Where is ChopinandChampagne? LB update?

[gianfrancogorgonzola]

Really hope you see this C&C, I was following your other threads (name change a lot) and wanted to check in to see how you are.

🙏🏼

ToffeeNotCoffee - thank you for your post. I agree that my relationship with DD1 and DGC is paramount, and pragmatism and eggshell walking are the way to go!

MrsPerfect12 - yes, they moved into the derelict house, where one of the rooms is described as 'the mould room'. No, I am not joking, and I worry about the DGC, especially DGD1, who suffers from asthma. I also worry that SIL won't take any advice on anything or pay for any specialist help, although they can now easily afford it (They have sold one of the houses in the UK, and the other sale is due to complete this week). In particular, he has recently removed asbestos from one of the outbuildings, which he buried in the ground. He wore a mask, but I am terrified that he didn't follow sufficient precautions and I believe that his clothing came into the house afterwards (he didn't wear protective clothing, as you are meant to do, just a mask). I don't even want to think about it.

Billybagpuss- lovely to 'see' you again! How are you? Yes, I am hoping that this is the beginning of a process where DD1 starts to see things through her own eyes, rather than accepting everything LB says as 'Gospel'. Baby steps! I think the realisation will eventually come through the DGC, as they grow and develop their own personalities and ideas.

The 'cash' issue hasn't entirely gone away. DD1 asks me to buy clothes, blankets, toys etc for the DGC, which I am very happy to do - I have realised that it is far better to give them what they want rather than send items which are hostages to fortune, such as last Christmas, when everything was thrown back in my face. However, when asked LB on the way from the airport what DD1 might like for her birthday, he suggested 'gold' ie an investment rather than a personal gift. I also had a discussion with DD1 over dinner, who suggested a gold sovereign from her birth year or a rare breed of cow. I said that it would be like buying an asset for their business though, upon reflection, given that she was keen on this particular breed, I did make some enquiries through the breeding association when I got back. I managed to locate a cow, not too far away from them, which they are taking delivery of next month.But it was the usual scenario; the cow was for DD's birthday present, and the next thing is that LB had arranged to go to inspect it, without DD! (although she did go in the end, having persuaded the neighbours to look after the DGDs for a couple of hours - they couldn't take them, as they only had a three seater van)

gianfrancogorgonzola - I love your user name, I feel we might have a lot in common 😃. Thank you for your support and for starting this thread. I am really moved that people care enough to remember me and to enquire about me, when they have never even met me.

billy1966 - thank you for your insightful post. I do think that DD is beginning to realise what she has lost, most of all the time with her father, whom she obviously mourns deeply. She only saw him once during the three years before his diagnosis, for a lunch which we travelled a long way to attend, with LB, at a restaurant on a Sunday, which DH had managed to arrange, and which was rather uncomfortable. That's when they told us that they had married 15 months previously. A few days later she told me she was pregnant, which I was very excited about. Then, about a month later, after we had agreed to their request for a 'loan' of £10k to purchase a house to rent out, we received a letter with photographs of DGD1, then 14 months old. The letter said they hadn't told us sooner, because they only wanted DGD to be exposed positive relationships, which I found massively hurtful at the time.

I have no doubt that LB does have his eye on the main chance, notably with regard to any inheritance from me, but also his own DP and DGP. He measures people's worth on what they can do for him or give to him. He probably tolerates me for that reason. I have had a will trust drawn up, with a later of wishes, to try to give flexibility. In principle, the estate will go three ways, with each DD sharing with her DC. I think this is fair because the DDs have already inherited but, given that DD1 is currently the only one with DC, this means she will be the only one to share, as things stand at present. She will be fine anyway, but also has a close relationship with her DC, whom I am sure will always be there for her. DH and I discussed all this, and we felt that the DGC would benefit from having some money to help them to achieve their goals and moving towards independence.

Indignation - I agree that the RC conversion is a little unexpected, but hopefully it will help them, especially the DGC, to be accepted into the local community. It is a remote, rural area, where religion is very important. It was clear from talking to DD that she is quite serious about it and she seemed knowledgeable, as though she had been thinking about it carefully. LB, on the other hand, was less so. I said that I had been confirmed when I was at university and he asked what that meant ....

PeekabooAtTheZoo, Georgieporgie29 and RandomMess (Welcome back!) - thank you for your kind messages, which are much appreciated, as are everyone else's, and I apologise if I have missed anyone out.

