DSS (10) went to thump DS (4 and disabled)

[TemporaryChange1]

My DS can be incredibly challenging and you would never hear me pretend otherwise but what happened this evening has really upset me. DS is severely autistic, has LD's and suspected ADHD. His level of understanding is more comparable to a very young toddler.

DSC are round today. I left all of them with OH (father to all of them) whilst I nipped to the shop. DS began having a meltdown when I got home as he struggles with transitions and gets upset when people come in and out as he automatically wants to go outside himself.

As I come in DS begins crying and throwing himself on the floor. He threw one of his car toys which landed near DSD but not at her. It landed about a metre away from where she was sitting. DSS (10) jumped up, grabbed DS by the jumper and raised his fist ready to thump him in the face.

OH shouted for him to stop right there and don't you dare punch him, so he didn't, but he certainly intended to.

When DSS (10) went back to sit down DS (4) then threw another toy which landed near him this time. OH made DS apologise for throwing the toy. No apology forthcoming from DSS for going to thump DS.

Admittedly, DS is my weakness. I'm incredibly protective of him as he's just so vulnerable so I want to know whether you think I'm being unreasonable so be absolutely furious about this.

I got DS shoes on and took him out the house to the greenery down the road where we're now sitting.

Because you'd have said if he was injured.

But not injured does not equal "fine".

Some very purposefully obtuse posters on this thread.

I was intervening. I was trying to get him up off the floor whilst he thrashed about screaming.

You are nit picking at miniscule details to make me look bad. It doesn't matter if he threw one toy or ten. 10 year old should not attack 4 year old disabled siblings.

But a 10yo likely won't see it as a power-imbalance in the same way an adult would. The 10yo saw their 4yo sibling getting away with chucking metal toy cars at them, got pissed off and reacted in the heat of the moment.

In my opinion, they should. They will have seen the 4 year old since they were a baby and regardless of that, should be aware that children that young are not their equals and they need to be careful around them. I don't think a 10 year old should be unaware of that.

Judging by these responses I think this is the wrong place for this thread, most of these people clearly have no clue about autism, factor in learning disabilities and the fact that he is 4, he doesn't know what he is doing.

My 9 yr old son is autistic and can take things out on his brother who is 6 (and understands why his brother behaves the way he does sometimes btw, so a 10 yr old with no addictions needs should be able to)

They have arguments and fights which go two ways because they both fully understand what they are doing! A 10 yr old nearly punching a 4 yr old with additional needs is not just another sibling argument!

The only thing I can think of is maybe having plastic toys instead of metal? But that all depends on if he would still play with them. You sound like you usually have it sorted when dealing with transitions (which a lot of autistic children struggle with for people who have no clue) I think sometimes it just can't be helped.

I hope your husband comes around, it wasn't your fault!

Tell me about it.

DS was far from fine. His meltdown ramped up twofold after being manhandled and threatened by his brother.

I could talk about how DS spent the rest of the evening upset, banging his head on the floor, screaming at anybody who went to touch him, but they're not interested in that they just want to talk about poor DSS who had nothing done to him at all.

Honestly some of these replies knock me sick. If I ever heard any of my friends speaking like that then they wouldn't be friends for long. IRL we recognise that upper primary children shouldn't go around bullying reception age children least of all going to punch them in the head.

Thank you ❤️

You really need to look at your relationship. Does your DH agree with your son's diagnosis's, is he fully on board, can he manage him etc.?

Is this just him having double standards for his kids because of guilt and what not, or are your son's needs also a significant issue ?

It sounds to me like you and your DH are doing your best.

Something is definitely going on with the 10yr old (The older sister seems quite passive).

I suspect that if its not gotten to the bottom of the situation will resolve itself when he stops coming over.

Your update broke my heart too I hope he is ok (and you)

He fully agrees with his diagnosis but he does struggle to manage him when he's particularly challenging. That being said so do I. I think most SN parents are just winging it the first few years aren't they?

I definitely think there is some NRP guilt at play.

