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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Family rift - how to heal?

140 replies

Swiftswallows · 17/01/2018 06:49

NC'd for this.

I am recently retired, happily married for many years and 3 adult DC, the youngest are still at uni and the eldest, DD1, graduated a few years ago. DD1 fell in love with one of her housemates in her 2nd year and he came to stay several times and they seemed happy.

DD1 said that she and BF wanted to buy a house together and would I give her some money. He had money from grandparents (about £35k) and she wanted me to give her a similar sum so that they could buy a house mortgage free in a part of the country where it is possible. Otherwise, BF had been thinking of buying jointly with his DP.

I wanted to help if I could so said I would let her have the money but it had to be expressed to be a loan as, if they split up or anything happened to her, then I would want the money to come back to the family and, if anything happened to me the money would have to come back into the estate, so that it could be taken account of and it would be fair to her siblings on distribution. She was happy with that and they found a house, a fixer upper, at a good price. I didn't see it, but saw the particulars. The offer was accepted and I withdrew money from my pension to help fund the purchase.

I then began to see a different side to BF. He wasn't keen on a Deed of Trust, was reluctant to have a structural survey (even though the agent had said there was a problem with the roof), and flatly refused to have any searches done. This and other incidents caused me to have concerns that DD1 might become trapped in a controlling relationship (I did have a thread on MN at the time and most posters thought there were a lot of 'red flags'). He and DD1 were also quarrelling a lot, the house purchase was causing a lot of tension, at a time when DD1 was about to take her Finals,, and things came to a head when she had been sobbing in her room for a long time and I effectively threw him out. First I asked nicely and then I said I would call the police if he did not leave, that I didn't like him, thought that he was controlling and not good enough for my daughter. So he left, giving me a horrible glare on the way out.

I was shaking, DD1 came out of the bathroom, where she had been sobbing for about half an hour and, after receiving a few texts from him, she went after him. They went to his DP who agreed to lend them the half of the purchase price that I was going to lend, the purchase completed and that was that.

I felt wretched afterwards, that I had let DD down by insulting the one she loved. I tried to ring him and sent various emails saying I was sorry, but he said he was too busy to reply. DD1 wanted us to make up and I thought we had, as best we could. I met him for a drink and said sorry and gave him a hug, this was just before DD1's graduation, and we attended the graduation together and a celebratory meal. I also offered DD1 the money to buy BF's DPs' share of the house and she asked BF but he said no.

They then came to stay with us a few times and I said to BF a few times I was very sorry again about asking him to leave, that I had just been overprotective, but I hoped we were ok and he said that we were. During one of these visits he looked at me and said his DPs wanted their money out of the house. DD1 also mentioned to me about buying the DPs out. However, I didn't have the money at that stage as I had put it towards our retirement home. I said to DD1 that I was worried about getting involved in another transaction because of the trouble it caused but, if I ever did, it would have to be on the same basis, but she shook her head. At that stage we still had, I thought, a close relationship, she said I was her 'best friend and role model', and she took me on a European city break for a couple of days for a Mother's Day' gift.

It was then DD2's graduation a year after DD1's (she is now a postgraduate). I had booked a hotel and a celebratory meal, all agreed with DD1, all everyone had to do was turn up and enjoy the occasion. But tensions began to arise. DD2 could only obtain 2 tickets for the graduation which she wanted me and DH to have so her BF and sister watched on the big screen in the bar. DD1 had acquired 2 dogs and had previously said they could no longer stay over but would come for the ceremony and the meal. They arrived just after the ceremony (DD1 said she was watching it on her mobile phone) and left half way through the meal. There was a bit of an atmosphere although DD1 had posed for photos happily. DD2 had asked DD1 to be there for her before the ceremony for moral support, she was very anxious, and felt a bit let down. DD1 said she and BF only wanted to come together and had rejected DH's suggestion that BF maybe catch a later train so the dogs would not be left alone too long. A few days later DH and I received emails from DD1 saying we didn't make BF welcome and also one from him saying how he would never forget being made to leave my house and my insults, and criticising DD2. DD2 has not spoken to DD1 since, she was so hurt that DD1 wouldn't be there for her, but said that would have probably blown over, but couldn't understand how DD1 would let BF send the email.

