So fed up and think I give up on men

[Missillusioned78]

I am 44. I would really like a fulfilling equal relationship.

The only man I have met who interests me treats me as someone to ring on the way home when pissed.

I have a full life of work, friends, hobbies and my wonderful children. I am not rich but getting by with my home. We are happy.

I am SO disappointed with men. Don’t know whether to just give up

*cannot be trusted

Men find early twenties women to be peak attractiveness.

Yes but what either men or women find peak physically attractive is not the only thing that dictates who they form relationships with (or equally who they get the opportunity to form a relationship with).

There are many many other considerations and factors.

Those dictate who people firm relationships with.

Your views are simple minded.

Fwiw I find young men peak physical attractiveness.

But I wouldn't be looking for one for a relationship or even a fuck ..... And believe me, I could get plenty for the latter and probably a few for the former.

Yes!! So true.

To add to what others have said They also get extremely upset by empowered women who don’t but into their distorted narratives

@Twistiewistie

sure you do mate🙄. Yet strangely …still….no….actual…..statistics…

You seem to have misunderstood the premise. What I have just stated does not need statistics to support it since it follows from the very definition of the normal distribution. Use u = 0 and u = 0.2 and calculate the ratio of the populations that are 3 standard deviations from the mean. You'll find its 85%. Its a feature of the model that a small difference in mean ends up producing large differences at the tails. This is pretty basic A Level statistics.

Here is a normal distribution calculator for you, not that I think you have a clue how to use it;

www.hackmath.net/en/calculator/normal-distribution

yet by your own admission womens accomplishments don’t mean much to men … and tell women they have to accept ‘fixer uppers ‘
wth… but if that ain’t mysogyny I don’t know what is

What most women think are 'fixer uppers' and what are actually 'fixer uppers' are wildy different. Lets say, as a woman looking to settle down, we want a guy in their thirties, that earns £50k+ per year, is over 6ft tall and has no kids. Sound reasonable? Boringly achievable even?

Well, £50k is the 84th percentile for ALL income earners in the UK. Only 16% earn more than this. Since men earn more as they age, for someone in their thirties its likely to be considerably less than 16%, but we will use this. Source: HM Revenue & Customs; www.gov.uk/government/statistics/percentile-points-from-1-to-99-for-total-income-before-and-after-tax

6ft, or 183cm, is approximately the 80th percentile. I found a US census that suggests its 15%, but bizarrely very little data for adults as its mainly all related to measuring children. I'll use 20%. Source: RCPCH; www.rcpch.ac.uk/resources/uk-who-growth-charts-2-18-years

No kids? Well, couldn't find a UK data source, but US census says that 24% of men between 40 and 50 are childless and 40% overall. I'd assume the number for our hypothetical is somewhere in between there at 30%. Source: US Census; www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2019/demo/P70-162.pdf

So 0.16 x 0.2 x 0.3 = 0.0096.

Our most basic assumptions (decent salary, tall and no kids) has led us to aim for a top 1% man. I was very generous with those numbers as well. And we haven't even begun to consider personality traits, interests, education, political views and geographical variations. Sure, there is some inter dependence, but not enough to make a meaningful difference to the contention being made.

Its not misogynistic (or misandrist) to criticise a particular sex. Its misogynistic (or misandrist) to hate or show contempt for an entire sex. You don't seem to appreciate this distinction. Throwing out the word misogynist at every slight criticism of women doesn't do your argument any favours.

@TheForests

What is a red piller please?

The red pill is a description of how men and women select mates based on evolutionary history. Historically, men have selected women for their indicators of fertility (usually, youth and beauty). Women select men that can protect and provide safety for the raising of a child.

Everything else you were told by @LemonDrop22 was a bit fanciful. I don't think many red pillers are also suggesting that women lose the right to vote, but many strong feminists would love for you to believe this to be the case. Fifty years ago, male graduates outnumbered women 60/40 so we embarked upon a programme to encourage more women in to our higher education institutes. Nowadays, women outnumber men 60/40 but starting a programme to encourage more men in to higher education would be 'misogynist.'

There are many good books on the subject, often written by women (god forbid a man ever tried to voice these opinions). Louise Perry; 'The Case Against The Sexual Revolution' makes much the same points I have raised - that the current dating market isn't really working for either sex for much of these reasons.

Its not misogynistic (or misandrist) to criticise a particular sex. Its misogynistic (or misandrist) to hate or show contempt for an entire sex.

Rubbish. Utter rubbish. This is like saying that you’re only racist if you are in the KKK.

