Where is ChopinandChampagne? LB update?

[gianfrancogorgonzola]

Really hope you see this C&C, I was following your other threads (name change a lot) and wanted to check in to see how you are.

🙏🏼

I’ve read your posts and sorry to here you have again come full circle. Its clear your love language, for want of a better word is gift giving.
DD and LB view them in purely monetary terms and have no sentimental attachment other than what the gift can do for them. You view them as a sign of love.

on another note, the only reason you are wanted im Ireland is to take the gifts over.

and finally, can you really be proud of 2 people who are only financially sound only because they have sponged off everyone around them?

Its high time you cut the apron strings and let them get on with it. If you had been this much of a push over in your career how far would you have got? No very!! Find that strength you had then and view dd/lb as you would a difficult and unpleasant counter party

I wonder if she will share your conversation with LB.

Assume he is reading every text.

If she has - the next step from previous experience will be for you to “make amends”

I think it’s interesting that you have said a few times that they are currently v financially secure. Are you worried that they don’t need you now?

I do wonder why you keep buying them expensive gifts, are you still paying their phone bill? They are financially sound now, let them buy their own things and STOP with the gift giving.

I am genuinely worried about the emotional pain you are in, Chopin.

I also share your fears re the fact that he now also controls her financially. The very thought chills me to the bones.

Your daughter loves you. She does. Please rest assured that the day the scales fall off her eyes she will know and understand that her mother also loves her, and that you will always be there for her.

Send on the stuff they have requested (bar any gifts) and draw a financial line under it. No more of this nonsense going forward.

Use the weather as a perfectly legitimate excuse not to visit. Absence (and the lack of a punching bag!) will no doubt make the heart grow fonder.

Your Christmas gift to yourself this year should be a fantastic winter sun holiday. The Maldives are eye-wateringly expensive in Jan and Feb and it’s super easy to drop £12K or more on a week. Go learn to dive, and every time you WhatsApp another splendid shot of paradise think of LB choking on his cornflakes in the Irish gloom.

I disagree with this approach. Although LB does seem emotionally and possibly financially abusive, and certainly manipulative and selfish, I don't think it helps Chopin's DD to be given a pass for her own cruel behaviour. She should be aware of how her words and actions affect her mother. She isn't a toddler or even a teenager, she's a 30-year-old woman who has behaved appallingly toward Chopin. It is completely understandable to me why Chopin reached a breaking point and expressed her feelings and pain to her DD. Sometimes these things need to be said (and heard).

@ChopinandChampagneI think you are in a nearly impossible situation. I agree with PPs that it's probably for the best to stop all gift giving with the exception of token presents for the children. You seem like a very generous individual, not just in terms of gifts but in wanting to give your DDs and DGC time and attention. Because you aren't able to give your DD1 and DGC much in the way of time and attention, the gifts may have taken on an outsize significance in expressing your love.

However, even if you step back from gift giving, I'm almost certain that your DD1 and LB will find something else to focus their displeasure on. Nothing you do will ever meet their approval. Unfortunately, the more you try to dance to their tune, the more likely it will be that they will latch onto something else they consider unacceptable. I know how much you want to have a close relationship with your DD and DGC, but it seems that the best you can hope for (at least for now) would be somewhat distant and reserved interactions. I can only imagine how painful that must be for you.

I agree with luckynumber8! Go on holiday!

Honestly, I live in Ireland and am a mucky gardener who is perfectly comfortably off and older, and I don't have Dubarrys yet! They're far too expensive! She could easily have got perfectly functional warm boots at decathlon or similar. She is hopping about in her cashmere and silk and dubarrys and you are insulating her - both physically and metaphorically - from the uncomfortableness of her situation.

The poster above who says you equate luxury gifts with love and they equate them with monetary value / convenience is spot on. Gosh that sounds quite harsh. I do think that you are just trying to be a lovely, nurturing supportive mum who wants all her girls to be safe and secure and comfortable. Unfortunately they (he, but also they) are taking advantage of your model of parenting to meet the needs of their own model of living.

BTW there are a lot of American Christian-influenced homeschooling homesteaders who are very against debt and into thrifting and leaving and cleaving (ie when you're a married unit, that's your priority) and the man being the head of the household etc and wife being a keeper at home etc. They all youtube/instagram/podcast it all, keeping cows and bees and chickens and growing veg etc - there are millions of followers. A lot of what you are saying they are doing falls into this category - do you think they are influenced by this type of thing? Just because if so they will be getting a lot of moral solidarity from it, it's a huge movement at the moment.

