Where is ChopinandChampagne? LB update?

[gianfrancogorgonzola]

Really hope you see this C&C, I was following your other threads (name change a lot) and wanted to check in to see how you are.

🙏🏼

I'm always surprised that so many posters think that DD will see the light one day and leave LB. That's incredibly unlikely, it's them against the world, and that's how it'll probably stay.

Some things in life just have to be accepted, because we have no other choice. With acceptance comes peace.

@birder
I agree that the chances of things changing are not great, but it does happen and there are posters on this thread who have told stories with happy endings.

In my family's case there is no happy ending I'm afraid. That is why I feel it is so important for Chopin to think of her own mental welfare and protect herself.

I think from the very beginning her daughter has been extremely comfortable asking for money.

I think @ChopinanChampagne was very reasonable in her response to want to protect any house investment.

LB and her daughter are enormously entitled in their expensive tastes but abhorrence for paid work.

Wanting to own a home via your parents but not be a "morgage monkey" is the very definition of entitled IMO.

I have privately educated children, some of whom are in university, with friends with similar affluent backgrounds and I can honestly write we would laugh in disbelief if faced with the above paragraph in relation to our children.

I would honestly think they were smoking something!

I concur with others, the roll call of expensive gifts needs to end.

Requests for cashmere and silk having never worked a day in their lives?

Cloud cookoo land that has only served to reinforce her hugely entitled view of the world.

She has largely ceased to see her mother as a parent, but a purveyor of an expensive wish list.

I appreciate for @ChopinanChampagne that these posts are very painful, but denial will not serve any purpose in the coming years.

Just want to echo for others that these must be painful to read and you are a great mum.

The therapist’s advice, from the old thread, to keep the channel of communication open but to limit any gift giving to inexpensive token items is still apt!

Oh @ChopinandChampagne

Gosh having read the previous thread the similarities with our family LB are astonishing….
love bombing at the start ✅
-Removal from friends ✅
-create conflict within a stable family specifically with the mother ✅
-not wanting to work hard but have expensive tastes ✅

• living frugally except when he wants something (like a big birthday), then there are apparently no limits✅

create conflict with siblings ✅ -hatred of gay people, horrible racist ✅— -Constant surveillance including shared email ✅ ’we come as a package’ ✅ -obsessed with inheritance ✅ -envy at having grown up in a wealthier/stable family ✅

sadly, we are 25+ years into this and my sibling cannot see she has been brainwashed. Sadly they has gone past the point of no return for me having acted on the LB instruction to accuse me of the very things they themselves have done out of greed. I just wanted to say it’s very difficult being the parent in all of this as opposed to being the sibling so I can see why your DD’s may have found it easier to move on than you have done plus you have grief to process in addition to this upset.

sending strength to you.

I see so much of the current dynamic in the thread from 2018. Chopin was even paying the phone bill then as well!

Chopin forced into apologising to LB, DD going silent for months and then getting back in touch just before her birthday, then demands for all money to be transferred, white goods to be bought as 'they had no money' (that tends to happen when you refuse to be a wage slave). And the breath-taking rudeness and manipulation: DD1 visited alone fleetingly after Christmas 2016. She had called me after I sent Advent gifts to say what should she do with BF's as he didn't want anymore to do with us

Who the hell phones to say what shall I do with this gift you sent as my boyfriend hates you? I can well believe that he put her up to it but she didn't have to do it.

Always centring around gifts and money (preferably both), playing the two sets of parents off against each other, DD as the victim and Chopin as the rescuer.

I of course agree with everyone, I do think @SquishyGloopyBum 's message is the right one - breezy and without a mention of gifts.

I actually wouldn't mention abuse to her, as it will just be another stick used by LB to beat Chopin, and something she will be forced to 'apologise' for if she ever wants to see the DGC again. And then if Chopin ever needs to raise abuse concerns to the police, this will all come out as 'my MIL accused me of abuse before but here's a letter from her recanting it all, she is clearly mad'.

Hi Chopin
just gone back over the 2018 posts….
i saw this on a different post but rings so true
‘Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results’

maybe watch groundhog day because thats the sort of loop you are in and will continue to be in until you accept your daughter is not going to change anytime soon and lb will never change.
stop with the presents. Return what you have been sent. You seem to adore giving gifts, so instead go to the local food bank or refuge and gift £300 in turkey dinners.

This part stood out to me from the previous thread - 'She said 'you are rich, why don't you just give me the money?' Also that BF didn't want to have any contact with any family members at all. I said how does that work, what if you get married, won't we be invited, she was upset, said 'I don't know, mum'. We hugged, she said she loved me, but she also said that BF talked a lot of sense and she saw us all differently now. We had a nice family day, I thought, the next day, I saw her off at the station and again we hugged, said we loved each other etc. We were still texting daily.'