DD1 visited alone fleetingly after Christmas 2016. She had called me after I sent Advent gifts to say what should she do with BF's as he didn't want anymore to do with us. When DD1 visited, she didn't seem to want to discuss anything, but when I opened the conversation she said I had let her down over the house and nobody welcomed her life partner. She said 'you are rich, why don't you just give me the money?' Also that BF didn't want to have any contact with any family members at all. I said how does that work, what if you get married, won't we be invited, she was upset, said 'I don't know, mum'. We hugged, she said she loved me, but she also said that BF talked a lot of sense and she saw us all differently now. We had a nice family day, I thought, the next day, I saw her off at the station and again we hugged, said we loved each other etc. We were still texting daily.

I saw her with DD3 for a meal in February last year and DH and I went up to visit her for 2 days last April (we stayed in a hotel nearby), and all seemed fine. We invited BF to join us for dinner etc but he declined, but DD1 seemed fine and happy. She had drawn a lovely picture for me as a birthday present, which must have taken her hours, drove us to the station, hugged us and told us how much she loved us etc. She texted Happy Birthday a few days later, and then silence, for 6 whole months, did not reply to texts, phone calls, emails from anyone in the family. I had to ring the mobile 'phone company (I still have the contract) to see if she was ok. I was frantic, I went through a whole bereavement scenario, but also hated seeing other family members such as DH so hurt and bewildered.

Since she got back in touch, there have been a number of very long calls with everyone except DD2. BF and DP sold house which made a good profit and DD1 and BF have bought a house. DD1 did a lot of the work doing up the house and driving BF to DIY shops, as well as all cooking, cleaning etc. DD1 has a tiny share of the house to reflect small inheritance she put towards it, but the rest is owned by BF.

I have said to her in the conversations we want to try to get to know BF and suggested family counselling, said what can we do. Suggested we all went away somewhere and talk things through. She said BF might see us if we treat her right and she has also said to DH and me that she effectively wants money, that we let her down over the house etc. We have said that we don't have it at the moment (we have moved into the retirement home, but not sold house yet, that we want to help all of the DC when we can.

DD1 have not had jobs since leaving uni as they don't want to be 'wage slaves' or 'mortgage monkeys'. They live simply and are planning to grow their own produce, but they still struggle to get by on JSA. I feel disappointed that they won't get jobs and are living off the taxes paid by nurses and teachers, and they know that we don't approve , but we have never rowed about this as such. DH and I are not interfering parents, we want DCs to be happy and fulfilled.

DD1 has not told us of her new address although she has said that she and BF are happy to update each other on our lives by email, as that is the level of contact they feel comfortable with. He doesn't want to see us and she doesn't see anyone without him as they 'come as a package'.

I don't know where we go from here. I suppose emails are better than the silence, and hopefully things will improve, but I struggle with it all. There have been several significant family occasions which DD1 has not attended. The family is incomplete but it has become the new normal. And I worry so much about DD1. She has no friends in the area they have moved to, no job, no security. On the other hand, she has somewhere to live and does seem happy.

So sorry this is so long. I know that in many ways there is nothing I can do, she must lead her own life, but I would be grateful for any words of wisdom, especially from anyone who has been in a similar position.

OP posts:
MrsBertBibby · 17/01/2018 08:02

Don't give her any money. Why does she think the fruits of your wage slavery should go to stop her being a mortgage monkey? Disrespectful lazy pair of shits.

Dodie66 · 17/01/2018 08:26

How are they managing to buy a house if they are on JSA?

Swiftswallows · 17/01/2018 08:34

With the sale proceeds of the house they sold.

OP posts:
Swiftswallows · 17/01/2018 08:34

They are obviously not claiming any housing benefits.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 17/01/2018 08:59

Your DD1 was targeted by this person (he sees you all as a wealthy family to sponge off) and has been also well and truly manipulated by her controlling abusive boyfriend. These are his words that she really utters and he has really got into her head; she is the muse to his Svengali figure. He is a master manipulator and she has been completely played.

Its such a shame she did not manage herself to get away from this person. There were many red flags re their whole relationship far earlier on (I seem to recall an earlier thread of yours) and unfortunately her life has unravelled as a result. I would think that he continues to rule it over her at home and does nothing whilst she lives a life of servitude. He has certainly managed to isolate her almost completely from you people. Of course he does not want you to know where they live, this is precisely what controlling types do.

