Where is ChopinandChampagne? LB update?

[gianfrancogorgonzola]

Really hope you see this C&C, I was following your other threads (name change a lot) and wanted to check in to see how you are.

🙏🏼

He is such a fucking dick. I am so sorry for using bad language but he really , really is.

Don’t reply. She needs to know how hurt you are. What a mess she’s making of her life.

I'm so sorry Chopin, the rules were a minefield designed to set you up, it was only a matter of time.
LB will of course be delighted, and it is all him (given DD1 was initially happy) but of course this still shows how deeply entrenched he is with her, and despite some positives with going out for the meal and trips over, that he is in control, and DD1 allows him to be.
Please give yourself some space and time, I imagine the games, emotional blackmail and control will try and start up ☹️ do not let them.

Hi Chopin, I think the ‘rules’ you were placed under, made a continuing long-term relationship with your daughter and GC almost impossible. The dictums controlling your behaviour whilst under threat of excommunication were ever present. Bribery almost? Emotions come to the fore, and to foster an on-going relationship with your daughter and your grandchildren, I wonder if you’d need to be almost dead inside, a puppet without feeling. A relationship is a two way thing, what you have isn’t that. Easy for me to say, I have a daughter, GC, the pain of losing them would be indescribable, I understand why you ‘played the game’, but with their rules how long can you reasonably be expected to play, to tip toe around them and their dictates, without continuing anguish.

I wish you well, truly.

Chopin throw your energy into your other daughters. I'm sure DD1 will make some kind of an overture in the future. So sorry for your distress, their cruelty is cartoonish at this point. Can you plan some other things that bring you joy when you think of them? Maybe an overnight stay at a spa with your other daughters or some friends? Attempting a really intricate baking recipe? You could challenge some friends to do the same and compare your successes (or funny failures, pinterest fail style!) You are such a kind and giving person, maybe you would enjoy working some children's charities? Hopefully you can feel the love and support from other posters and from the wonderful people in your real life as well.

You couldn’t have got it right. Honestly, it’s like an abused woman sitting there blaming herself because he is furious because she forgot on Saturday that the curtains get half opened and the oven heated to 185 for dinner, when Sundays it’s 190 degrees, Monday 160 and Tuesday 160, Wednesday dinner is cooked at 200 except last week when it was also 160 and how could you have forgotten Saturday is 185 now it’s December not 190?? I’m so sorry. Book something with your other dds and take some space. Another one who thinks you should cancel the cow if you can. At least that is speaking lbs language and he knows that when pushed too far he won’t get anything out of you.

Thanks so much for your supportive messages. Too upset to reply fully. This ia the message

' I dont know what to say Mum..

We dont agree on anything it seems.

I really thought things had been going well for us all. Now I just feel it's all been fake for the past year and you havent been genuine.

You tell me how intolerant I am while simultaneously having no tolerance for my Christian beliefs.

You are upset about being 'excluded' from a baptism when the faith clearly holds no importance to you. It is more than just a 'spirituality thing' for us.

If you loved me why wouldnt you want me to have been as happy as possible on my own wedding day? How could that ever have been the case when you rejected the person I was marrying?

I already suspected how you felt about all you have said but thank you for confirming it. Although there are things you have said in regards to my relationship with Dad which I was unaware of. It is surely a good thing it's been admitted and you have been honest.

Maybe we are just trying to make something work here that just isnt?

I would rather you didnt send me any money for the cow. And dont bother getting anything for (LB) for christmas either. You clearly have a very unsavoury image about us when it comes to money and possessions. It's up to you whether you still want to get the presents for the children. I had originally thought how nice it would be for you to be seeing them so close to christmas and to be able to give your gifts in person. Maybe dont bother if you will no longer be coming. There were also gifts I was going to give to you. Frustratingly there are things i have ordered as you know which i was relying on you bringing and I will be unable to return them. If you no longer wish to come then I am not sure how I will get them as i think it will be too risky to send it in the post. Perhaps will need to be sent to (LB) family and the children will have to receive some presents at a later date. You say you never learn your lesson but clearly I dont either.. stupid me for forgetting your unpredictable nature
[16:33, 08/12/2022] I think actually it's very cruel of you to have said the things you have said about my relationship with Dad given that I will never be able to talk to him about anything that's be raised'

I am heartbroken. I did get very upset and now she has become defensive and will tell LB who will say don't bother with me. I haven't replied and I don't have any idea what to say without inflaming the situation.