Right there is entitlement, even if LB has been the one to manipulate her way of thinking, she is a willing participant in the games that she plays with her mother. To think that she should be able to leave university and never work because she knows she can turn the screws on @ChopinandChampagne when she wishes to.

The pattern has to be broken and I fear you have to let your daughter go until she wakes up, if she ever does. With you playing the same games with her you fall into the same roles over and over again and your daughter is cruel with the way she speaks with you and handles you, but she does it because she can - the same old arguments come up again and again because you fall into the trap every time.

I'd have one last conversation with DD, I'd tell DD that I know she's in an abusive relationship, she's being coerced, emotionally and financially abused

This will make the rift a lot worse. Most people don't want to admit they're in an abusive relationship, until they come to that conclusion themselves.

And anything said on the phone is probably heard by LB on speakerphone- this is definitely sommething my controlling step mum ensures happens.

I agree that if you don't change anything nothing will change. My MIL tiptoed around my SIL (the narcissist who coercively controls my BIL) for 30 plus years. Everything they wanted was funded by MIL over the years. He worked, but minimally, she never worked 'because she has pets'. They pled poverty but have ended up, now retired, as millionaires several times over due to sheer grifting from the in laws, plus SIL persuading her own mother to cut out her own siblings from her will.

It upset my DH terribly to see his mum be so horribly abused all her life by the pair of them. It also affected his relationship with his mum because he saw BIL and SIL being given so very much material stuff - money, property, gifts, their children's university fees paid, whilst we were never offered such gifts. We always saw that it was because MIL was trying to curry favour with the pair of them, but felt a lot like rewarding bad behaviour. MIL knew we wanted nothing to do with them, but constantly talked about them to us which whilst we knew it was because she was in a state of agitation and nervousness, felt to us on some level that she was being disrespectful to us too.

This is in no way a criticism of you dear Chopin. It's just a view from a family member who saw a very special mum abused in the same way that you have been.

Thanks so much for all of your replies. I finally sent a response early this morning, which I thought was conciliatory, line in the sand, want to have a relationship, token gifts, not treading on eggshells etc, firm but fair. I was feeling relaxed after sending what I thought was a measured reply. I have now received an 'angry wasp' sort of response.

I am so tired of it. I just feel like saying 'go away'. I was prepared to go to Ireland, but I don't think they realise how difficult it is for me to go alone, and be alone, without DH, in a hotel for long evenings, dinner and breakfast. Also, how much there is to carry. I really don't mind taking things which they can't buy in Ireland, but they are having things delivered to me to avoid the duty. I said last time that it would be better for me to bring over an old suitcase full of stuff and they could just get rid of the suitcase, but she said it's hard to get rid of rubbish in Ireland, so LB might expect me to bring it back to the UK full of rubbish (at £35 per case per journey!).

So depressed. And thanks to chemicalworld for reviving the old thread, which brought home painful memories, but also showed that it is the same old patterns of behaviour.

I apologise for not replying individually. Whoever said they are 'emotional vampires' was right, they just suck all the life out of me. I feel debilitated.

Me - 'I am sorry that I overreacted when we spoke last week. It wasn't about the crosses, just that it felt like a rejection which brought memories of other rejections bubbling to the surface.
Nothing has been fake. I love you and I really enjoyed the time which I spent with you and the family, but especially the time we spent together in Carrick and our meal out at the restaurant. I enjoyed every moment of it and, when the Beatles song came on in the coffee shop, I felt that Dad was with us. Dad loved you from the moment you were born until the moment he died, and he would not want you to be sad or have anything but good memories of him. I believe he watches over us all. That time we spent together felt like how we used to be, natural and at ease, and a big step forward.
I don't understand why you would think I have no tolerance for your Christian beliefs. I was baptised and confirmed into the Christian faith and you and your sisters were also baptised.
Of course I wanted you to be happy on the day you married and I understand why you and LB may not have wanted us there. A marriage is between two people and it is up to them who they want to share their day with. The thing I really struggle with is why you didn't want to tell us about DGD1. I don't think that is something which I will ever understand, to be honest. I am trying to come to terms with it, but clearly I am not there yet, which is my issue to deal with, as we can't change the past.
I would like to think that we can make things work but, realistically, this is going to take time. I agree that we must be honest with each other and I don't want to feel that I can't be open or that I have to 'tread on eggshells'. What do you think?
Regarding gifts, I note what you say about the cow. I do think that money and gifts have caused some issues in our relationship. I have often bought the wrong things, buying items which were more 'frivolous' than useful, or just items which you didn't want or need. I also think that maybe I have subconsciously been trying to 'buy' your love with gifts and, of course, that was never going to work. In future, I will not buy impulsive or spontaneous gifts and, between adults, I suggest that we don't buy anything more than token gifts. I have all I need and I suspect you do too. I would like to continue to buy gifts for the children but will liaise with you before buying anything.
I don't know about coming to Ireland or whether you still want me to come. The weather is so bad here, and forecast to continue over the weekend, so the flight may be cancelled. Also, X - who takes care of Y (my dog) - has had a flare-up of her rheumatoid arthritis (she is the same age as DD3) and is quite ill at present, although she is hoping to be better by the weekend. That said, I would like to come and see you and LB and the children, but I don't want there to be any tension or atmosphere. I just want to come and be happy and enjoy Christmas with you all, as well as DGD2's birthday xxx

