DSS (10) went to thump DS (4 and disabled)

[TemporaryChange1]

My DS can be incredibly challenging and you would never hear me pretend otherwise but what happened this evening has really upset me. DS is severely autistic, has LD's and suspected ADHD. His level of understanding is more comparable to a very young toddler.

DSC are round today. I left all of them with OH (father to all of them) whilst I nipped to the shop. DS began having a meltdown when I got home as he struggles with transitions and gets upset when people come in and out as he automatically wants to go outside himself.

As I come in DS begins crying and throwing himself on the floor. He threw one of his car toys which landed near DSD but not at her. It landed about a metre away from where she was sitting. DSS (10) jumped up, grabbed DS by the jumper and raised his fist ready to thump him in the face.

OH shouted for him to stop right there and don't you dare punch him, so he didn't, but he certainly intended to.

When DSS (10) went back to sit down DS (4) then threw another toy which landed near him this time. OH made DS apologise for throwing the toy. No apology forthcoming from DSS for going to thump DS.

Admittedly, DS is my weakness. I'm incredibly protective of him as he's just so vulnerable so I want to know whether you think I'm being unreasonable so be absolutely furious about this.

I got DS shoes on and took him out the house to the greenery down the road where we're now sitting.

A severely autistic child is disabled ffs.

I've had enough of this thread now it's utter lunacy.

So it's my fault DSS attacked DS and DS is not as disabled as I'm saying he is. Righto. I had better tell the local authority we no longer need that EHCP then, and DLA can stop the high rate care too.

Pissssss offfff.

A child who is non verbal and doubly incontinent is learning disabled. Take it from someone who had career of chute and a half decades teaching children like OP's son.

Autism isn't always a disability, but it can be, and in OP's son's case it clearly is.
I'm finding it incredible that people who've never met the child (Shah attends a special school) are diagnosing him to his own mother.

Shah? Who, ffs. I need to stop using Swype.

It's insane isn't it?

I can't believe what I'm hearing from other parents of children with special needs.

They are the very group that know more than most how

1. every autistic child is different

2. you cannot pre empt or intervene quick enough during every incident

3. we're all just doing our best.

Shame on those of you here, shame on you.

No, I will not piss off. I am fully entitled to comment and use this platform just as you are entitled to carry on with your utterly childish victim facade, instead of pulling your head out of your rear and giving your head a good wobble!

Using vulgar language and speaking to some of the members the way you have shows more about you than anyone who has dared to disagree, slightly challenge you or give an alternate perspective.

Now off you go, to carry on your little life.

But before I go, I will reiterate what I stated in my first post to you; it's your partners children that I feel for.

Righto. You have completely wasted your time, nobody cares.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I've RTT

Of course what DSS did was wrong.

What do you want to happen?

I think your DH needs to get control of himself more. He really is old enough to know better. Him being aggressive and shouting at you isn't a good thing for the kids to witness. They'll do the same thing.

I wanted DSS to apologise to DS the way he had to apologise to him, but that ship has probably sailed now.

Going forward I would like assurance that it won't happen again, and for DSS to tell us if he's struggling to be around DS and why so we can put measures in place to ensure he isn't affected by DS behaviour / meltdowns.

I agree about OH. It's completely unacceptable.

I'm sorry you're having a tough time OP, both with the incident and on here.

I'm glad to hear your DS is feeling better today.

There's a lot going on here but I would be focusing on the next steps.

I'd also take the half sibling thing out of it too.

If DSS was your DS too, what would you want to do with him after that?

For me, it'd be about working out whether it was an anger reaction, a misunderstanding/lack of understanding of DS's abilities or something 'leaking' over.

I'd then deal with that appropriately e.g. teaching more appropriate anger management techniques etc.

What wouldn't be helpful is separating him and his brother indefinitely. Perhaps more supervision is necessary or more cooperative activities might help?

I'm sorry you're facing this, hopefully it is a one off incident (which still doesn't make it okay!) which can develop into a teaching moment for DSS.

Good luck.

is DH on good terms with his ex? Can he chat with her and ask if DSS has said anything about his brother to her?

Of course I realise that every autistic child is different. I was trying to be helpful and I said it was sensitive.

The reason I asked is

(a) because at that point you had NOT provided specific details about his autism eg that he is almost non-verbal etc so there wasn’t anything to go on. You said he functioned at the age of a young toddler, which didn’t sound that he was very behind given he’s 4. You hadn’t mentioned his incontinence and in fact some 1.5-2 year olds are able to not be urinary incontinence.