Have a look at Farmhouse on Boone, Now That We're a Family, Ballerina Farm (all American) for maybe a different slant on it. Interestingly Ballerina Farm's lifestyle is apparently likely to be financially underwritten by their wealthy father in law who is a billionaire airline owner, so again there's a bit of smoke and mirrors going on. It's really the fact they're embracing religion that made me think of it, although I'm surprised it's Catholicism. Trad Cath is definitely a thing as well (very conservative young Catholics).

Could not be relevant at all, but I do find it fascinating where they're getting their influence from. Not at all such a thing in UK or Ireland I don't think!

Do you think the DD doesn't know? From what was said here, DD knows she is in a bad situation. She commented that LB's parents are not very positive. She regrets her treatment of her DF and family.

The woman is in a very abusive relationship, completely isolated, and you all want to "make her accountable". It may be fair, but I don't think you will see good results with this approach.

As they say in the films, remember who the enemy is. It's LB. DD is being an accomplice, and it's not defending the DGC, which is serious. But even if she woke up and magically realised her husband is a monster, it would still be very difficult to disentangle herself from the situation.

She needs @ChopinanChampagne 's help, not "the truth" or "a good talking to". These will achieve nothing.

I'm finding fascinating how supportive MN is with abused women in so many threads, and in this one everyone is treating the mother of the victim as the victim, and the victim as the villain.

Chopin's DD may be in an abusive marriage but she is also an adult with agency. And she has treated her mother abusively as well. From a psychological POV it's an understandable pattern for a victim of abuse to seek out a victim of their own. But it's hardly something that Chopin should just accept without a murmur. Of course Chopin wants to support her DD emotionally and as far as I can see, she has gone to great lengths to do so. But it does no one any favours to allow herself to be a whipping boy for her DD1 and LB. Not only does that infantilise her DD, it makes it less likely that the scales will fall from the DD's eyes if she is led to believe that everything is fine and it's perfectly acceptable to engage in such treatment of people you ostensibly love.

Your Christmas gift to yourself this year should be a fantastic winter sun holiday. The Maldives are eye-wateringly expensive in Jan and Feb and it’s super easy to drop £12K or more on a week. Go learn to dive, and every time you WhatsApp another splendid shot of paradise think of LB choking on his cornflakes in the Irish gloom.

This made me laugh out loud @Luckynumbereight . I now actually hope Chopin is still paying the phone bill so she can send some fabulous pictures from the Maldives and know it's only through her own generosity that LB is choking on his cornflakes. If there was ever a need for water SKI-ing (Spending the Kids' Inheritance) this is it.

In all other circumstances, I hope you aren't still paying the phone bill, Chopin.

Exactly what @lessthanathirdofanacre said.

This and your earlier post are exactly what I wanted to say but with more eloquence.

Chopin should not have to take being abused because her daughter is being abused. I understand coercive control, I have huge sympathy for DD1, but she is also engaging in the abuse of her mother. It is a tricky and complicated situation.

Agreed.

@whatwouldAnnaDelveydo the OP doesn't owe her daughter her existence as a whipping board.

Her daughter is in and has chosen to remain with a deeply unpleasant man.

No one has forced her to be unpleasant to her parents.

She has had opportunities to privately clear the air with her mother.

She is surprised and disappointed after treating her sister's and friends poorly that they don't fall at her feet and move on from it, because it suits HER.

She is more like LB than the OP cares to admit to, which I can definitely empathise with.

She is in a controlling relationship but I don't think she is a lovely innocent young woman, she certainly hasn't been to parents who loved her deeply, a dying father, and a grieving mother.

Of course her mother loves her and wants only the best for her, but offering herself up to be berated for dry ham goes beyond mothering responsibilities in my view.

The OP needs to protect herself from her emotionally abusive and manipulative daughter.

From your earlier posts about lobster boy it seems your daughter was already asking for money from you. She always has done and it has always been easy for her to do that. She has always felt entitled to your money. Your daughter is also manipulative, and cruel, and the gift giving must stop, but people have been telling you this for a long time. You have to change this pattern and dynamic, you have to be the change.

I didn't say that @ChopinanChampagne should be a whipping boy. I think she should have boundaries, and limit the damage DD can do to her.

However, I don't think that going on and on about how her feelings are hurt will help. DD doesn't seem to be able to handle that, on top of all the other shitness in her life. DD seems to be in survival mode, and you all are demanding that she behaves like a reasonable adult.