It's quite sad to read that the LB domination and control and nastiness is still there.

You are right though that softly softly is the way in to supporting DD1 in the hope that one day she wakes up and rescues the DGC from the oppressive childhood they are having.

I've read your previous threads but not commented. Words can't convey the scorn and disgust I feel for LB - and I really feel for the DGC... do you really anticipate any "crunch point" for your DD where she acts in their best interests and challenges him or even leaves?

It sounds like she's still in his thrall and believes he knows best even though he sounds like a moron. I assume she must realise he doesn't have a loving/ giving relationship with the kids and thinks that's fine and healthy?

Massive good wishes to you, chopin!

Maybe the RC baptism is just to get them into school?

Or will your DDs responsibilities now extend to home education?

However maybe the church is an opportunity to be involved with other families in their local community which can only be a positive step.

I am heartbroken to hear that his “discipline” of babies and toddlers is so severe that his own parents have to leave the room and this is likely the reason for their fall out.

He was able to contain himself on your visits but his DP would have seen this atrocious damaging behaviour repeatedly over the years.

Your DD’s use of the word “authority” is telling - a dressed up word for short fuse, bad temper, control and reactive emotional violence.

There is no professional support for “authoritarian parenting” because it is just the delusion of unstable people with personality disorders.

There is however loads of neuroscience research on attachment and the long term impact on a child’s emotional development in these very early years and how a sensitive, attuned caregiver is essential.

It sounds like your DD is doing her very best to love them through it - but sadly this won’t be enough to emotionally protect them with such an ogre in the home.

Walking that tight rope of staying connected enough to support and guide your DD without her or LB kicking off at some imagined slight is going to continue to be tough.

Very concerned about “the mould room” and your DGD asthma - have they seen the recent tragic U.K. news reports about little Awaab Ishak

news.sky.com/story/amp/two-year-old-boy-died-as-a-result-of-mould-infested-flat-unfit-for-human-habitation-12747927

I am also horrified at the asbestos being buried on the land, likely contaminating it, and hardly legal.

That lunch with your husband and the awful statement regarding positive influences was truly dreadful.

Lots of women end up with controlling partners but don't feel the need to deeply wound their parents in the process.

LB is indeed a very ugly character but your daughter is more aligned with him and how he treats people that I would think is easy to accept.

As a mother we want to think the best of our children, but your other daughters are not burdened with this need, and I suspect see your daughter very clearly.

I really applaud your refusal to "fix" their relationship.

Your grandchildren sound delightful.

I think as time goes on I think the challenge will be to not rush in with solutions to your daughters discomfort.

Passive murmurs of that must be difficult and I am sure you will work it out can be far more effective IMO.

From a distance it is far easier to see your daughter as quite calculating towards you.

LB's family have probably been dealing with a variation of this behaviour for many years.

His sister has the full measure of him and his parents moving closer to her is significant.

I would think they possibly are preparing for low contact going forward.

Their casual use of their children in their interactions with family, is chilling.

How you must miss the wonderful support and sounding board your husband was through this.

You come across as so kind, supportive and measured as a mother, your children were very lucky to have you growing up.

Make sure you look after yourself and take the joy and peace that your other daughters offer you.

Your really deserve it.
Sending you best wishes and strength.

You are so kind and thoughtful and eloquent. You need to be careful of him trying to control his children especially as they are living somewhere quite remote and will be reliant on parents taking them to meet friends and do social activities when older. I grew up with one very controlling parent and one, who at the time I thought didn’t know about it, but as an adult realise they were also controlled and turned a blind eye to the suffering of their children ( there were 3 of them) as it was easier for them. With me it accelerated on starting junior and then again secondary school. Every time I expressed an opinion, made a decision or said no (that one was a big trigger and still is today) I got criticised and the silent treatment. I still find it difficult to express an opinion today and I am over 50. You need to be there for your grandchildren to talk to as they might have their eyes open to it before your daughter x

@Doornish great post.

It is very hard not to feel concern particularly as the other GP's had an issue with his behaviour, finally tipping them it seems.

Hopefully they will not be home schooled, even though it is the modus operandi for men like LB who are a law onto themselves, and relish off grid living.

If they do choose to home school it will be a reason to flag the family with SS's if the OP feels it appropriate.

The combination of their circumstances could tick lots of potential red flags.

What a revolting, contemptible little man LB always has been, and continues to be.

