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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Where is ChopinandChampagne? LB update?

1000 replies

gianfrancogorgonzola · 07/11/2022 12:34

Really hope you see this C&C, I was following your other threads (name change a lot) and wanted to check in to see how you are.

🙏🏼

OP posts:
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5
skeemee · 11/12/2022 21:56

Interesting that your DD1 wants you and her sisters to forget the past, and to send cards etc. however, she (or he) always brings up that you didnt approve of LB (quite rightly).

he treated her horrendously, you protected her by throwing him out, and you have had to prostrate yourself over this for many years. It’s what any good mother would have done.

please never apologise again for this. You were right. In fact, I wish you had never apologised in the first place as it’s set the tone of him controlling you too! He’s a real piece of work.

You have been too nice for too long. Start to use your “scary lawyer” alter ego. They don’t deserve the kind thoughtful mother that you are.

skeemee · 11/12/2022 22:10

Also just looked at the Cambridge babies website.

holy moly

so much for them living a frugal life! £40 for a babygro?!? They are taking the absolute p*. A pp had a great idea - donate these items to a local refuge for a family who needs them, and will appreciate them. Im sure your DD1 would agree, that’s a very Christian thing to do.

if you must send gifts, make charity donations in the children’s names, and put an equal amount in savings accounts to be gifted when the children are older (and hopefully wiser).

whatwouldAnnaDelveydo · 11/12/2022 23:44

I'm sorry I didn't read the updates after the phone catastrophe. I'd like to ask you, @ChopinandChampagne what did you expect from her after sending the crosses. Did you want her to confront LB about them? You KNOW she's not capable of that.

You put her in a terrible spot. She had to either displease you or the husband. (And he is the master and she is afraid of him)

Try to forget about your feelings for a second. She is trapped in the arse end of nowhere, working like a slave, with no heating, no fun, no friends, nothing. Her life is shit. All around shit.

And then you call her to make demands, and to tell about your grievances, that are all valid, but remember, your life is not shit 24/7. Hers is.

Before she breaks free from the horrible LB, she needs to get stronger. She will need help for that. Weak (emotionally battered, controlled, etc) as she is now, she can't even make a single decision, let alone disagree with him!

OldFan · 12/12/2022 00:08

Do you get the impression that she is of the attitude that 'it's hard but satisfying and ultimately what I want' or 'trying this even though it is making me miserable until the next thing comes along'?

@NatalieIsFreezing I don't think she would allow herself to think option 2. With LB, she's effectively in a cult (and I don't mean the Catholicism.) He's roped her into a certain ideology which is useful to him.

Selfridgessanta · 12/12/2022 03:22

@ChopinandChampagne i’m sorry to read what happened and send massive hugs to you.

I agree with whoever said upthread now is the time to consider your estate planning. I have a similar situation in my own family with a LB and my sibling.They play the (very) long game and inheritance is very often the goal. They see your money and feel entitled to it all so please do not let him win. Cutting off your DD1 (however galling that may sound at the moment) would mean he has not won. Your DD1 is not ‘entitled’ to inherit your and your late DH’s hard-earned. It is yours to distribute however you see fit. I think you are in the legal profession so you know you can always leave your rationale in a letter accompanying the Will and make it very clear you do not wish it to be challenged. Please also ensure your LPA’s to do with health and welfare specifically name your other daughters to make the decisions. If you want to leave something for the DGC, Leave assets which specifically cannot be sold or transferred to their mother or Father but could provide them with a future income. Or maybe a trust controlled by someone else that can specifically distribute funds for university fees etc. I wouldn’t let your DD1 know your plans though as I suspect you’d be hounded at the behest of LB until they were reinstated.