Keep the e-mail communication line open and I would contact Womens Aid if you have not already re your DD for their advice also. You are going to have to box clever with someone like her so called BF because he is not going to let go of her at all easily particularly now he has her on a tight leash.

I sincerely hope that she will one day escape from him; abuse like he has and continues to show her takes an awful long time, years even, to recover from.

mindutopia · 17/01/2018 09:50

Absolutely do not give her any money. He sounds like he is controlling and manipulating her and you will be enabling that if you financially support her.

My dh and I are full time working professionals and my parents are quite well off (weren’t always but my stepdad who my mum met when I was in my 20s is quite wealthy, growing up though definitely we struggled). I would never ‘demand’ they give me money for a house. I certainly wouldn’t expect them to do so to buy with a boyfriend in a relationship that was fractious and where there were no legal protections in place to protect me or your investment. Let them get jobs and save their own money or buy a caravan and live simply somewhere where they can survive without full time income. In a stable relationship where they were married and financially secure and you wanted to help, great. But in these circumstances you’ve done the right thing to protect her as much as you can.

Beyond that, keep the door open if she wants to reach out and continue to be in touch with her and let her know you’re there and care about her. If she is ready to leave she can come to you. You can mourn how the relationship has changed but you can’t force her to do the right thing. We are in a similar (sort of) situation with my MIL who is being manipulated in a controlling relationship and has walked away from her children and grandchildren. It’s sad and especially painful to see how it’s hurt of children, but we’ve had to accept she’s an adult and can make her own decisions and we cannot make her do any differently except to be there to support her if she ever does come to her senses. It’s hard but I think keep doing what you’re doing but don’t enable his manipulation in any way.

Swiftswallows · 17/01/2018 10:28

Thank you so much for your messages. I was expecting people to say that I was controlling by wanting to have safeguards around the money and not welcoming the BF. I have honestly tried so very hard and I have been consumed by guilt and trying to make things better, although the rest of the family do not see any of this as my fault, but I spend hours agonising over it all. The thing is, we got on so well with her previous long term BF (whom she dumped for the new one), he apparently misses us all a lot. And the other 2 DDs BFs also like us a lot, we are all going skiing together, I have always gone out of my way to make their friends welcome, but have reallly started to doubt myself.

Attila, you are spot on. DD1 has started to parrot his words and uses phrases which are his language. I absolutely feel that he is manipulating her and trying to manipulate me through her.

She got back in touch just before her birthday, which the rest of the family were cynical about, but I did give her money for her birthday and for Christmas, but only what I would have done anyway. She said they had no money and I wanted her to have a good Christmas. A also offered to buy her a present for the new home and she has recently emailed, a friendly and chatty e-mail but not responding to my suggestion of family counselling, saying they would like a freezer costing nearly 350 pounds and to transfer the money to her account, along with any birthday or Christmas money. I told her that family members had sent cards which I thought contained money and offered to forward them, but she said just to take the money out and transfer it. I suppose because she doesn't want me to have her address.

She said that it was her decision to cut off contact, but that BF supported her. I honestly believed he manipulated her. He knows I love her so much that I would do anything for her, but I still feel hurt and angry (but am trying to keep a lid on it, other DDs have been a great support but not fair to offload on the, they think I should go for counselling myself). DH is very sensible and supportive but upset himself although tries no to show it.

I will definitely keep the doors open, but I fear if I don't provide money she will not be allowed to contact us. She even copies him in on emails now and I have no doubt that he sees everything and monitors everything. My only hope is that she does get some sort of a job so that she will meet other people. At the moment they are together 24/7 and I live a few hundred miles away and have only seen her twice in a year.

OP posts:
Notasperfectasallothermners · 17/01/2018 10:37

Be patient op. Don't give cash at all /gifts. She has stated she sees your relationship on a different level, you need to wait until she can see why on her own - ie that he is to blame fully for this whole sorry saga. She isn't a pay per view child so don't think handing over cash will change anything - leave them to it is unfortunately all you can do. Keep your contact light so she thinks is you have accepted things and see how she reacts. Likely she will panic that she is now stuck with him alone. He isn't genuine.

Swiftswallows · 17/01/2018 10:45

Sorry about your situation utopia. I don't understand how a mother can walk away from her DC and DGC.

