DSS (10) went to thump DS (4 and disabled)

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My DS can be incredibly challenging and you would never hear me pretend otherwise but what happened this evening has really upset me. DS is severely autistic, has LD's and suspected ADHD. His level of understanding is more comparable to a very young toddler.

DSC are round today. I left all of them with OH (father to all of them) whilst I nipped to the shop. DS began having a meltdown when I got home as he struggles with transitions and gets upset when people come in and out as he automatically wants to go outside himself.

As I come in DS begins crying and throwing himself on the floor. He threw one of his car toys which landed near DSD but not at her. It landed about a metre away from where she was sitting. DSS (10) jumped up, grabbed DS by the jumper and raised his fist ready to thump him in the face.

OH shouted for him to stop right there and don't you dare punch him, so he didn't, but he certainly intended to.

When DSS (10) went back to sit down DS (4) then threw another toy which landed near him this time. OH made DS apologise for throwing the toy. No apology forthcoming from DSS for going to thump DS.

Admittedly, DS is my weakness. I'm incredibly protective of him as he's just so vulnerable so I want to know whether you think I'm being unreasonable so be absolutely furious about this.

I got DS shoes on and took him out the house to the greenery down the road where we're now sitting.

Thank you for validating how I feel, it felt a bit like it was going in the direction of being an echo chamber for a second so I'm pleased that some of you see my POV.

I'm sure that if I left out the part about DSS being step, and instead said they were full siblings, fewer people would jump to the defence of a 10 year old going to assault a disabled 4 year old.

OH knows what he did is wrong. He was livid himself and was on it straight away telling DSS that his behaviour is unacceptable and he was never to do anything like that again. It appears that only he can be upset about it though. If I speak to OH In defence of DS and say that what I saw concerned me he goes ballistic.

I think you need to have a little bit f patience for your dss. It may be that he never sees your ds having to take any responsibility for his behaviour- perhaps for good reason- but he he overreacts a bit and it's all about his behaviour? He's only 10, may be give him a break. He thought about it but didn't actually do it

The only reason he didn't thump him was because OH saw what was happening and shouted at him to stop as he pulled his fist back. He was more than prepared to punch him.

I'm sorry your daughter got hurt, I don't condone my DS throwing things. I abhor it and it doesn't go unaddressed. We are continually working on it as are his SEN school.

However no parent can preempt and prevent every instance of throwing, nobody is infallible and there will be times like today when I'm not quick enough or I'm preoccupied cooking, like OH was.

When times like that occur I shouldn't have to worry about him being assaulted by his brother who is more than double his age and height.

I think you need to only give DS very soft toys to play with when the other kids are there.

Are you aware of the drama triangle OP?

There are three parts of a drama triangle.

The victim.
The protector/rescuer.
And anyone else... who is always the aggressor/persecutor.

You've referred to DS as 'vulnerable' several times... and, of course, due to his disability (plus his age, and your role ad his parent), you are the protector.

That means the anyone else who gets involved in the triangle, if there is any discomfort, will be the aggressor.

Just be careful that by protecting your son you don't put wedges between the two of you and everyone else.

Should DSS have postured towards punching DS? Of course not. That needs handling separately, why is he resorting to violence as a response to ANYONE?

I'm not familiar with that no but I'll look into it.

I don't want to drive a wedge between me/DS and anybody else in the family, that's the last thing I want.

I think OH might manage to do that on his own though unfortunately. He has no problem with me being upset with things DS does when he's angry, he'll happily sit and listen to me vent (away from little ears of course) and agree with everything I'm saying.

I'm not allowed to take issue with anything his children do though.

Unfortunately when you have a child with significant needs you need to supervise and step in constantly. My son (also autistic) was very like this at this age. If he was throwing toys he would have been immediately removed from the area and supervised by one of us (me and his dad) not left to continue to chuck toys at his siblings. As adults we can rationalise and understand/accept it. For children it’s unfair to expect them to just be understanding while they have toys thrown at them, no matter how protective you are over your little boy. Think of it the opposite way - when your little boy is 10 he will still seem like a little boy to you, and you won’t want people throwing toy cars at him in a tantrum.

Of course it’s also unacceptable for your son to be hurt by DSS, but the answer here is parental supervision and intervention, not letting DS throw things at DSS & DSD then shouting ‘don’t you dare xyz’ when they retaliate in temper.

If 4 year old is throwing toys at DSC I can see why they get upset and angry. Your DH told his DS to stop and he listened. Your DS was not hit. I think you are making too much of it. Your son started it and it must be hard for SC to have to deal with your son's meltdowns all the time. Next time you pop out take your son shopping with you. Hard for Dad to deal with all 3 children when your son has meltdowns all time.

I'm taking your POV's on board.

Unfortunately I'm not able to take DS shopping with me, there's too much stimuli going on in supernarkets and he gets too overwhelmed.

Maybe try some of Ross Green’s collaborative problem solving with your DSS (and DSD) about what they can do instead when they feel themselves losing their temper with DS? Also agree with others that it would be good to limit access to things which can be thrown and hurt someone.

Strongly agree with the last couple of posts. You are making DS a victim when this is a totally commonplace scenario amongst siblings no matter how related they are. Having an issue with you husband not letting you criticise his kids shouldn’t impact your pereception of their behaviour.