The ‘champagne taste and beer money’ your LB displays is also very familiar, sadly. As is the racism, misogyny and hatred of strong women. And the use of someone else’s money on items they wouldn’t use their own money to buy themselves. Anyone who sees through them is immediately targeted and poison dripped in the ear of someone who previously was independent until they do not know which way up they are, have no privacy, friends or money of their own. Your DD1 cannot see it now, but she will. Probably when it is far too late and LB has done something that will make the scales fall from her eyes.

if you want to distract yourself, but also have a laugh and maybe give yourself hope the scales willl fall from DD1’s eyes, watch ‘Bad Sisters’ on Apple TV. Ironically, It’s set in Ireland and has its very own LB 😉

In the meantime, all the best to you. I know exactly how frustrating the situation is but you need to put yourself first now and take joy and comfort in the relationships you have with your other daughters.

ChopinandChampagne · 12/12/2022 05:29

Thank you so much for your replies.

Ogonek - I sent the ham last year, as part of a hamper, as they had just arrived back in the UK for the birth of DGS and would have had no food on arrival. I thought that they would be pleased, and that the DGC would like playing with the hamper afterwards and maybe keep their toys in it. DD1 had also told me her pjs were full of holes, so I wanted to buy her new ones, especially as she was going into hospital, although I wanted to anyway. I was genuinely so hurt at their reaction. I thought that the candles would make the house smell warm and 'Christmassy', especially if the house were a bit cold and damp. It seems I was wrong, although I assume that the cashmere items and silk pillow case were acceptable, as they weren't mentioned or acknowledged. But I did put thought into the gifts, as I did into this one.

I remember this whole rejection of presents strategy started some years ago, when I sent an advent calendar for DGD1 (rejected because it wasn't dairy free) and a jigsaw for LB, which I know he likes, but he 'didn't want it'. At that stage, I thought we were reconciled. DD1 kept asking me what to do with the jigsaw. I said I don't know, give it away, give it to a charity shop, even put it in the bin if you don't want to do any of the former. I agree with lamaze1 that the current attitude is rude - it certainly wasn't how she was brought up - and with MrsCat1 that gifts are used as a means of control. I can just imagine LB holding up my gifts to ridicule. He demeans DD1 by criticising her family and former friends and this is part of the methodology.

RandomMess - I haven't decided about Ireland yet and I haven't responded further. I don't want to exacerbate the situation.

SirVixofVixHall - I agree that the way forward is to stop buying gifts or just give token gifts. I remember when LB first met DD1 he did give her what, for him, must have been a generous amount of gifts for her birthday. Thereafter, she was told that they could only spend £5 on each other, although they were students then. I don't think he bothers at all now. He just tells her they don't need anything and, now that she doesn't have her own bank account, I imagine that she will have to beg for and justify everything, which really upsets me.

To be fair, she rarely asks for anything for herself - although I did buy her some good boots for being on the farm - but she wants her children to have nice things. She has been 'trained' to believe that she doesn't need anything that is not strictly necessary or in any way frivolous. She was so happy to go out for that meal with me when I last visited and get dressed up. I actually do think that she values me more since the loss of her DF and was very concerned when I had a recent cancer scare (fortunately all fine).

monsteramunch - I think that you are right in saying that DD1 had emotionally disconnected and, to an extent, I was sending gifts to try to win her love and approval, as you perceptively say 'a rope that connects' me with her again.

tribpot and Blanca87 - I haven't decided yet whether to go. If I don't go it will be more ammunition for LB, who will tell DD1 that her mother is useless, unreliable, a heathen, mentally unstable etc, and best not allowed to pollute the DGC etc. The whole trip has now become quite overwhelming, apart from the emotional aspects, with so much stuff which they have ordered to this address, as well as the gifts, that I feel like a pack mule.

NatalielsFreezing - I wouldn't comment on another person's religion and I don't expect them to comment on mine, as nobody knows what is in someone's heart and soul. But the concern is that it closes their minds and hearts rather than opening them and, of course, I am terrified that they accept the RC Church's position on contraception. FerretinAFrock (marvellous user name!) - I do worry that he will want more DC, but I suspect he will struggle with the he already has when they start to develop their own personalities and rebel. Interesting what you say about DGD2, who has apparently started wetting the bed again, which DD is concerned about (although she is not quite 3, so probably not a cause for concern at this stage).