Like I see my DS as vulnerable (because of disability and care needs) OH appears to feel the same about DSS. Not because of disability or care needs but because he thinks he'll be a target for bullying due to being quite sensitive and as he puts it "geeky". I don't know where he gets that from as DSS isn't being bullied. I think there's some projection from his own childhood perhaps.

I think you sound like a lovely mum op.

I hope you get some time to yourself.

Dear OP
I think you have made up your mind on this, and there’s not much point in discussing it any further ( though of course if you and anyone else wants to, that’s nothing to do with me) . You are living in very difficult circumstances, so difficult that your response is to adopt the position of protecting and advocating for your own child totally and completely.

I would be interested in your relationship with your child’s half brother and sister before you had a child of your own. You said that not living full time with his father is all he has ever known, as he is ten and his father left when he was two. I think that is old enough to have experience separation anxiety, which perhaps he does at least subconsciously retain? His sister ( who seems to be pretty much ignored in all this, except as the original target) is older, so she would certainly remember the change in their Domestic circumstances.

How long have they been visiting their father in the home you share? I guess it must be longer than five years, if your son is now four. So the brother has experienced more disruption in his short life, as his half brother is not the typical small brother he might have expected.

I understand that you haven’t got any compassion to spare, but you and the children’s father are going to have to work out some modus vivendi which allows him to have some on going parental relationship with his older children. At the moment, it seems that the current arrangement is causing the sort of stress which could split your families again. That would be very unfortunate for everyone involved.

would it be possible for you to discuss your situation with someone who is more experienced in these sorts of problems? I expect that another parent , maybe on the NT board might be able to help you access calm,,professional help.

I wish you all the best.

Thank you I really appreciate it.

DS is absolutely fine now, back to his usual self. I'm also OK, albeit a bit sick of the atmosphere in the house. OH barely spoke a word yesterday unless asked direct questions etc. Whenever there's a disagreement the atmosphere drags on for days 🙄

@TemporaryChange1 fair enough. I would suggest you show your DH some of the research/studies on the outcomes for disabled/autistic children. It makes for dire ,depressing reading (and of course it's not a given outcome) but it might help him to see where you come from. He has two children to protect, he can't drop one just because your son has you fighting for him.
It's a shitty situation all round, but he needs to be realistic and more importantly fair and a father to all three children.

Thank you for your thoughts.

DSS has been coming here for around 5.5 years.

It is possible he has some separation anxiety of course. Contrary to how I may come across on the thread I've always tried hard to make him feel like a big part of the new, second family. He gets a fair amount of 1-1 time with his dad, aswell as the time we all spend together.

I do have compassion to spare, if my responses are prickly and seem short sighted it's because I felt like it was a pile on to begin with, with my DS being overlooked, which made me dig my heels in deeper and reinforced my need to advocate for him.

Off the thread I have suggested couples counselling, perhaps family counselling would also be helpful (if such a thing exists?)

Thank you I'll definitely do that

Some of these replies are insane. Seems to be typical MN step parent bias where the step kid can never be in the wrong. Obviously the blame lies with the ten year olds aggressive behaviour, not the 4 year old disabled kid FFS,

OP - really hope your son is ok. And yes of course you are protective over him. To be honest at the moment it sounds like you need to be.

She is pointing out his developmental stage
And he is in school - a SEN one.

He is not the same as an average 4 year-old (who should still never be punched by a 10 year-old)

This is spot on. I have Autistic DC, it can be incredibly hard as a parent, even more so for the other children. My DC trigger each other. From what you've said it sounds like your DSS is triggered by confrontation and loud voices, so a meltdown sounds like it could be a trigger for him too. He's gone through a lot, parents arguing and fighting, then seperating, new partners, new homes, disabled little brother who has what from a child's viewpoint could be really scary meltdowns, now his mum is pregnant, he's probably imaging another young sibling will be the same, so two sometimes scary loud households.