(b) you were reacting to being asked about him throwing things at people or hitting in a way that seemed you were saying of course he doesn’t behave that badly as he’s not mean and we don’t let him. To be honest, it’s rather judging of other autistic children and their parents. My DS is regarded as high functioning, is extremely articulate and academically high-achieving and is much older than yours but threw something at me the other night when having a meltdown due to unexpected change, even though they know it’s wrong. It is awful but I have to tell myself it’s primal flight or fight behaviour driven by autism and they don’t behave like that at all normally.

My DS also hurts himself. I’m sorry your DSS does too. You must know that it is rare that a severely autistic child doesn’t hurt others albeit often unintentionally. Throwing things is very common, and you said yourself your DS does this, yet are seeming to minimise. The fact is your DSS could have hurt your SC because he threw the toy whilst spinning and not looking, it was just lucky it didn’t hit anyone.

My son is an adult. He is autistic (his first diagnosis aged 2) and has severe learning disabilities. He requires 24 hour 2:1 support provided by a team of carers.

So yeah autism can certainly be a severe disability.

All of this for sure

DSS needs to understand violence is not acceptable in any situation.

Both of you need to cut DSS some slack -he is still a child whose life for the past 3 yrs when he is with his DF is dominated by his younger sibling. He lost it after undoubtedly from what you have said OP a lot of provocation over a sustained period of time. To be constantly needled and have no ability to respond is frustrating for an adult let alone a 10 yr old child.

Siblings fight - my 2 did as they do with their half sibling. No special needs in any of them but the now 8 yr old has been able to wind up his elder siblings and knows he is doing it since an early age and yes they fight each other.

@saraclara Yes you're right that that a child who is non verbal and doubly incontinent is learning disabled. But it's a bit shitty of you to parrot this merely six minutes after the OP revealed this for the first time and to get on your high horse with posters who were, quite reasonably, going by the little info the OP had disclosed about her son's autistic traits. That's shooting fish in a barrel, particularly when the posters said they have autistic children themselves.

Or are you the type of SEND teacher who thinks they know better than the parents even though they've never had to parent 24/7 and deal with meltdowns at home without other staff to help. Because all SEN parents have met one of those.

You also undermine the credibility you're asserting by declaring that "autism isn't always a disability, but it can be". This is wrong. Legally, autism is a disability in the UK. Not every autistic person - or parent of an autistic person - identifies as disabled, but technically they are defined as such under law.

What I think you mean is that autism isn't always an intellectual disability. It's absolutely not always, but even someone autistic with a high intellect and capability qualifies as having a disability purely because they have autism.

How about you back off and leave her alone?

What do you think your hectoring will achieve?

Oh, FFS

What a ridiculous thing to say!

@HeddaGarbeld this is what OP said in her first post:

DS is severely autistic, has LD's and suspected ADHD. His level of understanding is more comparable to a very young toddler.

He's clearly disabled. He has a learning disability. That was my point when responding to posters saying he isn't.

It's odd that you're accusing ME of thinking I know better than the parent, given that I've been supporting OP throughout this thread, while everyone and his dog has been telling her that she's mistaken about his level of disability, knows nothing about parenting her child and is making a crap job of it. Even, and especially, other parents of children with special needs.

The OP did say that in her first post @saraclara but that isn't what you chose to reiterate and use proof as him being disabled, is it?

I explained above in detail why, going by what the OP was saying, I was questioning whether the boy is in fact 'severely' autistic going by my own experience of being a parent with an autistic child and the details the OP provided. This included her implying that her son was able to control his behaviour enough to not hit his siblings, which conflicts with the usual presentation of a child with severe autism and suspected ADHD. (THat is not a judgment, my own child with far less severe autism and diagnosed ADHD, albeit no LDs, hit and threw a fair bit when overwhelmed when young.)

I am not the poster who implied that the child is not disabled; it is clear he is disabled. If only because he is diagnosed autistic, although it's clear he has an intellectual disability too.

By lecturing us wrongly that autism isn't always a disability, you are inherently implying you know better than us all.

My daughter is very mildly autistic. She is not disabled by it at all.

Regardless, if she is diagnosed autistic then legally, she has a disability.

What do you mean by "very mildly autistic"?

Then how did she get a Dx if she’s so very mildly Autistic she isn’t remotely disabled by her disability? Unbelievable. You have your head in the sand.

Is it not obvious?

Sara, having much experience with autism and the different ways it presents, saw signs that indicated (I'm guessing what would formally be known as aspergers) and pursued a diagnosis to ensure her DD could access the correct support at a time she required it.

Aspergers isn’t used any more, so no. It’s far more likely that she just doesn’t accept the Dx in its entirety and the way it affects her child. I’m High Functioning, as is my child, and it absolutely is a disability. Parents who aren’t autistic, minimising it in this way, is harmful and offensive. Even HFAs have to have significant impairments in many areas from Neurotypicals to get the Dx.

The unpleasantness on this thread from some posters is appalling. Sorry you are getting such a hard time @TemporaryChange1.