Glindira - I haven't witnessed anything untoward in LB's treatment of the DGC, although DD1 does everything for them and their attachment s very much to her rather than to him. He was quite 'short' with the DGDs but nothing physical. he just seemed tense, but maybe that was because I was there. He did seem to be trying to make a bit of an effort to be nice to me last time, but we are never going to be relaxed in each other's company.

DD1 now seems terrified of life outside this remote rural area. She genuinely seems to believe that other places are seriously dangerous, particularly London, whereas she used to visit it quite regularly, loved going to the theatre, studied at the Cordon Bleu school (before she decided to go to university), would go with her friends etc. She asked me in our last conversation if I had heard about the stabbing in Hyde Park and said, just to think, she used to go there regularly. She doesn't understand why I still visit. LB had never visited London before he met DD and asked her if there were a festival on, as it was so busy! 🤣

LittlePearl, Dery, tribpot and others who have said that they are pleased that I had the conversation, perhaps, but also disappointing to have said hurtful things to her, at a time when the relationship was improving. I literally don't know what to say to her now. I feel paralysed, as I don't want to make the situation worse and she will be on tenterhooks, waiting for my reply, which LB will scrutinise and comment upon. He reads lots of information about personality types etc and likes to analyse everyone. He is clever, so DD believes him, and he uses his ''expertise' to put down other people, although I suspect that he has some inner insecurities, including the fact that his sister appears to be the preferred child.

startingline - I am so sorry to hear about your MIL There is only so much hurt a person can cope with. This is why I am wary of forming too much of an attachment to the DGC, until they are in a position to decide for themselves whether they want a relationship with me.

ChopinandChampagne · 12/12/2022 06:16

skeemee - thanks for your support. I need to find a way of setting boundaries without causing further upset. This is what I am struggling with. LB sees the DGC as his trump card. The fact that there was a last minute change of plan when I visited meant that I did not see the DGDs. This meant that I spent the morning with DD1 and DGS, which was very pleasant and much more relaxed, giving me and DD1 a chance to talk. However, I suspect that the plans were changed either because LB had had enough of me (most likely) or to stop my seeing the DGDs - I felt bad about this, because I had promised to go back the next day.

whatwouldAnnaDelveydo - you accurately summarise my feelings and concerns. I haven't actually sent the crosses yet, I just told her about them in a text and she was very pleased. Then she called to say that she had researched them (keys of life as adopted by early Christians in Egypt) and they were unsuitable. I said I was very hurt and wanted to end the conversation but she wanted to keep it going, so everything came out. I was very upset and I expect she was too.

I absolutely take your point that DD1 is in a terrible position, doesn't have the strength or confidence to stand up to him, even if she wanted to, is isolated and cut off from everyone apart from me, LB's parents and the next door neighbours. DD did say that they had met another young couple, but she and LB had decided that they were not the type they wanted as friends. I feel that I am her only potential lifeline and that I cannot abandon her. I was chatting with someone over lunch yesterday, who has specialist knowledge of domestic abuse, and DD's relationship definitely fits the pattern. She outlined four factors and said that one was enough to show abuse - DD has at least three. She said I needed to keep contact.

NatalielsFreeezing and OldFan - I think DD1 believes she is happy. She loves her DC and LB (unfortunately) and feels lucky to live on the small holding. The countryside is lovely. She seems to have adapted amazingly well. There is no doubt that her life is hard, but it is what she has chosen. She is very different now from how she was. Her godparents, who saw her at DH's funeral after many years, though that she had become a 'zombie'. She doesn't seem to have any independent thoughts and just goes along with everything LB says; sometimes the things she says are phrases I know she is 'parroting' from him.

Selfridessanta - I have created a will trust with DD2, DD3 and the solicitors as executors. The executors have a lot of flexibility and various factors which they can take into consideration, including any marital situation, and choose when the moneys are paid out. My expressed wish is that, in general terms, the estate should be divided three ways, with each DD sharing with her own DC, but no monies to be paid to any DGC until the age of 21 at the earliest.