The cow isn't paid for. In an earlier message, before we fell out, she said to transfer the money to LB's account as she has now closed hers. There are also the gifts which I just ordered and lots of items have been arriving in the post which she was expecting me to take over (in sealed bags so I don't know what they are).

The argument was so horrible, I can't even begin to unpick it, but was basically me being very upset. I am so annoyed with myself. I wanted to end the call earlier and said not wanting to hang up but upset, but she wanted to keep talking. I feel such a failure.

You know that this is textbook abuse. He was waiting for you to trip up - you duly did. And now your kind and thoughtful gift has been turned into you as the Great Christian Hater (aren't you also a Christian?). It's all just absolute nonsense and would be hilarious if it weren't so tragic.

So you won't be able to act as her mule across the Irish Sea. Boo hoo. So she has (allegedly) got stuff for you. Boo hoo.

Her language is very similar to the last time you had the utter temerity to buy some lovely gifts - you don't understand her, you never have, blah blah blah.

All you can do is step way, way back. Be kind to yourself. You have done nothing wrong. She has made her choices and she will have to live with them.

There is so much there to unpick but I would've bet my house on LB family being 'brought back into the fold' and used as leverage, and they've done it already 🙄😡

Sending hugs. Followed your threads with great sympathy and respect for you. Please don’t doubt or criticise yourself now.
Its been as though they had blindfolded you and then been leading you through a minefield, with you hoping that your love for your daughter could get you to the other side. Love sadly doesn’t always triumph.
Please look after yourself - cherish the love of your other two daughters and the support of all those reading your threads.

She remains LBs mouthpiece and I would concur that she wrote similarly the last time you had the temerity in his eyes to buy gifts. That is he speaking for her, his control
of her is absolute.

It was a truly sad day(understatement) when he came into her and this your lives. She was targeted by him and deliberately so. She may never get away from his absolute control of her. She is his muse and he remains the Svengali.

Hi CC, I was on some of your previous threads a couple of usernames ago. Really sorry but not surprised to hear of this latest development.

It seems to be a pattern where she starts to get closer to you, LB interferes, and she parrots his viewpoints and complaints back at you. Worse, it comes across that she buys into them, which is probably part of her denial and appeasement strategy when it comes to him - she acquiesces to him and appeases him as part of her denial about what he truly is and what he has done to her.

Saying that, she does also come across as always as immature and entitled, you would not think she was a grown mother of three but a late teen. She has possibly always been a bit that way, but her relationship with him has brought it out of her in the extreme and I am afraid to say it seems embedded now. This is who she is now.

Tbh, at this stage I think you are enabling and feeding the beast by also engaging in appeasing behaviour, the kowtowing was never going to be enough and demeaned you as well as your daughter.

She has made her choices and although I feel for her she is actively participating in LBs abuse to you. I know that’s hard to accept but the message she has sent you is disgraceful, manipulative and cruel. And at some point you may have to come to terms with the fact she has been as cruel to you as he has. If not more because you’re her mother. Sorry to say it, but she is not stupid, she knows how cruel it is to exclude you from the ceremony and then DARVO you.

Maybe this isn’t what you want to hear but she isn’t just the victim alone in this, she’s made you one too and I think uses you as a whipping woman (when she is not using you as a cash machine) to deflect the shit she gets from him. She also plays power games with you like he does and seems to get a kick out of it. This os who she has become and who she chooses to be.

You’ve done all you can in impossible circumstances. Maybe now it’s time to let her go for a while and stop contact yourself.