Sending you every good wish, chopin (I’ve followed all your threads and commented previously but have since namechanged)

So glad to read your update, I am another one who followed all your previous threads and had been wondering how things were going so thank you to the OP for starting this thread. I think you have the measure of him and are playing a very sensible long game. I bet your DD1 can't wait for your visits! She appears to be maturing emotionally and realising that things weren't as she has been brainwashed by LB to believe. She will have to live with the regret of the lost relationships with her sisters and friends and with the knowledge that she hardly saw her father in his last years.

I'm another one that regularly looks for updates in the LB saga.

Chopin you are really a truly amazing mother and grandmother. I'm so pleased you're able to forge a relationship with the dgc's - I still can't believe how unbelievably cruel they were by keeping dgd a secret, and yet your love for dd1 shone through.

Thank you everyone for your posts and kind comments. I find them really helpful as, having lived through this situation for so long now (I think my first thread was over six years ago), I won't say that it is normal, but it has kind of become 'it is what it is', if that makes sense. So when friends IRL ask me about how I am and how DD1 is, I generally give a positive response, as I did in my first reply on this thread.

However, your comments have 'shone a light' and have made me realise that the situation is far from normal, in many respects. As billy1966 said, in one of her perceptive posts, people often see things more clearly from a distance. I am far more detached than I was - I have had to be, for my own mental well being - but I am inevitably involved and concerned, as it involves my DD and DGC. I have just had to accept that there are some things we cannot change or 'fix', and that I need to operate within certain parameters, if I am going to be able to have a relationship with them. These are as follows:

1. Never criticise LB either directly or indirectly;
2. Never disagree with any of their opinions or express a contrary opinion, as he will take it personally. This is actually more difficult than it sounds, as they hold some very racist views, which I find abhorrent, and which I fear will infect the DGC;
3. Always do what is requested of me, whether it is sending items for the DGC (fine), taking stuff over from the UK (fine), or being a potential referee for his shotgun licence application (not fine at all with me, for lots of reasons, but he would have applied anyway, and it would have been a black mark against me);
4. Don't be a nuisance in any way when I go there, but take taxis, stay in an hotel (both fine), and don't overstay my welcome, as I am conscious that LB only tolerates me at all, as long as I abide by the above;
5. Exercise considerable caution around gifts and do not, ever, buy gifts on impulse as they are likely to be rejected as inferior, unsuitable, or undesirable. It is always better to buy exactly what they specify, usually by sending the direct internet link;
6. Be mindful and wary that certain gifts may be converted into cash, instead of a 'personal' gift. For example, DD suggested I buy an outdoor playhouse for the DGDs and sent me a link to a lovely one, which I agreed to buy. However, instead of just arranging to buy it, as I now realise I should have done, I transferred £850 to DD's bank account, whereupon LB decided that he could build something much better himself with the money. When I visited there was just a shell of a shed, which was unusable, so the DGDs missed out on a summer of enjoying their playhouse. Similarly, the birthday gift of the cow will involve my having to obtain 1000 euros and taking it over in cash, which I would actually prefer not to do, for security reasons, and because it is just giving money to the business, rather than a personal gift for DD;
7. Be careful not to overstimulate the DGC or give them too many presents or, indeed, any presents without prior approval, or I may be rejected, like the other DGP, as a disruptive influence. I also sense that LB gets jealous if they show affection for anyone else apart from him and DD1. She, on the other hand, is delighted that I am developing a relationship with them;
8. Be aware that any planned excursions must be scrutinised in detail by LB as suitable, and do not involve inconvenience to his routine. For example, I am hoping to take the family out for a Christmas meal whilst I am there, which DD would love to do, and which I thought would give her a break from cooking. However, I have to be mindful of LB's wishes. He doesn't like eating out at all, considers it a waste of money when DD1 can cook things better, only likes meat, and can't bear any formality. The latter seemed to concern DD a lot, although there is very little formality in rural Ireland. I sense that if LB comes to the meal, she will be tense in case anything displeases him, but if I don't invite him, he will be offended. She was so much happier and relaxed when the two of us went out for dinner, she was dressed up nicely, her hair shone, and she was even wearing some jewellery which I had given her, saying that it was having a rare outing! I sense that LB doesn't like her wearing anything that anyone else has given her, just her silver wedding ring (she apparently lost it for a while, but he found it when he was going through her pockets...).