My thinking is that the first generation have already inherited and that, as things stand, whereas the will ostensibly treats everyone the same (I don't want to hurt DD1 by an unequal split), only DD1 currently has DC. I have no doubt that she will have a close relationship with her children as they grow up and that they will look after DD, although she theoretically is already very comfortably off (I am very worried about the situation with the bank accounts!). However, I am yet to deal with the French property, which has the potential to cause problems and conflict.

Thanks again everyone for all of your advice and support. I do need to respond to DD1 about Ireland, preferable today. Maybe I should just say something bland and let her make the choice. I don't want to be seen to be desperate to go, which I'm certainly not - but nor do I wish to seem hostile or as though I don't want to see them. The telephone conversation, whilst it may have 'cleared the air', will inevitably cast a cloud over the visit, which I know DD1 was really looking forward to. If I do go, I know that it will be wearing and emotionally draining, but it's only for a few days and then I don't need to go again until next Spring, at the earliest. But maybe I am not welcome now anyway.

SirMingeALot · 12/12/2022 07:09

Agree about the estate planning.

For Christmas, I wouldn't be going. It cannot possibly go well after the last few discussions and messages.

liarliarshortsonfire · 12/12/2022 07:11

LB certainly heard you tell the DGC that'll you'll see them tomorrow, and took the opportunity to make you look inconsistent by not allowing you to see them the following day. Maybe it's time to start being vague and not making any plans regarding DD1 or the DGC. Sentences like 'hopefully I'll see you tomorrow, but let's see' or 'the weather isn't looking great so I'm staying home and not travelling'

With regards to the crosses, can you keep them to be given to the DGC as part of your will or when they turn 21? If they are gold, and you give them, LB might sell them on. Plus they've made it clear they don't want them. As for the cow, she's requested you don't send the money, so take her at her word. As for Xmas gifts, why not start an account for the DGC and put money in each birthday or Christmas, again to be given when they are 21.

As for responding to DD1, as you said a bland email, informing her that you'll always be there for her, but maybe a visit at this time of year, isn't safe due to the snow. Or something similar. If you don't want to go op, don't go. You can still always let DD1 know you're there if she needs her without seeing her face to face.

RandomMess · 12/12/2022 07:47

I know Chopin has done her estate planning, even at 21 the DC will be so ingrained in the cult LB will get the money somehow sadly.

I wouldn't go but if you do I would not take anything from yourself bar one small inexpensive gift for each DGC.

Return the over priced baby clothes bar one item, same for the girls. After all you don't have room to carry it all anyway.

I honestly wouldn't go. I would explain you are too upset and struggling very much with the loss of DH and are run down and exhausted and not up to travelling so far.

In alternative is to shorten the trip and literally just drop the parcels off and then come back.

Never again offer to bring things over. They choose to live there they can face the reality.

Absolutely have the conversation that gifts seem to being nothing but unhappiness so from now one you accept that you will no longer exchange gifts.

whatwouldAnnaDelveydo · 12/12/2022 08:06

@ChopinanChampagne thanks for understanding my point. As someone who was in a similar situation as your DD, though not so extreme: understand that she has no bandwidth to deal with your feelings. Use MN to share them, talk to your friends, the other DD. But not her.

She can't deal with your hurt about the crosses or anything else. Don't mention it. Talk to us, talk to anyone, but don't burden her with that, or she will clam up.

Your job here (if you want it) it's too prop her up. Remember she is weak right now, so say nice things, remind her of her good points, of anything good she's ever done. Clever or difficult things she has achieved (but not in front of LB).

Remember this is not about you. Think of her as an ill person, you don't argue with someone like this, you just try to make them feel better. (With words and actions, not gifts)

SirMingeALot · 12/12/2022 08:08

I know Chopin has done her estate planning, even at 21 the DC will be so ingrained in the cult LB will get the money somehow sadly.

This is my concern, and LB's knowledge of the money that is yet to come is a substantial incentive for him to continue the relationship with DD1. She's a cash cow that can be milked a great deal more. That's how he'll be seeing it. For this reason, I'd not only disinherit but make that known.