I asked my H about this (58, decent looking, not fat, interesting job)

He said that if he was single whilst he might go on the odd casual date with a 30 something with or without kids he wouldnt be interested in anyone long term relationship wise under 45 -as he doesn't want a baby at any point and wouldn't take that risk

Please look up the definition of Misogyny and get back to me.

The last sentence is a silly straw man argument. Always aimed at associating the view you don't agree with with some form of vile social group. The type of discussion where you just liken opposing views to misogyny, racism, Nazism or whatever else is an absolute cancer of our current societal discourse.

While we got you hubby, ask him would he also date someone 13 years older than him?
Now this is interesting….

I’m 50 something, not fat, interesting-ish job, 6ft tall & agree with your H, I generally would want to meet at least 45 + as would want that kinda shared age experiences.

Oh, another one!
Now I ask you, Kenny, would you date a woman who’s 13 years older than you?

No 🤣 what I meant was that misogyny doesn’t have to be overt. Just like racism. Pretty sure you already knew that though.

I think there is also this much perpetuated myth that men age better than women too. In most cases this isn’t true, either. Most men start losing a considerable amount of hair in their 30s.

@Sonervousimgonnathrowup , depends on the women in question really.

im 52 so that would make her 65 - so maybe.if she was a good fit for me,

But generally I tend to look 5 to 7 years either side of my age, so kinds 45 ish to about 58 ish feels about right

Thanks for answering kenny!

Oh wow , once again didn’t read the novella but perhaps if you wrote more succinctly people might actually engage .. although personally after this I’m going to choose to disengage as you are clearly supporting the red pill community and minimising it’s digusting attitude to women

you imply it’s just simply ‘The red pill is a description of how men and women select mates based on evolutionary history.’

obcioysly you havnt educated yourself to learn that old school evolutionary biology argument had been totally discredited

try To remember you are talking with mothers , sometimes grandmothers who have seen generations of relationships and know that in REALITY how people choose partners has nothing to do with the rubbish red pill talk . Sure you get a small percentage of shallow people who choose that way but the majority of people are much deeper and more complex

im sorry you see life that way . I’m sorry you think that now less males are in colleges are promoting female attendance that men have the raw end of the stick yet fail to see that despite those women being in college they are almost certain to give up income , career opportunities when babies are born whilst the men move forward because men are still not doing their fair share of child care . That women still do the vast majority of unpaid labour in homes and the community , that violence against women and girls are massive problems

perhaps educate yourself and get some balance in your thinking . I can promise you there’s plenty of good books , university research , studies etc on those issues

Not sure this is entirely true, we men certainly lose our hair sooner, but we also have thicker skin and age more evenly then women who can suddenly look older as collagen lost in the ageing process

men and women simply age differently

www.verywellhealth.com/is-aging-different-for-men-and-women-2224332#toc-appearance

No worries, was this the answer you expected ?

It's not true. Only men believe it, and it's that society allows them to age. Some people don't understand this crucial difference though.

@SittingCat - you said “A mid to late forties man, somewhat economically successful, intelligent (graduate at least shall we say), somewhat physically fit and well presented - sound about right? Such a person could fairly easily be attracting late twenties / early thirties women without kids.''

I’m a woman in my late 40s, very intelligent, successful, physically fit and attractive. No kids. I don’t attract men in their 20s or early 30s. Wonder why??

many men are grossly uninteresting underneath it all
so yeah don’t give up any hobbies like a previous poster alluded to
your hobbies are much more fulfilling

You asked for statistics. You got them. And now you're ignoring them.

Like many people on your side of this argument, you are not interested in actual debate based on reason and facts. You're interested in anecdotes and creating an echo chamber.

I wonder if Twistie has a view on the family court system and difficulties Dad's have in gaining child access.

No doubt in her mind that's not important as it doesn't have an adverse impact on women.

@SittingCat

i wasn’t going to reply but that’s actually laughable
i asked for statistics showing ‘women are as bad as men ‘
And that women only date the top 15% of men
neither of which you supplied

I didn’t even respond to the first portion of your message that was ranting about means and Statisrics … your atguement that only the top 15% of men are dated is beyond ridiculous and means 85% of men don’t get dates
Sorry to tell you but I’ve never in my life dated a man in the ‘top ‘ percentage nor has any woman I know . I look around and every man I see is FAR from a top percenter, , and guess what ? a huge number of them are under 6foot

your silly red pill theory really falls apart in a little thing called reality
but like many red pillers you just want to live in some ridiculous narratives that men are hard down by in a world where they are privelidged

All the best