What you really need, rather than an argument about DSS being aggressive, is a way to stop this happening again. When my Autistic DS started seeing a psychologist to work on emotional regulation I asked about the meltdowns, about impulsivity, DS would physically hit out, smash himself or someone else. They said if the behaviour was purely impulse it isn't always possible for Autistic DC to learn to control that. At this age you can achieve more with your DS by observation, working out triggers and then minimisation of those triggers. One example, my DS can cope with the supermarket if he was in a pram with a tablet, the noise, lights, busyness all impact him a lot. But if he goes to the shops in the morning that's it for the day. Since he was little the best way for him to recover has been playing his favourite games on his tablet. He struggled with transitions too, can only wear one specific material, can't stand labels, gets really distress if anyone breaks rules. My DD's yelling is a trigger for my DS and vice versa.

None of this is easy on anyone involved. There validity of your DS needs and his vulnerability don't decrease his siblings needs or make their ability to cope with his behaviour increase. Meltdowns can be really scary for other children to witness. I'd be angry too if H went on about DS being aggressive or said he tried to assault his sibling, both terms you've used a lot on here. Just because your DS has high needs doesn't cancel out his siblings needs. You need a way to stop this happening again. You need to talk to your OH without saying DSS was aggressive or nearly assaulted his brother. Maybe start with DSS is obviously finding things tough right now, how can we make sure things don't get too much for him again? And how can we help DS to feel less overwhelmed? Your best bet at this age to reducing the meltdowns is working out his triggers, working out the cues that's he struggling and providing him with what he needs to balance out the impact everyday life has on him. Not easy I know and they'll still be meltdowns, but if you can find some little changes on both sides you can support DS and DSS both not to feel so overwhelmed.

Family counseling does exist. Though I'd want someone who's knowledgeable about Autism conducting it. We haven't done family counselling, but my DS psychologist happy to do sessions to work on sibling dynamics, but he's a little older, at 4 that probably wouldn't be useful. There are services where we live, sort of support groups, young carer's for children with Autistic siblings. The dynamic between siblings often become more complex where there's SEN and they often have greater expectations put on them then children whose siblings have no SEN or disabilities. I think accessing support for DSS and DSD could be a positive for all of you.

And maybe they should have emptied their hands when they saw their child tossing toy cars around the room. Or implement a strategy that involves parents not having full hands when one of their children is throwing toys at the other children.

@Kanaloa he threw one toy (that wasn't aimed at anyone and didn't hurt anyone), then he was grabbed by his brother, then he threw another one. Then he was made to apologise and removed from the situation. The incident was bad enough from all points of view, no need to make up things .

Yeah, bored of this now.

I'll just agree with you so you can leave the thread satisfied that you are right.

Nobody emptied their hands, we both just stood there watching the chaos, Nobody intervened, Nobody picked DS up off the floor, we left the cars strewn about the floor for the rest of the day. I'm a shit parent. Yada yada yada

Regardless it’s clearly part of his meltdown to throw things - it’s normalised and brushed off by op and the 10 year old is expected to tolerate it/not react. When you have a disabled child (with needs so complex you call them a ‘tiny infant’ at age 4) you really can’t have your hands full and be doing xyz. You need to have a parent supervising and supporting them when they’re with other kids. It’s one of the hardest things about having a child with additional needs - you can’t leave them because these situations might arise. OP wants to villanise the 10 year old as being a bully/violent/criminal when in fact she and her husband should be looking at DH themselves and what they need to do to support ALL the children and avoid these situations. Not just push it all onto one child as a bully/mean/dying to attack a ‘tiny infant’ for no reason.

I don’t think you’re a shit parent op. I think you’re falling into the trap many of us mums/dads with children with sen fall into of ramping things up and being ultra protective/expecting others to adjust because we know how vulnerable our child is. I would have probably done similar. But now my son is older (closer to your dss age) I see him still as a little boy. One day he could easily do something like this, because he’s still a child himself and struggles to cope with challenging situations. As a parent I wouldn’t then see him as a criminal, violent, nasty or a bully, I’d see him as needing extra support because he obviously couldn’t cope in that situation. That’s what your DSS needs - not shouted at and made out as a criminal/bully.