Nepoyeah · 12/12/2022 08:14

Sorry I had missed above, but did they request the specific brand of baby clothes? As there is quite a lucrative resale market on baby clothes and I would be suspicious that they would be used for a very short time if at all then sold on. Just be wary.

I do think that again and again you demonstrate that you love to buy very thoughtful and quite extravagant gifts and they become a frequent flashpoint. It almost seems a little bit compulsive, I’m so sorry if that sounds rude, it’s just that I know from previous threads that many people have commented, including me, that they don’t get anywhere near such luxurious and generous gifts from parents and it has never harmed our excellent relationships, whereas again and again they end up causing rows and rejection.

I absolutely adore my mum and I know I was anxiously saying recently that something I’d mentioned I liked for my birthday was more expensive than I’d expected- it worked out at less than £30 each for my mum and sister between them. In fact, around £30 per person is very normal in our family, we actually really spend more on parents than them on us if anything. My dad asks me exactly what one of my dc wants and in fact I buy it, he gives the rest of us some cash between us.

Gifts with a high commercial or monetary value have such a tendency to cause family havoc of one kind or another… resentment, entitlement, calculation, manipulation, jealousy of others. Or all at once with LB!

I know that at a much earlier stage, before Ireland, you were having issues with some gifts - but here again you are buying good boots for dd (do you mean expensive dubarrys or similar?) silk pillowcases, cashmere, hampers, cows, ranges…! Be careful you’re not colluding in making this lifestyle bearable for them! Or encouraging a scenario where LB is calculating how much they can rinse you for this time, adding up what expensive ‘necessities’ they can get you to buy. That will put DD1 in a very awkward position too, because presumably LB is saying ‘why the hell is your mum ‘wasting’ money on xyz that I don’t want, why can’t you persuade her to get abc that we - I - actually want?’ You could be putting her in a very stressful rock and hard place position.

how would it feel for you psychologically just to do no presents at all this year? You’ve got the perfect excuse in that your presents just seem to upset them and they claim not to value frivolous things. But I suspect you would feel deeply uncomfortable not spending quite a lot of money in one way or another. Would you?

whatwouldAnnaDelveydo · 12/12/2022 08:14

And perhaps, in the future, you can try to mention to your DD things that she can check for herself. Like: "I have a feeling LB doesn't like when you say something intelligent" or "have you ever seen LB feel sorry/ have empathy for someone?", or "has he ever reacted well when someone said 'no' to him?"

These are just examples from the top of my head, and not the best ones. My suggestion is to make comments about things that she will be able to see for herself in the future, and hopefully will plant a seed for her to understand there's something very wrong with him.

But in the meantime, in my opinion, the most important thing is to prop her. Compliment her, say good things about her, make her feel loved. And SEEN. She probably forgot how it feels.

RandomMess · 12/12/2022 08:28

I would actually compliment LB on his astute financial planning and how happy it makes you that DD1 and the DC are financially secure as bar ensuring DD2 & 3 have suitable housing then you have plans for your estate going to charity to honour DH.

Build a narrative that DD1 will not inherit nor will the DGC even if that isn't the truth.

billy1966 · 12/12/2022 08:46

I have been googling and Coercive control is also a crime in Ireland too, and they are prosecuting cases so his financial control and abuse of her by restricting her access to martial monies is breaking the law.

The weather presently is very poor with snow and freezing conditions, absolutely not conditions to be travelling in.

I think reiterating your love for her but that you really need space to grieve her father, as you are struggling, is best.

I agree that she has been appallingly rude with her gift lists, complaints, critiques, lack of acknowledgement and general entitlement.

I think stopping all gifts bar tokens is the way forward.

Their transactional pay for view manipulation re the children, is really ugly.

No one forced her to say the ham was dry.

When you were on your own did she take the opportunity to thank you profusely for your generosity?

He wasn't there, what was to stop her acknowledging your kindness and generosity?

Nothing but her general entitlement IMO.
It must be very hard to see this.

