DSS (10) went to thump DS (4 and disabled)

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My DS can be incredibly challenging and you would never hear me pretend otherwise but what happened this evening has really upset me. DS is severely autistic, has LD's and suspected ADHD. His level of understanding is more comparable to a very young toddler.

DSC are round today. I left all of them with OH (father to all of them) whilst I nipped to the shop. DS began having a meltdown when I got home as he struggles with transitions and gets upset when people come in and out as he automatically wants to go outside himself.

As I come in DS begins crying and throwing himself on the floor. He threw one of his car toys which landed near DSD but not at her. It landed about a metre away from where she was sitting. DSS (10) jumped up, grabbed DS by the jumper and raised his fist ready to thump him in the face.

OH shouted for him to stop right there and don't you dare punch him, so he didn't, but he certainly intended to.

When DSS (10) went back to sit down DS (4) then threw another toy which landed near him this time. OH made DS apologise for throwing the toy. No apology forthcoming from DSS for going to thump DS.

Admittedly, DS is my weakness. I'm incredibly protective of him as he's just so vulnerable so I want to know whether you think I'm being unreasonable so be absolutely furious about this.

I got DS shoes on and took him out the house to the greenery down the road where we're now sitting.

Does your stepson struggle with your Son and need some help managing it? I know he's so much bigger than your Son but he's still a child himself and might need help.

I think it sounds like a pretty typical squabble between children, parents were there to supervise and stepped in appropriately. I don't find forcing apologies is helpful, but dss does need to make amends in an appropriate way that means something to him and your ds.

You’re not overreacting OP.

Was he trying to protect his sister - as that kind of sounds like it. What normally happens when these things start

You arent overreacting and this is not acceptable but it clearly isnt working between the 3 of them - why didnt your OH step in as soon as the meltdown started - do you have a process by which they can leave the room or how to handle it

I asked him why he did it and he said he was trying to protect his sister, admirable to a very small degree i'm sure but not when you're the parent of the vulnerable 4yo 😔

With regards to what we do when things like this (meltdowns) starts, an adult takes DS out of the room into his quiet zone where he can get it out of his system safely. OH had the hot oven tray in his hands and I had two hands full of shopping so neither one of us was quick enough today.

I’m not trying to make excuses for him, but it sounds like your DSS finds your DS’s behaviour difficult to handle and might need some help with this? Has DS done something to hurt DSS or DSD before?

Irrespective of autism or ADHD, the older children should learn to be more tolerant of a 4-yr-olds behaviour. Young children get tired and stroppy. Your DSS overreacted and his dad should speak to him about that - teach him to leave the room or walk away if he's annoyed by the younger boy having a meltdown.

No DS has never hurt either of them before. When he throws things he's removed from the room. He has been hurt by DSS before though which DSS swears was an accident.

While dss did not respond correctly, I can see why he might find it difficult being patient with his brother all of the time. Does dss have a place that he can go to when he's angry? If this was the school playground then I could see this ending with a thump but not only is your son much smaller, he wasn't trying to hurt his sister which might be hard for dss to see as he's a child. I'm not excusing him but I can see how a sibling might get it wrong sometimes.

I imagine he must find DS' behaviour difficult to deal with yes, Lord knows I do and I'm his mother.

Also yes he has several areas he could move to if he was finding DS a bit much. I often encourage exactly that when a meltdown starts as ofc it's not nice to witness. DSS always opts to stay put and watch.

A 10 year old boy is still a child themselves, and siblings being physical with each other is not unusual. It doesn’t mean they’d behave that way anywhere else. Your dss clearly knows right from wrong because he stopped himself, and it didn’t come from nowhere. He was provoked and feeling protective of his sister, just like you feel protective over your son.

I’d let it go, but make sure you are providing opportunities for your dsd and dss to get some support with coping with a disabled sibling.

I do appreciate that at 10 he's still just a child himself, and I do appreciate the fact it must be incredibly challenging having a much younger sibling with additional needs. Putting myself in his position I'm sure I would have struggled with a sibling like DS too.

That being said, I don't think his age excuses the behaviour. At 10 I would never think of hitting a toddler which is essentially what DS is in terms of his size, understanding and abilities.

I am aware of my bias and tendency to be over protective of DS so I'm trying not to display my feelings outwardly and came here to vent and gather perspective so as not to make the situation worse and argue with OH about it.

Hi OP. I have a disabled child myself and have found Yvonne Newbold's workshops very helpful. She's running one online about siblings that might be of help to you.

newboldhope.simplero.com/page/249010-webinar-series

Thank you, I appreciate the pointer. I'll check out the link!

DSS is 10, yes old enough to know better but young enough not to easily control himself. Additionally you have to consider jealousy of your DS having ggeir DF all the time. A complex situation but you do hint that the DSS is nit well liked by you. DSS needs time with his DF one to one.

Jealousy in the sense that going to punch DS today potentially coming from a place of jealousy? I hadn't considered it. DSS says, and it seems to be the case, that he was just trying to defend his sister.

I do like DSS. I don't like him going to attack my 4 year old. You can dislike the behaviour without disliking the person.

I forgot to add, DSS gets ample 1-1 time with his dad.

10 year old shouting at 4 year old for throwing a car = acceptable
10 year old taking the 4 year old’s car away after being thrown = acceptable.
10 year old grabbing 4 year old by jumper and threatening a punch = unacceptable.
And a 10 year old would know this.
Yes a 4 year old having a meltdown is difficult but I assume your DSS knows his brother has difficulties? His learning difficulties and autism have been explained?
As the car landed quite far from his sister I’d doubt whether defending his sister was his reaction.
He was in the wrong and needs to understand this. I don’t think an apology or punishment are really necessary, but him understand that he cannot physically attack a smaller child is essential.

Thats exactly how I feel and see it too.

Yes he knows all about DS' autism etc, it was apparent from early on and he was diagnosed early compared to alot of children. We've always been very open with all family members about his condition and needs, nobody more so than DSC as we felt it important to make sure they understood him and why he can behave the way he does.

Me and OH have had a huge row. There was a bad atmosphere as soon as he got home from taking them back to their mums, he came in didn't speak to me then was banging about making it clear he's pissed off. I tried to speak to him and he just exploded at me. I know what it's all about he's feeling defensive.

I wouldn't allow dss back until I know for sure he understands how unacceptable this is. If your dh didn't stop him, then what?? He would have punched a severely disabled child? I would be absolutely furious enough to make a big issue about this. What happens next time, seems like he can't control his anger around your very vulnerable ds.

Do the older children have quality time with their father and without your son?

Apologies - I've just realised it's your young DS that's autistic, not your DSS 10, so the webinar on siblings might not be relevant. But her other webinars may be helpful with your little boy. Wishing you all the best, OP.

Must be frustrating for the older ones seeing the way your son behaves, and not being able to do anything about it.

Yes the older ones do have quality time with their father away from DS. They do their own activities that are for older and more able kids.

Of course it's not nice for them to see the way DS behaves but he's 4 and significantly disabled. He can't help how he is. He didn't ask to be born. It isn't his fault if jealousy Is a factor as PP suggested.

10yo DSS has no learning needs and knows right from wrong.

Anyway, even when in meltdown my DS has never grabbed any of them up and gone to punch them in the face. Not once.

He's 4. Tiny.

He didn't thump him did he? And throwing toys at people is dangerous. My ex-'s toddler threw a toy at my daughter's head and hit her in the eye (luckily without lasting effects). Take your son away from he is having meltdowns.