So, as long as I am compliant with the above rules, I can have a relationship with DD and the DGC. However, I do find the visits somewhat exhausting, as I am constantly aware of the need for vigilance when LB is around. In a way, I enjoy the visits more when I get back, and I can reflect on the happy memories, in the way that a tourist enjoys their holiday by looking at the photographs after their holiday is over.

I do find the visits somewhat exhausting

Even reading your post is exhausting Chopin

You are incredible to be able to maintain a relationship under all those restrictions & pressures. It's so hard 💐

He doesn't like eating out at all, considers it a waste of money when DD1 can cook things better

this is somewhat ironic considering how he got his mn nickname.

do they expect such generous gifts from you, I can understand your reluctance to get a cow, but actually if it is genuinely her interest it’s a very thoughtful gift, but it’s really expensive, my idea of value for a gift would be more chicken sized.

EarringsandLipstick, Ogonek, mcmooberry, and PuggyMum - thank you for your kind comments. I felt quite exhausted myself after typing the 'list'! 😹

Shortbread49 - I am so sorry to hear about your miserable childhood experience, and that it is still affecting you. 💐

Billybagpuss - yes, I decided that it would be a useful gift, upon reflection, and DD seemed keen. I have gently suggested that they should take out insurance, but I somehow doubt that they will. I even wonder if the house is insured, as I expect that LB believes that he could build back better. The electrical wiring looks prehistoric, which worries me, although I think LB has recently done some rewiring.

Doornish - thank you for your helpful and supportive posts and you raise some very good points. As you say, I have to 'walk the tightrope' to be there for DD and the DGC, but without causing LB to 'kick off'. I am worried about the mould, but at least I was pleased to see that there were a couple of dehumidifiers in the DGDs bedroom, when I went. I also bought them a range cooker (which runs off wood, of which they have plenty so is very economical - assuming they now have their licence, which I believe they do, for chopping the wood). Hopefully, this is helping to dry the house out a bit. I had previously offered to pay for a surveyor's report, but such suggestions 'cross the line', as they are interpreted as suggesting that LB does not know what's best.

billy1966 - I don't know whether they will 'home school' or not. DD said that they were going to look at the local primary school, but I doubt that their baptism of the DGC into the RC faith is connected, as Doornish suggested. I very much hope that they do attend but my fear is that, as soon as they start to express any contrary opinions to those of LB, they will be withdrawn from the school and it will be rejected as unsuitable and disruptive. LB will believe that he and DD can do better (they are both qualified teachers, he is a STEM teacher and DD is a Classics teacher) but, in reality, he is likely to leave it all to DD, on top of everything else. Sometimes, recently, when I have spoken to her on FaceTime, she has looked absolutely exhausted.

I agree that LB's DP moving closer to his sister is significant. I suspect that she will have DC in the not too distant future and the DGP will become very involved with her family, to the detriment of LB and DD's DC. They will become ever more isolated from family and friends and from the world in general. LB and DD view London as a war zone, full of undesirable people, to the extent that they almost didn't come to DH's funeral, as it was held at a church in the City of London.

And yes, I still miss DH terribly, in all sorts of ways, but especially in being able to discuss things with him. He was not only 100% supportive, but also so wise, intelligent, pragmatic and practical, brimming with honesty and integrity, unfailingly courteous, kind and considerate, not a bad bone in his body, with a wonderful sense of humour. I am so sorry he missed that time with DGD1, when we didn't know of her existence, and that he never saw his DGS. By the time we went to see DGD1 and DGD2 for the first time - LB and DD had put off our visit for a while, changing dates etc, which is now what they are doing to his DP - DH had his terminal diagnosis, which changed the entire complexion of the visit.

When I visit LB and DD, I go back to the hotel alone, whereas if DH were with me, we would have had dinner together, talked and laughed about the day's events. We would have found joy, not only in seeing them, but also in being away together, enjoying another adventure. I will stop now, as I have rambled on for long enough, but also my tears are making it difficult to type.

I had thought of you often and think you’re a fantastic mother. Your girls are lucky to have you.

That list is horrifying.

Oh but your husband sounds like a truly marvellous man and how wonderfully you describe him.

I can just imagine that heavy pain in your chest at his loss.

I suppose another way to frame those 15 months of not seeing your grandchild was that at least you were spared 15 months of that additional upset on top of what you endured.

I am glad that that you have detached somewhat as that is wise for your own general health.

Acceptance is the goal in life as we age, I think, for that for which we cannot change.

Not easy but definitely a goal of mine as I approach 60.

I hope writing it down is some bit cathartic for you.