I suspect your daughter's have the measure of their sister.

People in abusive relationships don't necessarily behave in such a nasty way to those around them.

Just as depressed people aren't always nasty to those around them.

Some people just aren't very nice at their core.

Her treatment of her grieving mother is quite dreadful and I think it is far too convenient to lay it 100% at LB's door.

She is in an abusive relationship for sure, but is that 100% responsible for her nastiness towards her parents?

I am just not convinced of that.

I think you have a real obligation to your two other children to stay well and protect yourself.

billy1966 · 12/12/2022 08:52

RandomMess · 12/12/2022 08:28

I would actually compliment LB on his astute financial planning and how happy it makes you that DD1 and the DC are financially secure as bar ensuring DD2 & 3 have suitable housing then you have plans for your estate going to charity to honour DH.

Build a narrative that DD1 will not inherit nor will the DGC even if that isn't the truth.

That is an excellent idea.

Disabusing him of any notion of a big payday🙄down the line is wise.

25 is a far better age in my view for grandchildren to inherit.

The madness and recklessness of early youth has largely burnt itself out and the realities of having to provide for oneself looms clearly.

At 25 they would be far less likely to be living at home and subject to his coercion.

ChopinandChampagne · 12/12/2022 09:14

Thanks for your replies, especially so early in the day. It's really helping me, as I am struggling a lot today.

I know I need to reply to DD but I literally don't know what to say. She has now gone into defensive mode and her position will be more entrenched. She will have been persuading LB that I am not so bad, but now he can say 'told you so'! All I can think is 'Do you want to talk?' or 'Do you still want me to come?' In fact, my dog sitter is currently ill, so there is a potential 'good' excuse for not going, but I think I can't win either way. I also don't want to reply, as I will then be anxious seeing if she responds and worrying about what she will say/more rejection.

liarliarshortsonfire - I think that there are two options regarding the crosses, either have them altered to be like the more traditional kind, or keep them until the DGC are older. I could maybe offer them as confirmation gifts, but I fear that they are tainted now.

RandomMess - maybe I could make a shorter visit. I think that DD1 must have already paid for the clothes, as the bag just arrived and she told me the cost, so is clearly expecting a refund. I said I was happy to buy clothes but she picked them.

whatwouldAnnaDelveydo - I really appreciate your posts and your perspective, as it is so difficult to know what to do or what DD1 is thinking. I do say nice things to her. In fact, when we were having coffee, she said I was the opposite to LB's parents, whom she thinks judge him too harshly and don't give him enough credit for things. I agree that I should treat her as someone who is mentally fragile and I was doing so well, which is why I am angry with myself for losing control of my feelings. I can't help wondering if I subconsciously self-sabotaged, as I don't want to be hurt again.

SirMingeALot - I did say to DD1 last year that she should not look to me for inheritance and she subsequently said words to the effect that they were financially planning, as they knew she would not inherit from me. To be fair, I don't think that's a consideration with her particularly at present, but I would be amazed if LB didn't have an eye on it. But maybe he sees his DGP as next in line!

Nepoyeah - DD1 picked and ordered the clothes. You are right about the gifts (and yes, they were Dubarry boots 😁). I think you are spot on in that LB will say why has she bought those useless gifts, get her to spend her money on something we actually want. They have the same criticism of LB's parents, whom they also think buy too many expensive gifts, albeit just for the DGC. LB and DD1 feel that his DP only care about the DGC and that they are just 'part of the wallpaper'.

billy1966 - altering the age until 25 for inheritance is a good idea, which I have already been thinking of. It all puts me in mind of 'Jane Eyre' who, when being questioned by Mr Brocklehurst as to how she should avoid going to hell, or words to that effect, replied 'I must stay well, Sir' 😂

SirMingeALot · 12/12/2022 09:19

SirMingeALot - I did say to DD1 last year that she should not look to me for inheritance and she subsequently said words to the effect that they were financially planning, as they knew she would not inherit from me. To be fair, I don't think that's a consideration with her particularly at present, but I would be amazed if LB didn't have an eye on it. But maybe he sees his DGP as next in line!