I think you may be minimising the impact your DS's needs and behaviours have on his siblings. It's a big deal for their parent to remarry and have more children and then that must be even harder when that child has difficulties. I also don't think at 10 your DSS can truly have a good understanding of what DS having autism means. Certainly not to the level that you as his mum do. You see DS as vulnerable and more like a toddler than a 4 year old but DSS might not. He may be frustrated that he isn't able to have the same type of relationship with DS as he has with his sister or that he sees his friends having with their younger siblings.

I think you need to give all of you a break. It's bloody hard sometimes even without a child with special needs.

He’s ten. He lost his shit. It’s pretty normal behaviour for a ten year old but he cut it out when he was told to. You can’t expect ten year olds to react with the rational of adults. If he was 15 or sixteen is day otherwise but he’s not even out of primary school

I’m sorry op I think you are seeing this extremely simplistically. When you say your poor ds didn’t ask to be born you are completely right but neither did dss.

im sure it’s very difficult for you as an adult a mum to feel with ds meltdowns as you state they’re not nice not to watch.

So a 10 year old child who’s impulse control is no where near an adult yet who must be having sensory overload from the melt down then see there sister nearly hit with something he over reacted like most children do occasionally.

I’ve read the whole thread and no where does it say how dsd is as I think that might make a difference.

my sympathies op though it sounds stressful but I don’t think it’s anywhere near as bad as you feel at this minute.

When I was 10 and my sibling 4 I would have hit them too if they threw a toy at me. If your DSS doesn't routinely lash out violently I would have a chat with him about coping techniques etc and let it go.

I have 3 kids OP. The eldest is non-verbal, has severe learning disabilities and is autistic. His behaviour has been very challenging for a long time (requires 24 hour 2:1). It has been difficult for his siblings but they have always been understanding of his difficulties, although their feelings can be complicated (fear, worry for him, worry for us, worry for them, love, loyalty etc). . I think maybe the relationship is probably harder for step siblings who don’t live with you all the time and don’t have the same bond?

We did have to split ourselves a lot so one of us with ds1 and the other with the other 2. There were times when the younger two had to lock themselves away to be safe. You’re obviously no-where near that stage but maybe you do need a bit of two households going on when they are there.

i think the situation you describe is just one of those unfortunate situations where you couldn’t intervene with car throwing (my son wouldn’t have played with soft things so not sure keeping cars and their spinny wheels away would have done anything except trigger a crisis) & dss for whatever reason couldn’t cope. Whenever we have one of those ‘oh shit that happened’ moments we always stop and ask ‘what could we have done differently?’ Sometimes the answer is nothing. But sometimes we think of something that we could have changed. Maybe in your case it is something like not shopping/doing housework etc when they are all there so there is always 1 adult with hands free to intervene. So you supply that constant 1:1 supervision - for a while at least.

Does DSS have someone to talk to about his feelings about ds? If you have a reasonable relationship with his mum could she explore it with him? There are some good books - I remember one about a walk - aimed at younger children really but about exactly this situation, might be worth asking dss to read it to his sister or something so he gets the message without feeling patronised (I’ll Google it in a minute).

You keep using the word ‘assaulted’, as if you’re inferring that what DSS did was criminal.

Here’s the book www.amazon.co.uk/Ians-Walk-Laurie-Lears/dp/0807534811 Just realised you haven’t said the age of dsd so it might be too young for her. But it is a good book . There will be loads more sibling books now as well.

I understand how protective you feel about your son, but it is also important to consider how to teach dss to cope with situations like that. He is not your son but he will be in your life for a very long time and he needs caring for and teaching too.

DSD is quite a bit older than DSS but I will have a look at that book if you think it might help PP, thank you.

The replies have shocked me if I'm honest as I didn't expect it to be almost unanimous. I can see that the majority think I'm being unreasonable so I will have to have a look at where I'm going wrong and what I can do to change the way I view incidents like these.

I've just read through the replies. The two household thing is something I could apply. I actually suggested to OH last night that I'll take DS to see his grandma when they come round for the next few weeks to give them all a break from one another and he can delve into the jealousy thing and get to the bottom of whether its a thing.

I know you (understandably) feel protective of DS - but your OH is the father of both boys and will be feeling just as protective of his 10yo.

It can't be nice to sit there and watch one child get stuff thrown at them by another child - even if the younger child doesn't know any better.

I understand.

I don't condone the throwing, it's a maladaptive coping mechanism he resorts to when he gets overwhelmed. I'm trying hard to change it to the point I'm considering ABA therapy as all other methods have failed. My only reluctance is how adult autistics view ABA.

Not that it matters that much but DS wasn't throwing toys at his sister when all of this kicked off. He threw the toy indiscriminately and it just happened to land near her. He span around as he threw it so there was no intent to hit anybody.

Your making excuses for your son. It’s creating alienating behaviours in the older children. A four year old has limited control and particularly so if they have additional needs. It’s the parent’s responsibility to put those controls in place instead of creating an entitled victim.
Even children with SEN can be naughty, as well as having additional needs.

You wouldn't let him back in the house? But it's is home. Just because he's a step child, doesn't mean he doesn't live there, albeit part time. If it was a full sibling, what would you do? Have him taken into care for a while? Send him to relatives?