Keep in touch 💐

Just hugs and

I hope one day DD1 finds true love not this farce she thinks is.

they are both qualified teachers, he is a STEM teacher

I did not know this. I guess it sort of fits (STEM, and discipline). But Jesus, who would want him teaching kids?!
I'm so sorry for the loss of your DH. I love hearing about happy marriages, you write so beautifully about him.

Bloody hell. I had looked for your updates (name change regularly but have 'spoken' with you in the past OP. Good to hear you're managing to navigate the narcissistic waters with LB and are still in contact with your daughter and grandchildren.

Reading your list above of the 'rules' feels almost unbelievable to me. Although I know it happens and people end up in terribly controlling relationships - reading it all set out like that in a post is really upsetting and shocking.

If he has this much control I can't see how it's going to get any better tbh.

I'm a bit worried the reason DD looks so exhausted is that she's pregnant yet again. Equally her life sounds unbelievably exhausting as well.

I would be wary of thinking that if you abide by the many 'rules' you will be allowed to have a relationship with your DD, Chopin. You're only in favour again now because they've fallen out with his DP and that could change at any time, regardless of what you do and don't do. I think you know that, and hence your much improved ability to detach from the horror show, but please don't fall into the trap of thinking that if your access is removed again it's because you didn't follow his rules properly.

Whilst you're still permitted to go, these visits really serve the purpose of letting DD know there is still a lifeline to the outside, if she chooses to use it. But I can just imagine how it feels at the hotel in the evening without anyone to let off steam to, as well as talk over the bright points in the day. I wouldn't put yourself through it too frequently.

I'm amazed at how much money you're still giving them, bearing in mind how much they now have in the bank. A range cooker, a playhouse (that never happened) ... I would dial that back a bit as well.

Glad to read your posts Chopin. I too think about you and wonder how you are. Pleased to see you are maintaining your relationship with DD1. As you are aware you need to tread carefully but at least you are able to visit now and see your precious grandchildren.

It seems that you have managed to navigate, forge and maintain a positive connection with your DD and DGCs - for now - which is progress - despite the ever changing obstacle course LB throws in your way.

“For now” is important because this is all under his control - he’s the puppet master and knows what he’s doing - he’s asking you to jump and you are saying “How high?” - he still pulls the strings and holds all the power and control.

Don’t underestimate the exhaustion of YOU being in this abusive and coercively controlling relationship with him/them on your own MH.

You need to pace yourself and emotionally protect yourself.

It’s important that you keep a connection with your DD but not go in too deep emotionally because one day he will pull down the shutters just to be cruel and to deeply hurt you.

IMHO it’s not if - it’s when.

He’s mentally unstable - his condition is progressive and he will not get better without professional intervention which he will never seek.

He will become more and more demanding, intolerant and abusive of those around him. Including those little children.

His engagement in hate-fuelled ideologies and conspiracy theories alongside his alienating lifestyle choices etc will just continue to accelerate the spiralling decline of his MH.

I would also be careful of not making it too comfortable for your DD - with too many gifts, visits and contact because this will inadvertently just encourage her to stay.

She needs to see and feel the emotional bleakness of the relationship and the lifestyle and to want better for her and her DCs which is elsewhere and outside of this relationship.

So the tightrope is keeping the connection but not inadvertently enabling the relationship by ameliorating the bleakness - because that’s her only motivation to get her DCs away from this damaging man.

I would also be careful of not making it too comfortable for your DD - with too many gifts, visits and contact because this will inadvertently just encourage her to stay She needs to see and feel the emotional bleakness of the relationship and the lifestyle and to want better for her and her DCs which is elsewhere and outside of this relationship

this advice from @Doornish is very apt and was recurring across your threads. It’s worth considering as it does seem that she’s starting to process things herself although I fear it will be a long process.

Chopin, I am so glad that you are okish but saddened by your updates. For you. I was one of the posters throughout various name changes that felt and still feels that your DD is very much to blame herself. Her 'hardship' is completely of her own doing and her sense of entitlement, expecting friends and siblings she shat on to just forgive and forget is breathtaking. They quite rightly refuse to participate in the ridiculous list of demands and resist the emotional blackmail you are continuing to accept. Where will you draw the line in the sand? A baptism is an important family event! To exclude you is absolutely outrageous and your daughter is so very out of order to let that happen. I would personally withdraw a little from this while per per view set-up and focus more on your wonderful remaining DDs.