASD and being cut out of that relationship, you talk about you and your son understanding each other etc, when does your husband get that opportunity? Have you asked the health visitor to meet with him alone? Have you looked into some dad's ASD support groups?

Secondly, if you know he comes down at 7.30 I don't think it's unreasonable for him to expect son to be ready, you have had nearly two hours and agreeing to give him more playdoh wasn't exactly ensuring he was ready. You need a visual timer by 7.15 all activities are tidied up and it's jumper, shoes etc ready to go. May aswell start as you mean to go on as at school next year there will be a set start time!

Agreed.

OP you have been clearly bullied and conditioned to expect nothing from this waster.

You are up for 2 hours with 2 children from 5ish am and he swans in 5 minutes before he leaves and has a violent tantrum and throws play dough?

On what planet does a father lay on in bed whilst his wife manages two small children on her own BEFORE she goes to work?

Only on MN where standards are so low for so many.

Listen to your gut.

Your 3 year old knows that adults "fight".

Please reach out for the support you so badly need ànd deserve.

@Allybob88 why do you think it is acceptable for the husband to come down so late instead of getting up earlier and actively choosing to take part? OP has asked him to be down at 7 (which I still think is too late in this situation) but he has failed to do so. If he wants to be part of the routine, he has to bloody well make the effort.

if you know he comes down at 7.30 I don't think it's unreasonable for him to expect son to be ready, you have had nearly two hours and agreeing to give him more playdoh wasn't exactly ensuring he was ready.

The OP is not her husband's paid nanny! She has her own job. They need to split parenting. He doesn't get to say to her "Oh, and make sure you have DS neat, tidy and ready to go for X time and the kitchen cleaned up" in the manner of a Victorian father giving orders to his household staff.

Why is it the OP's job to get up with the children?

Why is it the OP's job to ensure that her husband is not inconvenienced in any way by his children?

Why is it the OP's job to find out about learning opportunities for men for her husband?

Is it because she has a vagina?

Exactly this! Can you imagine if a woman came on here and said “my husband gets up with our child at 5.45 and has him ready for me at 7.30. He has had conversations with the health visitor and learnt about our son’s possible ASD diagnosis, but hasn’t arranged for me to go to a support group. How can I get him to do more?”