This is horrific & so manipulative & unkind. Perhaps you should just agree with her that you need a break from each other, tell her that you will return any items that arrive. Who excludes a loving grandparent from a christening, but invites a neighbour? I know this is heartbreaking but I think to protect yourself from being hurt again you need to step back. Sending hugs x

I am so very sorry to read this Chopin. You have tried so hard but it would never, and will never be enough as long as your dd stays with this horrible man. They both treat you appallingly actually. They really do take any love you give and trample it into the dust. They seem to enjoy hurting you while taking every opportunity to appear virtuous and the wronged party. They are fully adult, well off people in their thirties, they aren’t kids.
Sometimes the kindest thing we can do for our children is not to pander to them but to be honest and the leave them to it.
Look after yourself Chopin, spend time with people who care about your feelings, you have been through such a traumatic time.

It’s also a bit alarming they’ve had packages sent to you that they wanted you to bring not you don’t know what they contain. What if it’s something that you shouldn’t be bringing across the border? If it was me i’d never agree to taking any package like that without explicitly knowing what was in it.

I really feel for you.
So awful.

I do think that you are just so close to it and so emotionally involved and invested, that it is hard to see what we can read so clearly.

Really manipulative, victim assuming, nasty, insulting language, designed to really wound.
It's a theme with them both, repeated.

The accusation that you don't respect their Christian beliefs that they picked up 5 minutes ago, would be funny if it wasn't so utterly ridiculous.

I absolutely believe that her intention is to manipulate and wound you whilst taking no responsibility whatsoever on the grief she inflicted on her father.

Her nastiness is really toxic to read.

Her preoccupation with transportation of items shouldn't concern you.
Just more noise.

You have absolutely no business going over there.

I can only imagine the upset you are feeling but I really think you will never have any peace in your life whilst you are involved with them.

I don't think it is an accident at all that his parents have moved away to be near their protective daughter.

Acceptance of the situation and that they deserve some peace at this stage of their lives is likely a huge motivation for them.
I would imagine they have had similar vitriol thrown at them.

I would hate to think that this upset will be your life from now on.

You deserve so much better and I absolutely believe your husband would want you protected from all this ugliness.

We are all rooting for you.

I hope this doesn't seem rude but so much of this all (and previous threads) seems to be about 'gifts'.
Now obviously they are a proxy, a way for you both to project emotions on to (them far more than you! ) but looking at your posts, gifts feature as a source of upset a lot.

Under the surface, of course there is much more going on - it's not really about gifts at all - and you've explained why some gifts you want to give are important (heating!). But coming from a family where gifts hardly play any part whatsoever, it does jump out at me.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you chose inappropriate gifts or anything. As others have said, he's made impossible rules for you.
Do you think perhaps DD might agree if you suggest leaving gifts out of your relationship in future? (I can already see how LB would spin that one, though...) could you say you won't send them anything impromptu but they are free to ask for anything? I don't know. I find a lot of conventions around "gifts" confusing myself so perhaps that's why I see it as a source of misunderstanding and unintended offence.

If I remember correctly @ChopinanChampagne , you have had a therapist before. May I suggest you find one who is an expert in narcissistic abuse. It is amazing how clearly you can see it when working with a professional who is good at what they do, and it would help take away any misguided feelings of guilt you may have.

This man sees you as competition in a bizarre "game" which he will not, can not, allow you to "win". He doesn't see you as a human being with feelings. Your kindness is a threat to him. Unfortunately your daughter has been brainwashed and is behaving in a similar way towards you. You cannot change their behaviour, all you can do is look after yourself. Some distance and professional help should assist you in coming to terms with the situation. It is heartbreaking that you can't have a relationship with your grandchildren without being a puppet dancing on LB and your daughter's string, but that is how it is at the moment unfortunately.

Could I suggest you give yourself some space for the moment, perhaps you could reply to your daughter that you love her and you are very sad at how things have gone, but you need to take some time to yourself and will be in touch in the new year, or whenever you think might work for you. Then block her number temporarily, check from time to time if you wish, or wait until the date you decide. You have lost so much in the recent years and you deserve to be able to live without all this unnecessary angst. Deep sympathies for all you are going through.