Oh yeah, it's him that'll have his eyes on the bag. So I think @RandomMess idea is a good one.

Bettyfromlondon · 12/12/2022 09:20

I don't know when you were thinking of going over but for once the awful weather and travel disruption from various strikes can do you a great favour. I suggest you stay home, enjoy the loving company of your family and friends and plan some lovely trips/ events for the coming year. More baby steps.....
Your daughter and her issues will still be there but a little emotional distance might be useful for you.

Glindara · 12/12/2022 09:30

It’s the usual trap.

He will twist anything that you do or say to subjugate, control and punish you and then distance you from your DD1.

Know what his game is.

He needs you to be mute or invisible. But he also needs to agitate and bully as this is where he gets his kicks.

He is only after your cash.

He uses your actions to hurt DD1.

She was fine with the gifts - it was only when she told him that it all exploded.

Same old. Same old.

It’s always a when not if.

You know his manipulative patterns.

I am not surprised that this has come after you experiencing nice times with your DD1 f2f - that’s a huge threat to him.

He would be sensing her connection and affection for you and will have to put a stop to it.

I see all the gifts you have selected as ones to being physical comfort - cashmere etc. I am sure as a mother it breaks your heart.

But know how this goes. The abuse cycle.

Maybe you should do the Freedom Programme online so that you can see how domestic abuse / coercive control works - not just for your DD1 - but also you.

You are broken on your grief - you do not need to expose yourself to this. You sadly have decades to come.

She isn’t going anywhere.

There are no signs that she sees him as bad.

Women who hate their abusive partners and talk about it and leave - stay and return time and time again.

Pace yourself. Protect yourself. Heal and choose to have a good life.

Suzysuz · 12/12/2022 09:42

I think the extravagant gifts have been 'something' you can do, or contribute, a way to try and show your love and care - you aren't close by, don't have that relationship with them, can't babysit and see them often etc (not that you would likely be 'allowed' anyway) but they do cause these issues so agree it's best to leave gifts completely, just put money in accounts and agree re 25yrs for DGC.

If the crosses are not totally tainted with this whole situation I would keep and put away for the DGC.

And I would not be visiting, as others have said you have lots of reasons to use with strikes/weather/dog plus it's a difficult time of year anyway. Even if DD1 really wanted you to come, it would cause so much stress and anxiety, plus LB will be wanting to make his points.

I would send the clothes, you already offered to buy them - yes they're extravagant but it's done and will be more of a drama if return/sell. You know what's in that package so it could be sent on - but don't send anything else on unless you know what it is (unless DD1 is doing the courier declaration as a collecting courier)

RandomMess · 12/12/2022 09:54

Oh dear Chopin I hear you are about to come down with Covid and can no longer fly!!

Send everything over and just take the stress out of the visit. You can say how disappointed you are not to be coming over and to talk things through in person.

villamariavintrapp · 12/12/2022 10:11

I've been lurking, because we have a similar LB in our family. Only she's an LG I suppose.
Anyway, I'm sorry you're feeling so bad about it, I agree with others it's probably good to have said it. But hard to see that now. I think partly you're feeling so bad because you thought the relationship was improving and you're angry and disappointed with yourself, but that isn't really true. The relationship wasn't improving, it was fake and superficial (she's right about that), not because that's how you are, or wanted it to be, but because they wouldn't let you be anything but. You haven't ruined anything, nothing has really changed, the genuine part of the relationship is just as fragile and tenuous as it ever was, but not more so because you told her the truth. I expect you can get the false superficial relationship back easily enough if you bow down, apologise profusely and pay him some money, but maybe this is better?
Also I expect they chose such expensive baby clothes so that they can sell them on. I'd ignore the requests for reimbursement. If you've promised them baby clothes you could always send on a bundle form eBay or similar.

tribpot · 12/12/2022 10:17

I do like @RandomMess 's suggestion, although I would go for 'some kind of dreadful virus' rather than being too specific. Just in case you do get Covid shortly thereafter!

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