OP posts:
springydaffs · 17/01/2018 10:53

Very positive that you are still in contact, even if it's only emails.

It seems clear he is controlling her. That glare was his resolution he would make you pay. He's certainly done that.

Take heart. The time will come when she will revolt against his control. You can only wait. Do you pray?

Keep up the email contact, don't make a fuss but stay loving and amenable. And wait. So hard Flowers

Swiftswallows · 17/01/2018 11:02

Springy you are right. He wanted to make me suffer and he has succeeded. I hate to make enemies but he is one for sure. I don't think I was wrong about him, just incredibly stupid to let him know.

OP posts:
Swiftswallows · 17/01/2018 11:05

I don't pray, well maybe sometimes. I was so desperate I consulted various on line psychics to try to get some comfort that she would come back, but of course that was stupid and they all said different things and Dh said, rightly, I was wasting my time and money. I just feel so helpless.

OP posts:
Greensleeves · 17/01/2018 11:12

How heartbreaking this must be for you Sad

I agree with pp who have said not to give any more money. I think he is a controlling bastard and he is dangling her in front of you when he wants money/gifts, essentially selling contact with her to you.

I appreciate that it's easy for me to say stop giving them money, when he has your daughter in a situation where you might not hear from her if the financial gifts are off the table.

I think it is an unhealthy pattern to continue in though, he is controlling you as well as her and it could be prolonging a bad relationship. I hope with all my heart that your dd finds the strength to get the hell away from this man. I would write to her making it clear that she will always have a home and support and protection with you and that you will never stop loving her. That's what I needed to hear when I was trapped in a bad relationship.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 17/01/2018 11:25

Hi swiftswallows,

"I told her that family members had sent cards which I thought contained money and offered to forward them, but she said just to take the money out and transfer it. I suppose because she doesn't want me to have her address".

Its he who is running the show here not her. She is basically his mouthpiece and this is all his doing along with his words. It would not surprise me either if he was actually writing these e-mails
or is standing over her when she is typing them. He is certainly monitoring all her communications with the outside world.

Do not give her, well him really, any money or any gifts (those could be sold). She is indeed not a pay per view child as Notasperfect states.

Would also continue to do as Springey has suggested i.e. keep up the e-mail contacts and stay amenable. If she does ever manage to break free of him do not let her go back!!!.

Talk to Womens Aid, they unlike those pyschics won't rip you off. They could really help you here.

No to any family counselling either; its not warranted here. He should be prosecuted as coercive control is now a crime.

springydaffs · 17/01/2018 11:55

I don't agree about not giving them money.

It is very probably why he allows contact between you. Yes it's all wrong but at least you're in contact with her. That is powerful - your relationship history is a reminder to her that all isn't as he says. Yes he's brainwashed her at the moment but regularly hearing from you will break some of the power of his control, even if that isn't obvious to her or you.

I fear if you stop giving to her he will close down the contract. So keep up the contact, even if this is the only way to do it for now.

springydaffs · 17/01/2018 12:04

*contact not contract

DianaPrincessOfThemyscira · 17/01/2018 12:13

I remember your previous post about him kicking off about the graduation.

How do you think ‘she’ would react to calling ‘her’ bluff? (I put it like that because I think he’s at least monitoring the emails of not directly writing them). Tell her you’re not prepared to have a money and email relationship with your daughter and you want to see her. It’s rude to not share her address with you, and how upset you are that she doesn’t want you to know where she lives?

I mean from the other side, if this is going No Contact because of whatever reason, you can’t do that while asking for and accepting money.

I really feel for you. She sounds totally in thrall to her boyfriend.

welshmist · 17/01/2018 12:18

We have set up a trust for our own children who are married. One of the partners families would have an absolute egg if they ever got wind of it. Alarm bells rang when they were courting because the in-laws had robbed another family blind. Without the trust I dread to think what would happen to the family money.

springydaffs · 17/01/2018 12:19

Erm no, don't go in all guns blazing, demanding your rights.

It really doesn't work in a situation like this. Normal rules don't apply.

The truth is, hard as it is to face, 'they' have all the power. If you don't do what he says, you will lose all contact.

It's not much of a choice but it's the best one you have. At least you're in contact - don't jeopardise that if at all possible.

another20 · 17/01/2018 12:27

I think your should give her nothing she wants but everything she needs. Time for compassion and tough love.