@ChopinandChampagne Please try not to blame yourself. You were clearly very anxious and drained at the thought of the trip, as you said earlier in the thread. And there's only so much anyone can take before they snap.

I hope she splits up with him ASAP or at least finds more freedom so she can spend time with you without the drama. xx

So sorry Chopin.

I'm afraid she comes across as rather selfish and heartless in her message to you. I'm putting it mildly.

I was on your threads a couple of usernames too and I am so desperately sad for you now.

I have to say though, the reason I didn't comment earlier in this thread was because I was sad! You were 'in' with them because you were a robot (as a pp said) and paying for extremely extravagant gifts (that were specifically asked for of course, not ones you had chosen). I have experience with someone like this in my life and it seemed so demeaning and soul-destroying for you.

As a note, I am a Catholic and would have loved the crosses from Egypt. However, you know it's not really about the crosses or 'not respecting the faith'. They accept you when you deny all your own feelings and give them cash. It is then against everyone else.

Unlike other pp who want to remove all responsibility from your DD, I think you really need to come to terms with the fact that she is responsible for her behaviour and she treats you awfully. She isn't a 'safe' person to be around and the message she sent to you is awful! I understand you also said some things but you aren't a robot and it was bound to come to a head with you repressing everything about yourself to be able to have a relationship. It's not a real relationship if you have to behave like that. Stop looking for excuses/reasons her behaviour isn't that bad. It is! I understand she is a victim of coercive control and how awful that must be but ultimately she is still treating you like this, she is an adult not a fourteen year old.

The comment about her wedding is so ridiculous to an outsider - yes her wedding day is about her, but it's also entirely reasonable to expect PARENTS to be upset if they aren't told, let alone invited. Honestly with some distance from the situation it is so clear she is just being cruel and unreasonable. Even if you take only her own words of the text. You are not allowed your own feelings about her actions or any understanding of your own emotions.

The only way to 'win' with LB and DD (as she is playing the game too) is to completely disengage. Whether you immediately stop replying, or send her another message saying you wish her well and are there if she needs you, you need to step back.

Wishing you all the love and care in the world. I'm glad you had such a good time in Egypt, don't let this taint it for you.

This was inevitable. You were following the rules so he/they introduced new rules.

when you’ve calmed down a bit and if you ever feel ready you can go back to the vanilla I love you and am here if you need me messages of a couple of years ago, but in the meantime I hope you have a lovely Christmas with your other 2 dds.

I was thinking this too

Also with previous messages where it has felt it could have been written directly by lb, this doesn’t it seems more personal in the attacks, if that makes sense. Although she has hit the nail on the head with you not approving of her choice of DH (neither does all of mn).

I think you really need to come to terms with the fact that she is responsible for her behaviour and she treats you awfully

I came on to post this too; having read your recent updates, including the texts from DD1, I found myself thinking that as abhorrent as LB undoubtedly is, DD1 treats you appallingly, and must at this point own her behaviour.

I think the transactional nature of her relationship with you - all the gifts, the specific roles, in return for some paltry contact! - is nearly more of her doing than LB.

Even before your update I was wondering was it time, for your own physical & mental well-being, to do less - it is so draining for you to have to put so much time & effort into every action you take, just to be tolerated by that pair.

It's very painful but maybe it's time to focus on the other good relationships you have in your life, including DD2 & 3?

You are such a beautiful writer & sound like an amazing person. 💐

So sorry to hear this @ChopinandChampagne . Unfortunately the ‘rules’ are so stacked against you, and so unreasonable it was always predictable that you wouldn’t be able to fully comply with all their restrictions.
As heartbreaking as it must be for you I think the only thing you can do now is leave them to their rural life and they can abide by their self imposed rules and you get on with your life and other DD’s.
Another thing….there’s always a catch to dealing with them, you seem to have to do something for them, cows, investments, provisions from Amazon, it’s far from unconditional which is what a natural relationship should be. Sorry again for you.