Of course she SHOULD behave like an adult, but I'm afraid you are all focusing on what should be, and not what IS. It would be better (in my opinion) if the OP accepted the situation, and then decided an strategy to live with that (or not live with that, go NC is a valid option). It's like having a family member in a cult. There are strategies to try to make them see it's a cult. And these strategies include accepting they are not talking to an adult of sound mind.

@whatwouldAnnaDelveydo I understand the point you are making in good faith, however as @chemicalworld has pointed out, from the earliest threads, OP's daughter has always had the most entitled expectations of her parents.

I think I'd reply with something very neutral. Just saying there is upset on both sides and that it's best not to continue it over email as things can be taken out of context. I'd then impart some news, maybe mention that the dog sitter is poorly which might cause issues, terrible shame. Chatty and light. Snow, strikes etc. End with an I love you and I'm always here. Love to everyone's etc. Do not mention anything to do with gifts.

They'll hate it but it gives them nothing to hook onto. (Hopefully).

LB will be waiting for you to beg to visit etc. don't rise to it.

If they start asking about the gifts, well you know that they see you as a cash cow.

I don't remember much from DD in the early threads, I remember mostly LB's antics (I also learnt that people buy whisky as investment. Blew my mind).

If she is that abusive person you are saying, then my points may not make much sense. But regardless the reason, @ChopinanChampagne is expecting from DD things than she cannot give, and it never ends well.

Both Chopin and her DD are in emotionally abusive relationships. DD at the hands of LB, and as a result she is abusing her mother, Chopin.

Having been in an abusive relationship and been alienated from from my friends I can see how LB can do this, and have her saying horrible things to her Chopin. But that doesn't mean Chopin has to put herself in that situation or allow herself to be abused. In Chopin's shoes I'd ensure my DD knew she could come to me for help to leave her abuser, and I'd say that to her, those exact words, but then I'd step back.

As awful as it so to see someone in an abusive relationship, like an alcoholic, they have to hit rock bottom and decide themselves to do something about it. No one can force that person to leave, only they can make that decision. If they know they have support when they get to that stage they can reach out then.

I'd have one last conversation with DD, I'd tell DD that I know she's in an abusive relationship, she's being coerced, emotionally and financially abused and I'm sure there's more, I will always be there for her when she decides to leave, but for my own mental health I won't be engaging unless she approaches me. I'd send the odd card or make the odd phone call (no point writing as LB will probably throw it away), but only every 6 months or so. Let DD come when she's ready.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/3141884-Family-rift-how-to-heal. Here is four years ago. I'm not posting this to be mean, I just want to show the pattern of behaviour of DD1. Yes, she is influenced but she has been a pretty willing participant.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/3141884-Family-rift-how-to-heal

I remember your post above from 2018 very well, Chopin, because you were clearly in such distress. Sadly, it’s very clear that DD was in total thrall to LB but also that she had no hesitation in saying and doing things that hurt you terribly.

And of course: they would like a freezer costing nearly 350 pounds and to transfer the money to her account, along with any birthday or Christmas money Plus ça change, eh?

There has been plenty of excellent advice here. Central to it is the cessation of gift giving with the exception of some small token gifts for the DHC - perhaps some frugal gifts with a value of £10 or £20. No Cambridge Baby organic silk and wool. More like supermarket joggers and tights. You need to stop being seen as a cash cow. No more 'pay to view' the kids.

I would take the advice to tell DD1 that she is in an abusive relationship and that you will be there for her when she has the strength to leave. Then step back and limit contact to just some bright and breezy occasional exchanges. You need to protect yourself despite your mother's instinct to try and help your DD1. You can't. You can only wait and be there for her when she finally realises what her situation is.

I'm so terribly sorry about all of this. You have my heartfelt sympathy. I've seen it close up and it is heartbreaking. But you need to protect yourself.

Hi Chopin the advice over the last few days has been incredible but it must be so difficult to process everything.

I just want to send you a hand hold for the next couple of weeks.

i know you are a fab mum and I really hope she is able to appreciate it at some point 💐💐

I think this is a perfect analysis and advice. Putting it all in the open with DD seems like the way to go. And then seat back and wait.

I read the 2018 thread linked here. It's still the same situation (DD doesn't seem entitled to me, at least not in that thread, but controlled). A PP mentioned that it's like DD was in a cult - 4 years later, that's how I read it too.

She has to want to get out, no one can do it for her.

Just a thought: since it seems that LB targeted DD for her rich family, maybe stopping the gifts and disowning her (and letting them know) could make him lose interest. It's risky, but that's a strategy. Why would he keep around if there's no inheritance in the horizon, or gifts in the present?