DD1 reply - Why do you think there are issues with regards to money? What is the issue you have? I dont understand why you seem so mistrusting of us so please be as truthful as you can so I can understand.

they are having things delivered to me to avoid the duty

But you will be liable for that if you get caught in customs, Chopin. Plus it simply isn't reasonable for you to have to try to carry so much stuff on your own.

Honestly - send it over, pay the duty for them, and have done with it. You're being manipulated into feeling that if you don't go, you aren't trying to mend the rift. With the travel chaos this Christmas, it would be mad to attempt the journey even without all the animosity and excess baggage both literal and metaphorical.

it's hard to get rid of rubbish in Ireland

She means it might cost them some money. It looks as if household recycling sites may not accept such a wide range of items as they do in the UK.

how difficult it is for me to go alone, and be alone, without DH, in a hotel for long evenings, dinner and breakfast

I wouldn't go again unless you can find a travel companion. I wonder if one of your other DDs might be prepared to go just to stay in the hotel with you, not to have to see her sister.

But for now I wouldn't go at all.

I dont understand why you seem so mistrusting of us so please be as truthful as you can so I can understand.
Straight from the mouth of LB this one. You've already given her more detail than is really useful (denying the existence of DGD1, she's never going to apologise for that) but now she wants more so that it can be twisted and used against you later.

I wouldn't reply to the message. Just leave it til the weekend and discover you're unable to travel, then deal in practicalities.

DD1 reply - Why do you think there are issues with regards to money? What is the issue you have? I dont understand why you seem so mistrusting of us so please be as truthful as you can so I can understand.

So you open your heart and she immediately wants to discuss money.

TBH I would leave it at that. If she wants to respond to anything you've actually raised, she can. This is the most blatantly, so far that I have seen, that she has responded so heartlessly and selfishly. I'm actually disgusted that a grown adult would write that in response. She is a brat. She is happy for you to be in the dark about the questions you've asked but demanding answers about money?

I don't really see how you can get out of this one without a big unravelling of some home truths, which understandably, I doubt you have the emotional energy to deal with right now.

Interesting that they have honed in on the money but not on the gifts.

I dont understand why you seem so mistrusting of us

"Are you responding to a different message? I have not said I mistrust you."

So you open your heart and she immediately wants to discuss money.

Yep. Says it all.

And honestly, like a poster upthread I think it's possible that continued access to you and your funds, even if only through inheritance, is acting as an incentive for LB here. I would also agree that DDs sense of entitlement when it comes to your money is really, really telling.

Hmm, well I would list all the gifts they have either demanded or rejected. It is totally reasonable to only give things to the children now, only small, normal things though, or it will be exploited. It is not reasonable for them to expect to dictate every gift you buy for your own grandchildren though.
They are perfectly comfortable financially, they are over 30 - how old are they now Chopin, 31/32 ?
Obviously you suggesting token gifts for adults has not gone down well !

I think LB wrote the reply.

Hard to get rid of rubbish…well he dug a hole to dispose of asbestos!

As a gesture of goodwill you could box up the stuff, pay for it to be couriered (economy tariff) and pay the duty (in advance if possible), in lieu of travelling over to Ireland and let that be the last big spend for them. Or have the stuff sent to his parents and they can have the pleasure of arranging transportation/collection.

Meanwhile spend Xmas with your other DDs not lingering in a hotel on your own waiting to be allowed over.

Of course if you were truthful re the money issue then LB would be apoplectic and there would be no coming back from that!

DD1 reply - Why do you think there are issues with regards to money? What is the issue you have? I dont understand why you seem so mistrusting of us so please be as truthful as you can so I can understand.

That feels like a trap :(

“I have never said I mistrust you. I love you. I am going for a lie down now as I feel a headache coming on. Love mum”

She’s he’s not answered any of your points so don’t get drawn into answering hers. Take a break. Withdraw for now. He wants the details to be used against you as evidence again. Don’t play the game.

@ChopinandChampagne Of course you don't want to go to Ireland after all this animosity. To spend time with people who are openly angry with you or whatever. Absolutely no one would like to go and visit people (esp in another country) when there's this sort of atmosphere.