What she needs is to know that you all love her unconditionally and are always there for her.

I would save every penny until the day in the future when she needs it - ie when she has finally left him, is homeless and is very much out of his clutches.

If you plan to give money to each of your DD bu selling your house - I would hold back.

The money you give is just fuelling and prolonging the situation - bit like an addict. Let them reach rock bottom and be forced to get jobs in the real world where hopefully she will meet normal people and see this toxic relationship for what it is. Or if they run out of money and don't get jobs, the stress will increase and but pressure on the relationship so hopefully it will implode.

Just be ready and waiting without any judgement - don't give her any money then either as she might well use this to go back to him.

Does any of the rest of the family have contact? Even behind you back? Could they be giving her money? Why do they say that you are/were OOO or to blame?

Can you link to your previous thread?

Cricrichan · 17/01/2018 12:38

How awful op. And don't kick yourselves about telling him to go or the money because I can guarantee that he would have found another reason to isolate her and get her away from you.

There's nothing you can do I don't think until she realises herself. I'd just keep the lines of communication open and keep ensuring that she's always welcome at any time and for any reason.

MyBonnieLiesOverTheOcean · 17/01/2018 13:14

I remember your previous threads and this situation sounds absolutely heartbreaking for you.

He sounds like he has set up a one man cult for your daughter to follow. Doe she have any friends at all or has he has manipulated and isolated her from everyone?

Re: the initial sum of money for the house purchase. You were being entirely sensible to insist on a Deed of Trust and if he truly had your daughters interests at heart he would not have objected. However if he hadn't used this conflict as a starting point for isolating your daughter, he would have found another issue.

It sounds like there will never be a normal relationship between you all. He will not want to go to family therapy. He's got what he wanted....everything except the money.

If you give her the share of the sale of your house, there is a possibility that he will then have everything he wants and your daughter will then be encouraged to completely cut contact with you.

I would absolutely not transfer them any money at all. I would offer to send a birthday card for her with a cheque (i.e. get an address), or to meet her and give cash but would not just transfer money. I would also not open cards from other people and transfer cash to your DD. If she wants them she can come and get them or she can provide you with an address to forward them on.

You can let her know that you love her and will be always there for her, but you are unhappy that she has cut you out of her life and that you will not give her money while she refuses to see you.

I'm so sorry for you - it sounds like an absolute nightmare.

WeiAnMeokEo · 17/01/2018 13:15

I'm so sorry you're going through this. My younger cousin was with a horrendous guy - even married him - who cut her off from all our family. Her mum was devastated, but did similarly to you - regular contact just saying she was there and loved her. Just keeping a chink of light shining into the box he kept her in. It was so painful, but she did eventually leave him and come home. I think you're absolutely doing the right thing.

Didiusfalco · 17/01/2018 13:17

Oh this is horrible. I remember your last post too.

With regards to the money I would be keeping it to token amounts, certainly not paying out £350 for a fridge freezer. Say £25-£50 for a birthday- no amount that could fund their lifestyle. Don’t be drawn in to discussions about cash, keep it positive and neutral ignoring any provocations. I too think he is monitoring everything and you need to keep your cards close to your chest while maintaining the lines of communication.

The other thing I was wondering is whether the boyfriend has a less antagonistic relationship with your dh? Might it be worth you stepping away and dh becoming the main communicator?

RaspberryBeret34 · 17/01/2018 13:20

Your poor family and DD1. He is absolutely controlling everything and it isn't your fault. He insists they have no jobs because that increases his control over her.

I'd just keep emailing her, don't force anything but keep inviting her to do things and come to family events. And her sisters and Dad can email her too - do everything you can so she knows she has a loving family waiting for her. Keep reassuring her you love her and that you and the rest of the family are there for her. I think you just have to hope that she is ready to leave him at some point and at that point, she will know you don't blame her for the rift and will be there for her. Can you travel to near her and suggest lunch?

I'd send on the money from relatives and a small financial gift for her birthday and Christmas as well as the money for the fridge freezer as you have offered it (otherwise the BF will be able to use that "broken promise" to widen the rift). However, don''t give her any more larger amounts, certainly not a lump sum from the house and no more larger gifts as that will just give him more reason to control her. If you give your other DDs money then keep DD1s aside for her (I'd ask your other DDs not to tell DD1 about any money they receive).